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Posted: 4/10/2006 6:51:30 AM EST
I find it interesting that they are making a huge deal about both these weapons, they claim that the 5.7 can penetrate 48 layers of kevlar and trauma plates, it can also penetrate soft body armor.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:52:10 AM EST
what about schools and teddy bears?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:53:42 AM EST
Yeah, THEIR 5.7's can. They get the real ammo.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:54:28 AM EST
What about the Carbon 15? Let me guess the muzzel flash from the pistol will set the neighborhood on fire and make your bullet proof vest itch.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:55:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By jmarkma:
What about the Carbon 15? Let me guess the muzzel flash from the pistol will set the neighborhood on fire and make your bullet proof vest itch.



nope passes through metal detectors undetected...much like the vaunted Glock 7.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:57:29 AM EST
5.7 & Carbon 15???

BOTH ARE GAY!
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:58:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By rob78:

Originally Posted By jmarkma:
What about the Carbon 15? Let me guess the muzzel flash from the pistol will set the neighborhood on fire and make your bullet proof vest itch.



nope passes through metal detectors undetected...much like the vaunted Glock 7.



No steel in the barrel or bolt carrier?

What a technological breakthrough!
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:58:49 AM EST
Tag to see the warning.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:01:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By rob78:

Originally Posted By jmarkma:
What about the Carbon 15? Let me guess the muzzel flash from the pistol will set the neighborhood on fire and make your bullet proof vest itch.



nope passes through metal detectors undetected...much like the vaunted Glock 7.



No steel in the barrel or bolt carrier?

What a technological breakthrough!



Fucking morons

10 to 1 the Brady bunch put this out, or gave the info to the LEO's who put this out. I bet they are lucky if they know which end the bullet comes out.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:04:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

No steel in the barrel or bolt carrier?

What a technological breakthrough!

and it sure can do a lot of damage with that empty thermold in the magwell
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:05:20 AM EST
Because we all know that Johnny Bluntsmoker finds a 5.7 or Carbon 15 in the wrinkled brown paper bag that he buys from Shady Bruh in the park when he goes gunshopping.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:05:25 AM EST
Amazing. I want the entirely synthetic AR
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:06:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 7:06:39 AM EST by mayday]

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
I find it interesting that they are making a huge deal about both these weapons, they claim that the 5.7 can penetrate 48 layers of kevlar and trauma plates, it can also penetrate soft body armor.



Good grief! A CARBINE [PS90] that shoots thru vest....oh no! Are these people serious? Most if not all carbines make swiss cheese out of street-vests. I have a shorty FAL just a little longer than a PS90 and it'll shoot thru just about any vest w/out a "crisat" plate [not sure if thats what they are called].
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:07:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By markm:
5.7 & Carbon 15???

BOTH ARE GAY!



+1
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:07:42 AM EST
Source? To whom are they sending these alerts?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:08:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 7:09:20 AM EST by rob78]

Originally Posted By Alien:
Because we all know that Johnny Bluntsmoker finds a 5.7 or Carbon 15 in the wrinkled brown paper bag that he buys from Shady Bruh in the park when he goes gunshopping.




according to markm, Johnny Bluntsmoker must've been pounding Shady Bruh's ringmeat, as only teh gays own the 5.7 or carbon 15


eta: I'm beginning to believe this as well
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:08:40 AM EST
I must have missed that safety bulletin.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:10:54 AM EST
It' just a matter of time before someone figured out you can buy pistols chambered for "Armor piercing" .223. One weapons ban bill I saw (Illinois?) banned pistols that could fire "Armor Piercing" rounds and the ammunition making it a felony to own ammo for your Mini 14.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:11:42 AM EST
Wait, I thought that a .50 BMG will also penetrate soft body armor. Oh yes, so does a run of the mill 7.62mm NATO, no? And how about the evil evil 5.56? Heck, any of the decent hunting rifle calibers will do you in if you get shot with them and are only wearing soft body armor. It's not like the .300 WSM magically doesn't penetrate a few layers of Kevlar, yeah? Lesson is: Don't get shot, or: Wear rifle plates (the .50 BMG will still do ya in there).
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:11:42 AM EST
Its just to help identify the guns, yah their BS to us who know what they are but some dont.. God forbid if their is multipile adversaries their might be certain weapons you wanna take out first..
It wasnt just about the two guns, it was for a bank robbery(?) suspect that was planning on taking out officers if he was caught, he had those two guns in his car..
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:17:29 AM EST
Didn't we hear about this over a year ago?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:32:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By VLODPG:
Didn't we hear about this over a year ago?



this one came out about 10 days ago, due to a shootout.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:34:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:40:23 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:43:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By VLODPG:
Didn't we hear about this over a year ago?



this one came out about 10 days ago, due to a shootout.



What shoot out, and what was used?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:44:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By ikor:
LE Intel guys send out stuff like this both internally and to other agencies all the time. Some of it is relevant and some is just put out so whoever sent it out can look like they are actually doing something.



And the thing is that when it is just "looking like they are doing something" some media outlet/VPC/anti politician will get their hands on it and run with the story.

I can see the news articles now, "Police have to face criminals with armor piercing weapons."

It will start something like this:


Several LEA across the nation are passing out warnings about guns that fire bullets that will easily penetrate body armor worn by police officers. These guns can be bought at any gun store and are readily available to anyone. Blah, blah, blah......throw in some VPC lies, cont.

With the expiration of the AW ban these guns, along with countless other high powered weapons, are no longer regulated and their demand is growing........





Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:53:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By rob78:

Originally Posted By jmarkma:
What about the Carbon 15? Let me guess the muzzel flash from the pistol will set the neighborhood on fire and make your bullet proof vest itch.



nope passes through metal detectors undetected...much like the vaunted Glock 7.



No steel in the barrel or bolt carrier?

What a technological breakthrough!



Uses non-metal casings, primers, and bullets as well.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:55:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 7:59:11 AM EST by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By Schulze:
Source? To whom are they sending these alerts?



Their officers.
Admin disseminates things like "watch out when pulling over Cars from ABC, they have hidden compartments that could be used to hide a gun"
Or "Be aware that there are now cell phone guns" etc, etc.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:57:55 AM EST
You guys do realize they put out these bulletins because the majority of cops do not all the different flavors of guns.

The ones I always found interesting were the pin guns, cigarette pack guns, pager guns etc...
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:05:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 8:13:05 AM EST by KCMojo]

Originally Posted By jmarkma:
What about the Carbon 15? Let me guess the muzzel flash from the pistol will set the neighborhood on fire and make your bullet proof vest itch.



There is more metal the Carbon 15 than in my CZ45. Hell I couldn't even get my jean jacket through the metal detector the other day due to the buttons.


Originally Posted By markm:

Edited for content, Too pathetic to actually respond to.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:18:48 AM EST
The Carbon-15 receiver won't even make it through a metal detector.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:26:46 AM EST
What happens if Rastus and Jorge shoot their Lorcin and / or Raven (sideways, of course since its more deadly) and the .380 ACP bisects the physical plane of the LEO's brain housing group?

Other than it probably being accidental, won't that have 'defeated' his (so-called) 'bullet-proof vest'?

Which also is defeated if the round penetrates the femoral, the profunda brachial, or brachial artery, isn't it?

Or if the round intersects any portion of the LEO's body not covered by the (so-called) 'bullet-proof vest' and causes a life-threatening wound?

Why isn't the Brady Center for Crying Wolf concerned that America's LEO are being deployed on the street with inadequate body armor?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:27:47 AM EST
Any of the LEO's here actually laid eyes on this warning?

Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:31:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:39:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:40:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By bmick325:
Any of the LEO's here actually laid eyes on this warning?




Nope, a link would be helpful. It's probably nothing more than a "wanted" flyer.

"Be on the lookout for Joe Crackbag, W/M 05/05/70, 69", 170lbs, Bro/Haz, driving a white 1999 Tahoe LP# 123-GYU, known to be in the area of Crackhead central."

"Known to be armed with: (fill in the blank) These weapons are capable of defeating officer's body armor"
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:52:56 AM EST
"The gun, the Five-SeveN handgun manufactured by FN Herstal of Belgium, is lightweight and easily concealable. IBPO Legislative Director Steve Lenkhart referred to the Five-Seven as "an assault rifle that fits in your pocket.""

WTF? that must be one hell of a pocket!
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:02:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Stryker_11A:
ATF News Release SS196 ammunition not armor piercing

Brady Campaign Propaganda Release



Yes, by the legal deifinition the SS196 ammo is not armor piercing.

By the definition of what it can actually do, it WILL penetrate soft armor worn by most LE.

It has to do with high velocity, and small frontal area, of the bullets.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:06:36 AM EST
What is more deadly to the average LEO? The Flint lock single shot or the Colt SAA?? It's obvious that the Saa is!! Why oh why in 1871 did'nt people stand up to this deadly weapon! Sure to bear firearms is in the constitution but it does'nt specify WHAT KIND! so let them eat single shot black powders!! think about how many Marshalls in Tombstone were killed when the "multiple round without reload" Evil Single action army flooded the markets! All the opium smokers and Coca leaf whores were going nutz baby! Nutz i tellz ya! Oh when will the madness end?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:10:39 AM EST
I've seen the same LEO Warnings. Some are informative and others are borderline retarded - warnings about, for example, obvious Title II weapons marketed AS Title II weapons. Idiots.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:21:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Stryker_11A:
ATF News Release SS196 ammunition not armor piercing

Brady Campaign Propaganda Release



Yes, by the legal deifinition the SS196 ammo is not armor piercing.

By the definition of what it can actually do, it WILL penetrate soft armor worn by most LE.

It has to do with high velocity, and small frontal area, of the bullets.


yeah but a .22lr with go through most soft armor
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:23:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By bmick325:
Any of the LEO's here actually laid eyes on this warning?



I have a copy of it somewhere.
I'll dig around, and post it if I can find it.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:31:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By RRA0211:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Stryker_11A:
ATF News Release SS196 ammunition not armor piercing

Brady Campaign Propaganda Release



Yes, by the legal deifinition the SS196 ammo is not armor piercing.

By the definition of what it can actually do, it WILL penetrate soft armor worn by most LE.

It has to do with high velocity, and small frontal area, of the bullets.


yeah but a .22lr with go through most soft armor



Yes, and no. Most .22 LR are so light, they lack the momentum to get through. Also the rounds are usually failry lightly consrtucted, and disintigrate rather than penetrate. But a certain percentage will manage to get through.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 10:16:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Stryker_11A:
ATF News Release SS196 ammunition not armor piercing

Brady Campaign Propaganda Release



Yes, by the legal deifinition the SS196 ammo is not armor piercing.

By the definition of what it can actually do, it WILL penetrate soft armor worn by most LE.

It has to do with high velocity, and small frontal area, of the bullets.



Isn't the legal definition the one that matters, or are we going to play 'spirit of the law, not the letter of the law'?

If it doesn't meet the LEGAL definition, so what? .243 will go right through LIII without any problems, but it isn't even considered AP....
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 11:05:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By markm:
5.7 & Carbon 15???

BOTH ARE GAY!



+87

I don't get the fascination. Although, if I had an endless supply of money to throw around I might pick up a 5.7 after everything else.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 12:05:31 PM EST
Warnings like this come from admin. cops who have kiss-ass important desk jobs, working in the office. They have to write memos so the brass keeps thinking they're geniuses. Some people write these memos just for the sake of wasting paper. Truth is, a LOT of things will penetrate soft body armor ($100 Tokarev comes to mind).

I'll write one for my department - "If the bad guy shoots you in the face, your vest is probably not going to help you - please distribute and brief"
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 2:24:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Stryker_11A:
ATF News Release SS196 ammunition not armor piercing

Brady Campaign Propaganda Release



Yes, by the legal deifinition the SS196 ammo is not armor piercing.

By the definition of what it can actually do, it WILL penetrate soft armor worn by most LE.

It has to do with high velocity, and small frontal area, of the bullets.



Isn't the legal definition the one that matters, or are we going to play 'spirit of the law, not the letter of the law'?

If it doesn't meet the LEGAL definition, so what? .243 will go right through LIII without any problems, but it isn't even considered AP....




Hey Skippy, take a few breaths before you post.

First, .243 is a RIFLE round, it's a straw man arguement.

Next, the LEGAL definition of AP, and what will penetrate a fortified target are not always the same. It's one of those things ya just have to live with.

Next, I'm sure .500 S+W, and a bunch of other handgun rounds will go through concealable body armor. It's one of those risks of living in a free society.

However, it would seem that the 5.7 will be sold more than any of the "exotic" handguns that can penetrate soft armor, .500 S+W .50 Desrt Eagle, etc. Plus the 5.7 has very little recoil, and 20 round mags. Making multiple hits in rapid succesion very possible, unlike the "exotics".

Getting misty because LEA's are sharing info about a potential threat LEO's may face is pretty whiney.

Getting it?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:52:47 PM EST
Oh the sky has fallen again.

This is now 492 times so far this year.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:56:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:02:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Stryker_11A:
ATF News Release SS196 ammunition not armor piercing

Brady Campaign Propaganda Release



Yes, by the legal deifinition the SS196 ammo is not armor piercing.

By the definition of what it can actually do, it WILL penetrate soft armor worn by most LE.

It has to do with high velocity, and small frontal area, of the bullets.



Isn't the legal definition the one that matters, or are we going to play 'spirit of the law, not the letter of the law'?

If it doesn't meet the LEGAL definition, so what? .243 will go right through LIII without any problems, but it isn't even considered AP....




Hey Skippy, take a few breaths before you post.

First, .243 is a RIFLE round, it's a straw man arguement.

Next, the LEGAL definition of AP, and what will penetrate a fortified target are not always the same. It's one of those things ya just have to live with.

Next, I'm sure .500 S+W, and a bunch of other handgun rounds will go through concealable body armor. It's one of those risks of living in a free society.

However, it would seem that the 5.7 will be sold more than any of the "exotic" handguns that can penetrate soft armor, .500 S+W .50 Desrt Eagle, etc. Plus the 5.7 has very little recoil, and 20 round mags. Making multiple hits in rapid succesion very possible, unlike the "exotics".

Getting misty because LEA's are sharing info about a potential threat LEO's may face is pretty whiney.

Getting it?



I loves me Desert Eagle...
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:08:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By VLODPG:
Didn't we hear about this over a year ago?



this one came out about 10 days ago, due to a shootout.



Any details on the shootout?
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