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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/15/2002 11:41:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2002 11:46:06 PM EDT by LAgunman2K]
oh no not another thread about religion that should get everyone hot under the collar. but what the hell its my 1st one. found this website that discusses the massive wealth acquired by the catholic church, upwards around 500 million in boston diochese alone (using 1973 data). and im curious as to what everyone thinks about this [url]http://www.chick.com/reading/books/153/153_10.asp[/url] ------heres a two paragraphs to give you a taste------- "The Vatican has large investments with the Rothschilds of Britain, France and America, with the Hambros Bank, with the Credit Suisse in London and Zurich. In the United States it has large investments with the Morgan Bank, the Chase-Manhattan Bank, the First National Bank of New York, the Bankers Trust Company, and others. The Vatican has billions of shares in the most powerful international corporations such as Gulf Oil, Shell, General Motors, Bethlehem Steel, General Electric, International Business Machines, T.W.A., etc. At a conservative estimate, these amount to more than 500 million dollars in the U.S.A. alone." "The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe. The pope, as the visible ruler of this immense amassment of wealth, is consequently the richest individual of the twentieth century. No one can realistically assess how much he is worth in terms of billions of dollars." -------now go to the link and read the rest-----------
Link Posted: 3/15/2002 11:50:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2002 11:54:14 PM EDT by Boom Stick]
Over half the U.S. is catholic, and none of them care that the "church" changed the 10 commandments, has a fortune of wealth, keeps their priests celibate (like a cult) contrary to the Bible, and thinks it can name the saints of God (ONLY God himself will do that).
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 12:01:33 AM EDT
Sorry i'm baptist. Sometimes I do bad though [:D], sorry!
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 4:11:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2002 4:12:02 AM EDT by Schnert]
The Vatican IS actually a country. They have financial assets. So what? The Church hasn't "changed" the Decalogue (Ten Commandments). Clerical celibacy isn't contrary to scripture. The pastoral epistles actually endorse it. And the Church recognizes that all who have been claimed by God in Baptism are saints. It's just that specific heroes of the faith are granted the title Saint out of respect for their life of witness and service. I'll rant about a lot of things at ar15.com, however I will not use these boards to defame another's faith. Please have some consideration. +No flame intended.+
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 4:29:57 AM EDT
I do question any religion that accumulates enormous wealth. I understand the Vatican built a new vault some years back because the old one was full. I also know the Catholic Church is the largest private land owner in New York City.... This is by no means an assault on anyone's faith! But we need to question the organizations of men, as we all know we are far from perfect, and need to evaluate even our best intents for sound policy. I myself believe strongly in the Word. The Word says to give your wealth to the poor and follow Christ. Here are some examples: ----------------------------------------------- M't:19:21: Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. M't:19:22: But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. M't:19:23: Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. M't:19:24: And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. ---------------------------------------------- M't:6:19: Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: M't:6:20: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: M't:6:21: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. ----------------------------------------------- [8D]
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 4:55:21 AM EDT
During the dark ages, when western culture completely disintegrated, the Church collected everything that was worthy and vouchesafed it in its monasteries. Literature, science and art were essentially preserved by the Church. This practice has continued to this day. Now, don't get me wrong, I will admit the excesses of the Church. In fact, they bother me too. However, the Church owns a lot of property that it uses for charitable purposes. For instance the biggest landowner in Wilmington, DE is the Diocese. Why? Well, they use their properties to house poor families. And Grock is correct, the Church - while instituted by Christ - is subject to sin. It pays to question the hierarchy. I'm just defending the Unam Sanctum.[:)]
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 5:27:20 AM EDT
[B]"The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe.[/B] So why is my priest soliciting extra donations to replace the roof of our church?
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 5:28:14 AM EDT
Look at the source of your information: Jack Chick, who is notorious for his hatred of all things Catholic. Let me call your attention to a couple of things. [url]www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp[/url] "The Death Cookie," referring to The Eucharist used in the Catholic Mass [url]www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0054/0054_01.asp[/url] "Holocaust," the Nazi slaughter of European Jews was apparently a Catholic enterprise. I'll bet Father Maximillian Kolbe feels stupid now. Find the source documents, don't take anything Jack Chick has to say at face value, please.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 2:09:03 PM EDT
Don't get me going... The catholic church is the ultimate hypocracy and has little or nothing to do with Christianity. Of course, neither do those ranting, raving bozos on TV that wear zoot suits and quote the Bible out of context while asking you to send them money.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 2:21:26 PM EDT
Relax, marvl. What, did a nun slap you or something?
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 2:45:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Browning: [B]"The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe.[/B] So why is my priest soliciting extra donations to replace the roof of our church?
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So they can remain so.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 2:54:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boom Stick: Over half the U.S. is catholic, and none of them care that the "church" changed the 10 commandments, has a fortune of wealth, keeps their priests celibate (like a cult) contrary to the Bible, and thinks it can name the saints of God (ONLY God himself will do that).
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Catholics make up well LESS then half the population of the USA. And we never changed the 10 commandments.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 2:57:54 PM EDT
I think Axl Rose said it best when he sang... "Most organized religions make a mockery of humanity and our governmemnts are dangerous and they're out of control" I don't think you need to pray in a multimillion dollar church, temple, whatever to be a person of genuine faith. Hell my grandmother was baptised in a creek. But if they want to take advantage of that seperation of church and state by all means more power to them. I wish I coud do the same at tax season[;)]
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 3:17:20 PM EDT
I'm totally disgusted with each and every one of you sinners...... But, just sent me 10% of your gross pay and I too will forgive you of all your sins and temptations... and that will make you a better person in the eyes of the Lord..... Can I get a witness!......
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 6:29:14 PM EDT
Relax, marvl. What, did a nun slap you or something?
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Nope, guess I just don't care for assholes.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 6:53:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boom Stick: Over half the U.S. is catholic, and none of them care that the "church" changed the 10 commandments, has a fortune of wealth, keeps their priests celibate (like a cult) contrary to the Bible, and thinks it can name the saints of God (ONLY God himself will do that).
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[rolleyes] Define cult. If you can come up with a definition I'd be happy to use your own definition to tear you a new asshole. And no, it doesn't bother me that the Church is wealthy. It does bother me that so much of the money donated here isn't used here, but that's another matter. The Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 7:13:20 PM EDT
Post from Schnert -
Clerical celibacy isn't contrary to scripture. The pastoral epistles actually endorse it.
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Well, St. Peter was married, wasn't he? And just where does St. Paul come down on the side of celibacy for preachers or ministers? Not that I'm looking for scriptural authority to leave Miz Hun, or anything![;)] Eric The(ButItCouldComeInHandy)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 7:16:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl:
Relax, marvl. What, did a nun slap you or something?
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Nope, guess I just don't care for assholes.
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Some of us here don't like your asshole comments.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 7:16:59 PM EDT
Yep, a nun slapped him.
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 7:23:46 PM EDT
The New Testament does not command that to serve the Kingdom you cannot marry. Its intent is to make one aware that to serve Christ completely you will do that better without the distractions of a family. But it also says that if your heart burns with passion it is better to marry than to risk commiting a sin. Lee
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 7:28:18 PM EDT
Hey, just thought of something. IF you do not have a Bible or do not know where the reference is to a subject in the Bible go to www.gospelcom.net/bible?
Link Posted: 3/16/2002 7:39:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Schnert: The Vatican IS actually a country. They have financial assets. So what? The Church hasn't "changed" the Decalogue (Ten Commandments). Clerical celibacy isn't contrary to scripture. The pastoral epistles actually endorse it. And the Church recognizes that all who have been claimed by God in Baptism are saints. It's just that specific heroes of the faith are granted the title Saint out of respect for their life of witness and service.
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Well said. And has already been stated, most of this "wealth" is in land ownerhip which consists of not only churches, but homes for the sick, poor, dying, homeless, starving, (ect.) all over the world. The Catholic Church does more to "feed the hungrey, shelters the homeless, cloth the naked, take care of the sick" (ect.) than all the 50,000 different Protestant denominations combined. This costs money last time I checke. Besides, Catholic Alan Keyes is the most pro Second Amendment candidate run for president in our lifetime.
Originally Posted By marvl: Nope, guess I just don't care for assholes.
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How than do you live with yourself?
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 4:31:14 AM EDT
Let me apologize. I did not mean to say I don't care for assholes. What I meant to say was I don't care for pedophiles and con men. How come I am constantly reading about the Catholic Church making multi-million dollar settlements to atone for some priest fondling an altar boy? Ever watch the Benny Hinn show?
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 5:15:51 AM EDT
no hope in the pope, protecting child molesters, is saying that child molesting is ok. those that molest children should be hung for all to see, and those that try to hide it should have the sh*t kicked out of them. this includes the pope, if he authorized the cover ups. if he did not, then he needs to clean house.
Link Posted: 3/17/2002 10:09:44 PM EDT
In defense of the men of the Catholic Cloth; even if the "church" is wealthy, the priests are not. I don't know what stipend they are given, but I sure it's a lot less than most would want to have to live on. There is no excessive lifestyle going on when it comes down to the priest/parish level. While I was raised my whole life in catholic school, I do realize that the church has it's problems.
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