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Posted: 9/3/2004 8:02:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 8:04:33 PM EST by The_Neutral_Observer]
As far as The Neutral Observer can tell, casualty rates among the membership is running pretty high due to the proliferation of these threads about the incident in Russia.

Why doesn't everyone sit back and take a break for a while?

Go spend time with your families or go have a few beers and go to a strip club. If you're on the East Coast, go to bed. Whichever is your preference.

Once everyone has calmed down, this tragedy can be re-examined and discussed in a more relaxed manner.

EDIT: The Neutral Observer doesn't want to see any of His friends depart the forums.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:08:26 PM EST
Ban em all and let god sort em out
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:09:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Neutral_Observer:
Once everyone has calmed down, this tragedy can be re-examined and discussed in a more relaxed manner.



Apparently there will be fewer of us to discuss it tomorrow. I don't know about you, but while I sit here with my wife and youngest son, I don't think I could discuss the murder of innocent children in a more relaxed manner. Not now, not ever. Just like I cannot talk about the people jumping out of the WTC in a more relaxed manner.

I won't attempt to intentionally anger any of the staff or mods, but I fear that it's not hard to do that right now. I just know that what I really feel about all of this would get me in trouble here. I know the reasoning behind the specific CoC rule that's being cited for the locking and bannings. No one wants this forum to look like a bunch of people bent on genocide. Gun owners already get a bad rap. Unfortunately, I think forcing people to keep this inside will only lead to something bad, but out of respect for the Avila family I won't go pissing in the sand box.

Goodnight folks. Hold your loved ones tight.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:18:27 PM EST
Some things are worth fighting for.
Go look at the pictures, take another look at the 9/11 pictures.
The anger is justified.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:20:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 8:20:52 PM EST by The_Neutral_Observer]
The anger is justified, but discipline and control it. Don't let the anger control you.

Play it cool.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:25:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:30:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Some things are worth fighting for.
Go look at the pictures, take another look at the 9/11 pictures.
The anger is justified.



"Fighting for"?? I'd bet the farm the biggest chest thumpers here would be the LAST to actually fight. The recruiting offices will reopen on Tuesday, 0800.



You may be right. But don't forget the Guardsmen and Reservists and the Active guys too. We glady go when called. (Guardsman here...)
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:31:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Neutral_Observer:

Once everyone has calmed down, this tragedy can be re-examined and discussed in a more relaxed manner.




WTF?!?!?!

You want to discuss the murder of dozens of children in a "more relaxed manner"
This ain't last weekends football game.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:31:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Some things are worth fighting for.
Go look at the pictures, take another look at the 9/11 pictures.
The anger is justified.



"Fighting for"?? I'd bet the farm the biggest chest thumpers here would be the LAST to actually fight. The recruiting offices will reopen on Tuesday, 0800.



Well, I served 30+ years ago, but if they would take my old fat ass, I would go in a minute. Nice insult from a mod.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:33:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:33:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Some things are worth fighting for.
Go look at the pictures, take another look at the 9/11 pictures.
The anger is justified.



"Fighting for"?? I'd bet the farm the biggest chest thumpers here would be the LAST to actually fight. The recruiting offices will reopen on Tuesday, 0800.



Is this considered "calling out " ???
Do those recruiters take 40 year olds with a bit of extra weight around the middle ??
If so, count me in.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:34:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By yobo:

Originally Posted By The_Neutral_Observer:

Once everyone has calmed down, this tragedy can be re-examined and discussed in a more relaxed manner.




WTF?!?!?!

You want to discuss the murder of dozens of children in a "more relaxed manner"
This ain't last weekends football game.




Don't let your anger control you. Keep a level head. You can be pissed off and calm at the same time.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:34:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Some things are worth fighting for.
Go look at the pictures, take another look at the 9/11 pictures.
The anger is justified.



"Fighting for"?? I'd bet the farm the biggest chest thumpers here would be the LAST to actually fight. The recruiting offices will reopen on Tuesday, 0800.



Is this considered "calling out " ???
Do those recruiters take 40 year olds with a bit of extra weight around the middle ??
If so, count me in.



Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:35:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Some things are worth fighting for.
Go look at the pictures, take another look at the 9/11 pictures.
The anger is justified.



"Fighting for"?? I'd bet the farm the biggest chest thumpers here would be the LAST to actually fight. The recruiting offices will reopen on Tuesday, 0800.



I did 6 years, if they would take my arthritic ass I will go.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:36:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 8:40:22 PM EST by thebeekeeper1]
<Removed. If you wish to remain on this site, DO NOT make posts like this!>
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:38:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:38:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 8:41:05 PM EST by thebeekeeper1]

Originally Posted By yobo:

Originally Posted By The_Neutral_Observer:

Originally Posted By yobo:

Originally Posted By The_Neutral_Observer:

Once everyone has calmed down, this tragedy can be re-examined and discussed in a more relaxed manner.




WTF?!?!?!

You want to discuss the murder of dozens of children in a "more relaxed manner"
This ain't last weekends football game.




Don't let your anger control you. Keep a level head. You can be pissed off and calm at the same time.



<Removed>



Come on man, you know about keeping your cool.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:11:39 PM EST
"Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink, I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn't drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver." - Jack Handy

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:28:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Neutral_Observer:
The anger is justified, but discipline and control it. Don't let the anger control you.

Play it cool.



Then go out to the mall or night club & get blown up by some scum member of the ROP on a "martyrdom operation". No thanks. These bastards deserve to die & THE WORLD should be furious with these vermin.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:40:30 PM EST
I myself took some time off from the arguments and watch Black Hawk Down (Not an upper for me... but I was distracted from Russia).


In all honesty, and NOT to incite any arguments or anger from the staff/mods, I am curious as to who was locked/banned.

Just wondering.

No biggie.

- BUCC_Guy
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:44:28 PM EST
I am willing to go to war, however, I will not do it on a bureucrats terms.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:56:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Guns_N_Shizzle:
Ban em all and let god sort em out



No Av, No Care.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:02:24 PM EST
I am calm as can be. I am mad as hell. But through all of that, I realize there are rules here. Therefore while I've made my feelings on this issue known in other threads, I haven't endorsed genocide, used racial or ethnic slurs, etc. I have simply tried to ask the "what if" type questions that make us think about our fight against terror. In the coming years we may be forced to do things that are typically thought of as un-American to ensure our survival. That is not because of Islam. It's not because of arabs. It's simply because a group of people wish to remove us from existence.

This is not something we asked for. This is not something we want. But yet we are faced with it anyway. And we may be forced to do some things we wish we wouldn't have to over the coming years. Tough decisions will have to be made. This isn't going to be easy. It's certainly not going to be pretty. And if we have discussions, ultimately many differing viewpoints will be presented. I don't think anyone is seeking to cause problems. I feel we all wish for the same outcome. We just have different views on how to get there. I hope we can find the correct soultion, whatever that may be, and put an end to terrorism once and for all.

In the meantime, I hope all our members can try as best as they can to abide by the rules. At the same time, I ask that the mods take into account the seriousness and nature of events witnessed over the last 24 hours. Consider many of those who are outraged are seeing their own children when they view pictures of the Russian victims. Please give this a day or two to simmer down before banning anyone. Afterall, I've noticed that many of the mods here are having just as tough a time dealing with the cold blooded killings of innocent children as the rest of us.

So let's all keep our heads about us ladies and gents and remember we are all on the same side here.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:48:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 10:53:12 PM EST by Dave_A]
For a rational, detatched look at the situation:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=270759&page=1

GodBlessTexas, and others...

It IS possible to discuss things in a 'more relaxed manner'. This is the essance of dealing with situations of this nature, that you look at it from a strategic/historical point of view, and don't focus on the individual dead, but rather on the implications of the battle and the conflict that spawned it, and what they mean for the broader world...

I understand it's disturbing - war IS disturbing and I'd be even more disturbed if it wasn't (that would be US becoming THEM).

However, there's nothing to be gained by a series of threads advocating genocide, or blaming an entire religeous group for the actions of what is in this case a secular movement which is prresently reinforced by religeously motivated foreigners. Especially given the history of this perticular war (Russian/Chechen civil war), and what said war has become.

The lesson to be learned from this is very plain: This sort of thing is what happens when you do exactly what it causes many to call for. 'Taking the gloves off' is what created the situation the Russians face today, where both sides are near equally barbaric (although the Chechens, by nature of resorting to terror, are the worse of the 2), and the entire situation has spun out of control. Both sides are now fighting merely to keep fighting, not fighting to win. When neither side cares to fight clean, this is what you get. Objectives? What objectives... It's become about revenge for both sides, control is gone, and with that you now have a 'personal' civil war - a blood feud - which is the hardest kind of war to win.

Of course, I may well be in 'the next one' (on my way into the Army now, if they accept my application), and I would hope that we (USA) continue to see war as a calculated, planned operation rather than a revenge-motivated blood feud.... You can win wars the way WE fight, you can get stuck in them forever the way THEY fight.

I'll take OUR way any day...
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 11:03:27 PM EST
If the Russians only had about 250 B-52D Big Belly bombers on hand, I think you'd see a rapid change in the Chechen will to fight. The Russians are willing to apply brute force, they are just going about it on a small scale. Going into a household and raping and torturing it's inhabitants is not going to work. But if they carpet-bombed all the villages one by one, pretty soon the enemy would either be dead or have nothing left to fight for.

BTW, I'm not saying that would be the correct course of action, just pointing out how brute force could win if properly applied (for the sake of discussion). I also realize many Chechens are decent people. Unlike most Arab countries who have terrorist problems, I actually saw some Chechen people on the news condemning the attacks launched by Chechen terrorists. They even seemed sincere.

Granted, I agree with most of your other points. While this Chechen/Russian war thing has been going on a long time and has been a civil war, I see it becoming more of a terrorist based fight. And the fact that quite a few Chechens are joining Al-Qaida and even at times coming to Iraq to fight us ( which has been documented) isn't helping me to feel all warm and fuzzy about them. It has also been rumored by people that are in a position to know, that Chechens are also here upon US soil plotting the same sort of shit against us. Other than the Al-Qaida connection, I see no reason why they would do so.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 11:18:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Some things are worth fighting for.
Go look at the pictures, take another look at the 9/11 pictures.
The anger is justified.



"Fighting for"?? I'd bet the farm the biggest chest thumpers here would be the LAST to actually fight. The recruiting offices will reopen on Tuesday, 0800.



Well, I served 30+ years ago, but if they would take my old fat ass, I would go in a minute. Nice insult from a mod.



+1 But it was 10 yrs.

TXL
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