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Posted: 11/1/2001 3:20:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Lost cause, let him get mugged after a church meeting one night, then he'll be a fanatic too...
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Posted: 11/1/2001 3:23:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Forgot to add...
I asked about what happens when you drive by someone getting robbed, beaten up etc. Said it wasn't their problem. They would turn away and it wasn't even their duty to call the police. Said you (talking about me but like I said before, I don't carry) must want to be a vigilante. I said, a police officer off duty carries. They said, it is their job to help while off duty or on duty. I said isn't it your duty to protect someone if you can? Nah, they said run away. Arrrg. |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 3:24:11 PM EDT
[#3]
I got held up
by a black feller with a G17 right outside of the Dairy Queen in Oceanside (you guessed it) California. |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 3:24:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Lost cause, let him get mugged after a church meeting one night, then he'll be a fanatic too... Probably true, but like they say, how often does that happen. The law of averages says it will probably NEVER happen to them. |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 3:25:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: I got held up by a black feller with a G17 right outside of the Dairy Queen in Oceanside (you guessed it) California. Daytime or night? <--That is their point. Saying at night they can see having a gun but not during the day or around your (safe neightborhood house.) |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 3:26:07 PM EDT
[#6]
"They" are what I call "What if players" You cant reason with them. They have an unlimited supply of "what if?" Give up, you have better things to do.
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Posted: 11/1/2001 3:28:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Of COURSE you are scared. Knowledge of the possibility of bodily harm, when you value your life, naturally triggers some level of fear response. However, your intellect is in control of your actions, because you refuse to be controlled by the situation. You have decided to proactively exercise control over situations which have a tendancy to rapidly degrade. If you decide to carry a first aid kit in your truck, does that mean you are scared of other people's blood, or catching AIDS? No, not even close. You are prepared, and you are cognizant of the risks and your personal power to influence the situation for the better.
You might be able to convince this person, but it looks like it is just another sheep moron who enjoys being powerless. Until that is addressed, that particular situation is hopeless. |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 3:28:40 PM EDT
[#8]
If they think that makes someone a fanatic, bring them out to my place next time :). You may want to tell them to bring an extra pair of underwear!!
You're not going to be able to win this arguement statistically - they're right. You're chances of being robbed are manageable (depending on where you live). You'll "probably" be robbed once in your life. You'll also "probably" have one car accident during your life (statistically-speaking). Therefore, there's no point in wearing a seatbelt. Well, wait a minute - you're likely to die if you don't wear a seatbelt and have a significant accident?!? I guess in that case the consequence of not doing that are so extreme, you're willing to do so even though the likelihood of you needing it are very slim??? Hmmm. Sounds like something I would say about my sidearms. Just my FANATICAL perspective :) Black Fox |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 3:31:24 PM EDT
[#9]
I have been a fanatic for 9 years then.
I had the same conversation with someone once not to long ago. I asked if they had car insurance. They said yes. I asked if they would have it if it wasnt required by the law? Again yes. I asked why? Are you planning on hitting someone? Are you planning on having a wreck? Are you planning on your car getting stolen? Do you drive that recklessly? Are you that paranoid that someone will hit you? That is an awful lot of money your are throwing away if not. They said "No of course not" to all the questions. I asked why would/do you pay those outrageous insurance rates then? They said they would/do have it just in case something happens. I said hmmm, kinda like my carrying a gun gun huh. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. The question has never been brought up again. |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 3:33:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Eternal Vigilance is why you carry 24/7.
Criminals don't make appointments. Cops aren't your personal bodyguards. 3rd party intervention is why you carry 24/7. (extreme caution and discretion advised on this one) If you've told this other person you carry 24/7, I'd advise them to use discretion and keep that information to themselves. If they should ever ask about firearms again, I'd deny any knowledge and walk away from them. Be polite, don't try and change this guys mind, he's out of it. |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 3:51:26 PM EDT
[#11]
good argument hawkeye
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Posted: 11/1/2001 3:56:56 PM EDT
[#12]
I know I for one would not carry my pistol all the time if the criminals would be nice enough to pencil their activies on my calendar, since they don't, I carry it all the time.
The guy sounds like a dick. Better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it. |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 3:59:46 PM EDT
[#13]
I am scared of boogie men
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Posted: 11/1/2001 4:35:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Next time this happens pull your own piece put it to thier head and say I bet you wish you had one with you now.
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Posted: 11/1/2001 4:44:55 PM EDT
[#15]
No matter what I say they keep bringing up FANATIC. Then that person must not know the definition of "fanatic": marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion Fanatics aren't motivated by fear; in fact, they're more likely to be [i]fearless[/i]. |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 5:00:57 PM EDT
[#16]
I carry in church cause the preacher does too!
"Thou Shalt Not Murder" has a flip side and that is "Thou Shalt Preserve Life" Start by preserving your own! Didn't some scumbag barge into a church a few years back and kill a few folks? He should have chosen my church.......we would have had him in a crossfire. Half my church congregation is "packing" at any given time during service! Anyone who doesn't like it can kiss my buttocks! |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 5:29:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Their calling someone who carries a fanatic is their opinion, not worth a damn.
Saying that they could see the need at some point during the day to carry is this right if they want to or don't want to carry. It is your right to carry 24/7 if you want too. The moment they say it is not your right to carry 24/7 then their is a problem. Call me a 'fanatic' all you want, that is your prerogative, the moment you say I don't have the right to be a 'fanatic' you have a problem with me. |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 5:34:22 PM EDT
[#18]
I started carrying everyday (except on campus) after the shootings at Wedgwood Church in Ft. Worth. I had been invited to go that night, but I needed to study at a friend's for a test. One girl, whom I had known since middle school, was killed. If only 1 person had been armed, it could have been averted. Now I carry when I go to church. I carry anywhere. Hopefully, I will never have to be that 1 person.
Here's to Kimberly Jones. [:(] |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 5:44:02 PM EDT
[#19]
"I use my gun the same number of times I've used my fire detector, my smoke detector, my fire insurance, my earthquake insurance. Which is to say, never. And always." — Clarence Martinelli, 70-year-old school crossing guard and racial unity activist, as told to the Los Angeles Times.
[b]Hawkeye1[/b] has it right. This sounds like the kind of guy who only believes in putting a battery in his smoke detector 5 minutes before his house catches on fire. |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 5:49:15 PM EDT
[#20]
Some good arguments posted...
Said that they could see themselves carrying in situations where a gun might be needed... If you think there might be a situation where a gun might be needed, then... * call 911 * avoid that situation as if your life depended on it If one were to intentionally carry a gun to a situation where they thought "a gun might be needed" and for whatever reason ended up using that firearm, they could possibly be tried for murder in the first degree. A sidearm is defensive. A sidearm is a last resort. Your conversation friend has false logic based upon a false premise which would not only get them or others killed, but could also be illegal. Lemme guess...they'd probably also "shoot to injure" like in the leg or something (again illegal in many states to do intentionally). And it also appears that the basis of their argument is name-calling. Yup...a real rocket-scientist you got there. |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 6:03:48 PM EDT
[#21]
A "shrink" reminded me one time that ; I was an adult and could choose not to argue. Sometimes I even remember. She was so smart. Stay safe
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Posted: 11/1/2001 6:16:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Forget arguing with this guy- he's a fatalist, and a self-centered dick, to boot. How would he feel if his wife or daughter was being raped, and some other citizen walked by who could have stopped it, but decided it was 'not his problem'?
I'm with Brouhaha- one person with a gun who knows how to use it could have prevented a whole lot of ugly situations in this country. I carry everywhere I go on the off chance I end up in one of those situations. Beside the fact that I'm a cop and have a responsibility to act, I think that as a citizen I have a responsibility to defend myself, my family, and anyone else I see being brutalized. Your buddy is obviously out of touch with reality if he thinks he's only in danger of being victimized at night in a bad area of town. The arguments relating carrying a gun to wearing a seatbelt and having car insurance are right on- there's no difference. You do both of those things because accidents happen unexpectedly. If you knew when you were scheduled to have one, you'd find somewhere else to be!!!! People who can't understand that refuse to do so because they don't see carrying a handgun for protection as a rational act, and those are the people you just can't convince. 7, I think you oughta re-evaluate how much this person's opinion matters to you! |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 6:45:30 PM EDT
[#23]
Use the Lubey's (sp?) restaurant story. You'd think a family restaurant in the middle of the day would be a place where you don't need to be carrying. This was the catalyst for the Texas CCW law.
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Posted: 11/1/2001 7:01:58 PM EDT
[#24]
Fanatic is a compliment. I.E My wife is a fanatic about cleaning. See good thing. I am a fanatic about personal safety, I carry a gun everywhere. Good thing
See its just interpretation.^ |
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Posted: 11/1/2001 7:09:26 PM EDT
[#25]
Yea, well... I guess I'm a fanatic then.
The same as I'm paranoid because I have homeowners insurance, auto insurance, medical insurance, wear my seat belt, ect, ect. If you knew when something bad was going to happen, you wouldn't be there in the first place. |
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Posted: 11/2/2001 12:57:57 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Use the Lubey's (sp?) restaurant story. You'd think a family restaurant in the middle of the day would be a place where you don't need to be carrying. This was the catalyst for the Texas CCW law. True, and then there was the guy who shot a bunch of people in a church in Texas. That was the catalyst to get the prohibition removed for carrying in church. In fact, it used the be the law in some towns that the menfolks were REQUIRED to carry a gun in church. That pretty much put a halt to robberies in church. |
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Posted: 11/2/2001 3:55:25 AM EDT
[#27]
SO........we could be live F-A-N-A-T-I-C-S.........or dead...IFs.........hhmmmmm......[argue]...[kill]
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Posted: 11/2/2001 5:52:14 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: True, and then there was the guy who shot a bunch of people in a church in Texas. That was the catalyst to get the prohibition removed for carrying in church. In fact, it used the be the law in some towns that the menfolks were REQUIRED to carry a gun in church. That pretty much put a halt to robberies in church. See my post on page 1 about that. |
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Posted: 11/2/2001 5:56:19 AM EDT
[#29]
I carry everywhere I can, even carry to bed.
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Posted: 11/2/2001 6:07:58 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Next time this happens pull your own piece put it to thier head and say I bet you wish you had one with you now. [b]ROLLING ON THE FLOOR LAUGHING MY ASS OFF!!![/b] |
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Posted: 11/2/2001 6:12:00 AM EDT
[#31]
I carry at work and I'm at work more than home.
I carry when off of work whenever we go somewhere. Where legal, that is. |
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Posted: 11/2/2001 5:24:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Ask the person if they think it it might be possible that they would ever be a victim of a violent crime. Studies show that being victimized by criminals is an event which is likely to occur at one point or another in most of our lives. Then ask them if they might want someone to intervene on their behalf at that point - a cop, whatever. Point out that as in most crimes, it's unlikely that a cop would be present. Explain that it is much safer to resist a criminal if you are using a firearm instead of using bare hands - that's why police carry firearms.
Then point out that there's no damn way you're going to risk your unarmed ass to help him out, but if you happen to be packing at the time then you might consider it slightly less burdensome to render assistance to the less than grateful hoplophobe. [rolleyes] |
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Posted: 11/2/2001 5:32:18 PM EDT
[#33]
I don't know if fanatic fits but definitely gunnut.
7 you don't carry that nice Sig with you? I wouldn't bothering arguing with this type person. One day he will probably relize to late that he needed his gun but decided to leave it home. My theory is once you start to carry a gun, Murphy's Law would dictate that the day you decided not to bring it, would be the day you needed it. [uzi] |
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Posted: 11/2/2001 5:43:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: 7 you don't carry that nice Sig with you? lol. Nope. Never had a need. [;)] ha. I work in DC so no guns allowed. Just never thought about it until I got more into guns these past few years. I'll probably eventually.... dunno. Maybe do some open carrying first. [:D] Btw, shot the sig and 92f today. Beautiful day in Northern VA. |
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Posted: 11/2/2001 7:24:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Sounds like this person just needs a little convincing. I would not give up, if you have a chance to talk about it every once and a while you can win [i]him[/i] over. I forgot to bring over More Guns, Less Crime to let you read, got to remember that next time. I think that will give you some extra statistical ammo. [;)]
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Posted: 11/2/2001 8:06:23 PM EDT
[#36]
Carrying a gun is prudent, like washing your hands to reduce the risk of infection.
Or steering clear of strange dogs. Or buying insurance. I never intend to crash my motorcycle, but when I ride it I always wear armoured leathers and a helmet. I don't intend to fall down stairs and break my neck, but sometimes I hold on to the railing just in case. Only question to ask this loser "If you are not prepared to take responsibility for preserving your own life, why would you expect a stranger, like a policeman, to risk his to protect you?" And point out that it is a crime against God not to safeguard the life He bestowed on him. If he is not religious, point out that evolution requires that he survive to procreate, but if he is such a fatalist it is perhaps better that he exit the gene pool anyway. "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"- A General Introduction to Psychoanalysis by Sigmund Freud. |
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Posted: 11/2/2001 8:28:14 PM EDT
[#37]
I carry so that i can kill that boogieman b@stard if I see him?
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Posted: 11/2/2001 8:35:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Next time you see them say,
FANATIC!!!!! come here and say it to my face punk! May just work[:D] |
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Posted: 11/2/2001 8:36:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Guess I am a fanatic.
I have never had to draw but have had to slide my hand into my shirt, thumb the snap and begin to ease the weapon out - remained 1/2 way out during the whole conversation with 2 dirt balls on foot that had me boxed in while I was in my car (one at my rolled down window - summer time, and one in front of the car) The guy in front of the car realized that my hand was inside my shirt got smart and tapped his buddy on the shoulder - suddenly they decided to leave. Let alone the number of times some dipshit in traffic wanted to prove themselves. The cell phone is the best, but back up is nice. 2 weeks ago I did the good samaritan thing - I watched some asshole slam into a guy on the freeway at 75 miles an hour - road rage. Fortunately no one crashed. I was the only one who pulled over to be a witness. You bet your ass I was armed. I prefer not to think of being a fanatic as a bad thing. I am willing to responsibility for my own safety. Stay safe, have fun. |
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Posted: 11/2/2001 9:49:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: I carry in church cause the preacher does too! "Thou Shalt Not Murder" has a flip side and that is "Thou Shalt Preserve Life" Start by preserving your own! Didn't some scumbag barge into a church a few years back and kill a few folks? He should have chosen my church.......we would have had him in a crossfire. Half my church congregation is "packing" at any given time during service! Anyone who doesn't like it can kiss my buttocks! Mine too, I thought my church was the only one. I know at least 10 people other than myself that pack in my church on any given sunday. One of their wives mentioned to me the other day that if something ever went down during the service, she was hitting the deck because bullets would be flying. Heck yeah. |
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Posted: 11/2/2001 11:01:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Twice someone has tried to rob me, both times I was very lucky the first time was in Columbas, GA I was 22 and invanable or so I thought, I drew fired and hit with my .38 before he could respond with his .380, The second time I was unarmed and in Munich Germany, Just as I was
approched by two guys with a hammer who demmanded "gield", my squad walked up behind me. It can happen anyplace anytime. 24/7 , well no, the shotgun is beside the bed if I'm not sleeping....well you know. In the Backyard, the .44 is on my hip under the jacket, in public, the .44 is kind of large so the .357 has to do. It is my job to protect my wife and chrildren, anything less would be cowardly. My wife both expects this and deserves it. Am I afried? Well yes, I am afried I might fail to protect my loved ones, but it will darn sure not be because I was unarmed and did not try. BTW I don't feel invanable anymore, but I can still, draw, fire and hit with a Double action Revolver in less that 1/3 a second. No brag just fact:) |
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