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Posted: 1/21/2009 6:50:24 PM EST
I generally get about 28-30 MPG during the winter, or about 400miles a tank full.

It is around 250, and it is about 1/4 tank right now. I'll fill probably on Saturday, I'll have a better idea as to what the MPG is then.

I don't warm up my car that long (maybe 2-3 minutes max).

My check engine light came on Saturday, and stayed on until Monday morning. I called the garage, they said they couldn't do anything until it came back on.

Had a major service back in December, (120K service), so it is not due for that.

2000 Toyota Celica


UPDATE:

Reason for decreased MPG/check engine light was the air flow meter was dirty as hell.

The guy said, there is a small (but he said very, very unlikely) that I might need a new cadillac converter. Which will run around 2K ()

But he highly doubts it.

Thanks again.
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 2:09:09 AM EST
If your check engine light is on any auto parts store will pull that code for you, and pretty much most stores will do this for free.  Some scanners can still pull the code even though the sytem reset itself.  (It is still stored in the memory).

Should've had it checked out when the light was on.
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 4:02:48 AM EST
like justin said go to a parts store and use their code reader to find out whats wrong. there simple to use and most places will help you out with it.

possible o2 sensor on the frtiz?
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 5:21:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 5:29:33 AM EST
Check the thermostat.  They usually fail *open*  so the engine never gets up to proper operating temperature.  Do you have an actual temp gauge or just an idiot light?
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 6:15:31 AM EST
Check tire pressure weekly and more often if there are major temperature changes that week.

Four low tires will cost you lots of MPGs not to mention excelerated treadwear
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 8:19:18 AM EST
Winter blend gas sucks ass for fuel milage in my car.

Cold and dry air also require the car to use more fuel.

Beyond that if you've had a CEL something is probably wrong with the car. O2 sensor?

-JTP
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 11:25:58 AM EST
Quoted:
I generally get about 28-30 MPG during the winter, or about 400miles a tank full.

It is around 250, and it is about 1/4 tank right now. I'll fill probably on Saturday, I'll have a better idea as to what the MPG is then.

I don't warm up my car that long (maybe 2-3 minutes max).

My check engine light came on Saturday, and stayed on until Monday morning. I called the garage, they said they couldn't do anything until it came back on.

Had a major service back in December, (120K service), so it is not due for that.

2000 Toyota Celica


Sounds like not too far off typical winter weather mileage drop. Tires slip a lot from stops? Drive a lot slower due to weather? Your engine isn't as efficient in the cold, and drawing cold (more dense) air is going to cause more gas to be used per same volume of air. Also consider winter blend, all the extra time you take to warm up the car, etc etc.

Go get the CEL checked. Could also be something as simple as a sensor that is causing you to run rich.
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 3:45:16 PM EST
Quoted:
I generally get about 28-30 MPG during the winter, or about 400miles a tank full.

It is around 250, and it is about 1/4 tank right now. I'll fill probably on Saturday, I'll have a better idea as to what the MPG is then.

I don't warm up my car that long (maybe 2-3 minutes max).

My check engine light came on Saturday, and stayed on until Monday morning. I called the garage, they said they couldn't do anything until it came back on.

Had a major service back in December, (120K service), so it is not due for that.

2000 Toyota Celica


first compare mpg to how much fuel you started with,one of the most common situations ive encountered with loss of mpg situations,is alot of folks dont realize the fuel capacity has also dropped, due to topping off repeatedly and over saturating the charcoal canister.

the second even modern fuel gauges cannot be trusted,monitor your fuel usage via the trip ODO.

easy stuff first.

Link Posted: 1/22/2009 4:25:07 PM EST
Quoted:
Quoted:
I generally get about 28-30 MPG during the winter, or about 400miles a tank full.

It is around 250, and it is about 1/4 tank right now. I'll fill probably on Saturday, I'll have a better idea as to what the MPG is then.

I don't warm up my car that long (maybe 2-3 minutes max).

My check engine light came on Saturday, and stayed on until Monday morning. I called the garage, they said they couldn't do anything until it came back on.

Had a major service back in December, (120K service), so it is not due for that.

2000 Toyota Celica


Sounds like not too far off typical winter weather mileage drop. Tires slip a lot from stops? Drive a lot slower due to weather? Your engine isn't as efficient in the cold, and drawing cold (more dense) air is going to cause more gas to be used per same volume of air. Also consider winter blend, all the extra time you take to warm up the car, etc etc.

Go get the CEL checked. Could also be something as simple as a sensor that is causing you to run rich.



All this besides the poorer mileage you get due to the Ethanol in the Gas.....
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 5:52:30 PM EST
Quoted:
If your check engine light is on any auto parts store will pull that code for you, and pretty much most stores will do this for free.  Some scanners can still pull the code even though the sytem reset itself.  (It is still stored in the memory).

Should've had it checked out when the light was on.


No one was open on Sunday.

Link Posted: 1/22/2009 5:53:25 PM EST
Quoted:
Well, you need to start with finding out why the check engine light is on, and correcting that.

Also, check the little things in regards to your fuel mileage.  Is your tire pressure set to specs?  Alignment?  Air filter clean?  Did you replace the fuel filter at the 120K service?  What about the plugs, were those checked and/or replaced at 120K?


Tire pressure is good. Alignment is good.

I'll have to check the air filter/fuel filter on the bill.
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 5:53:42 PM EST
Quoted:
Check the thermostat.  They usually fail *open*  so the engine never gets up to proper operating temperature.  Do you have an actual temp gauge or just an idiot light?


I have a digital temp gauge.
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 5:55:31 PM EST
It'll be the winter fuel mix and you'll probably code a bad O2 sensor also.
Link Posted: 1/22/2009 5:55:38 PM EST
Quoted:
Quoted:
I generally get about 28-30 MPG during the winter, or about 400miles a tank full.

It is around 250, and it is about 1/4 tank right now. I'll fill probably on Saturday, I'll have a better idea as to what the MPG is then.

I don't warm up my car that long (maybe 2-3 minutes max).

My check engine light came on Saturday, and stayed on until Monday morning. I called the garage, they said they couldn't do anything until it came back on.

Had a major service back in December, (120K service), so it is not due for that.

2000 Toyota Celica


first compare mpg to how much fuel you started with,one of the most common situations ive encountered with loss of mpg situations,is alot of folks dont realize the fuel capacity has also dropped, due to topping off repeatedly and over saturating the charcoal canister.

the second even modern fuel gauges cannot be trusted,monitor your fuel usage via the trip ODO.

easy stuff first.



That is what I do.

Mileage on ODO divided by how much gas I put in.
Link Posted: 1/23/2009 7:52:11 AM EST
My S-10 went down to 24 mpg from 28. I guessing its just the winter cold and the gas blend.
Link Posted: 1/23/2009 7:58:06 AM EST
Probably the mass air flow sensor.  Same symptoms on both my 2000 Focus and my aunt's 2000 Echo at various times. On the Focus it stumbled at idle at times until it was fixed and 10-15% mileage was sacrificed.  

The Focus is well over 180k miles for the Ford haters btw.  
Link Posted: 1/23/2009 6:29:28 PM EST
The low gas indicator came on at 320 miles. First time that has ever happened.

Dropped it off tonight for a evaluation tomorrow.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 10:43:26 AM EST
btt.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 10:48:44 AM EST
A cat is NOT 2K unless someone has a boat payment due. Even the OEM one I installed only cost a couple hundred for the actual cat and all related parts.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 10:51:31 AM EST
Quoted:
A cat is NOT 2K unless someone has a boat payment due. Even the OEM one I installed only cost a couple hundred for the actual cat and all related parts.


I'll keep that in mind if the time comes around.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 10:53:16 AM EST
I've seen many catalysts that cost $2K.  Nothing new for me, and I don't own a boat.

Link Posted: 1/24/2009 10:55:01 AM EST
Quoted:
A cat is NOT 2K unless someone has a boat payment due. Even the OEM one I installed only cost a couple hundred for the actual cat and all related parts.


Cats are cheap.  Labor to install it/them is not(*).  The average garage even around here charges 60-80/hr, and once rusted exhaust bolts start snapping, parts price and time only goes up.

(*)Unless you DIY.  
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 10:57:10 AM EST
Quoted:
Quoted:
A cat is NOT 2K unless someone has a boat payment due. Even the OEM one I installed only cost a couple hundred for the actual cat and all related parts.


Cats are cheap.  Labor to install it/them is not(*).  The average garage even around here charges 60-80/hr, and once rusted exhaust bolts start snapping, parts price and time only goes up.

(*)Unless you DIY.  


My BIL is a mechanic, maybe I'll bribe em with a couple bottles of liquor and a few cases of beer.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 11:00:39 AM EST
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A cat is NOT 2K unless someone has a boat payment due. Even the OEM one I installed only cost a couple hundred for the actual cat and all related parts.


Cats are cheap.  Labor to install it/them is not(*).  The average garage even around here charges 60-80/hr, and once rusted exhaust bolts start snapping, parts price and time only goes up.

(*)Unless you DIY.  


My BIL is a mechanic, maybe I'll bribe em with a couple bottles of liquor and a few cases of beer.


That's usually all it takes to get me crawling around next to the jackstands.  
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 11:13:22 AM EST
A bad gas cap destroyed my mileage and caused my check engine light to pop on. Read the code at autozone. Bought new cap. All good.

-Foxxz
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 12:40:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 12:51:24 PM EST
Quoted:
Quoted:
A cat is NOT 2K unless someone has a boat payment due. Even the OEM one I installed only cost a couple hundred for the actual cat and all related parts.


It depends on the car, but $2K for an OEM catalyst isn't that unusual.



Yep, 2k is alot of money but not alot for a cat. One of the reasons they are stolen so often.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 1:22:20 PM EST
You can buy the converter for $250 and have it installed for not much more.  Dealer ripping you a new one.  Pretty normal though.
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 1:58:27 PM EST
Quoted:

UPDATE:

Reason for decreased MPG/check engine light was the air flow meter was dirty as hell.

The guy said, there is a small (but he said very, very unlikely) that I might need a new cadillac converter. Which will run around 2K ()

But he highly doubts it.

Thanks again.



It will cost more than 2K to convert your Toyota into a Cadillac....    Sorry, I had to...
Link Posted: 1/24/2009 2:22:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 7:41:22 AM EST
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can buy the converter for $250 and have it intalled for not much more.  Dealer ripping you a new one.  Pretty normal though.


You get what you pay for.


Take his advice and spend the $2K.  He's the expert here.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 6:36:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/26/2009 3:43:56 AM EST


Exhaust manifold for the GT or GTS is only $155 from Toyotapartsales.com so not likely.    Assuming this diagram is correct cat replacement should be relatively easy, cheap, and can be done at any exhaust shop.

Bill3508
Link Posted: 1/26/2009 3:47:20 AM EST
I'd go aftermarket on the cat converter.  It's not like the vehicle still has that new car smell, and warrants OEM parts, IMO.
Link Posted: 1/26/2009 3:56:40 AM EST
...
Link Posted: 1/26/2009 4:00:26 AM EST
Quoted:
Quoted:

UPDATE:

Reason for decreased MPG/check engine light was the air flow meter was dirty as hell.

The guy said, there is a small (but he said very, very unlikely) that I might need a new cadillac converter. Which will run around 2K ()

But he highly doubts it.

Thanks again.



It will cost more than 2K to convert your Toyota into a Cadillac....    Sorry, I had to...
Beat me to it.

Link Posted: 1/26/2009 4:21:16 AM EST
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can buy the converter for $250 and have it intalled for not much more.  Dealer ripping you a new one.  Pretty normal though.


You get what you pay for.



Thats true but the OEM [same company] one I bought for the Sonoma recently, while about $50 more then the genaric one, wasn't even close to a couple grand. [did the work myself so no labor costs]

OTOH, Japanese vehicles tend to be MUCH more expensive to fix partwise over US branded vehicles even if the actual part is made in the USA. It's something that those who have owned both Japanese and US branded vehicles figure out very quickly.
Link Posted: 1/26/2009 4:22:41 AM EST
Quoted:
Quoted:
A cat is NOT 2K unless someone has a boat payment due. Even the OEM one I installed only cost a couple hundred for the actual cat and all related parts.


It depends on the car, but $2K for an OEM catalyst isn't that unusual.


Even Jaguar Cats and RR cats don't run much more then that for the setup. This is a TOYOTA.

Link Posted: 1/26/2009 9:54:03 AM EST
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A cat is NOT 2K unless someone has a boat payment due. Even the OEM one I installed only cost a couple hundred for the actual cat and all related parts.


It depends on the car, but $2K for an OEM catalyst isn't that unusual.


Even Jaguar Cats and RR cats don't run much more then that for the setup. This is a TOYOTA.



A cat for an AM General HUMMER runs about $1,400-$1,600.  Took me and a buddy about 2 hours to remove the old and install a replacement test-pipe on both his and mine.  We also each soaked the hardware in PB Blaster beforehand (I did about 4 sprays during the week prior to removal to make it easier and so I wouldn't break any bolts).

Hardware removal can be done by one person, but there was some pushing and pulling to pull the old pipe out and having a second set of hands made it much easier.  It would be damn tough for one person (on ours anyways).

It is entirely possible the $2,000 estimate includes cat + labor.  Of course, I don't know pricing on Toyota parts, but I would normally just guess that the quote the OP received may have been high, but it wasn't crazy unbelievable.  OP, see if you can get a breakdown of the $2,000 estimate.
Link Posted: 1/26/2009 10:48:20 AM EST
Quoted:

The Focus is well over 180k miles for the Ford haters btw.  


And had to have how many repairs?
Link Posted: 1/26/2009 1:58:39 PM EST
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A cat is NOT 2K unless someone has a boat payment due. Even the OEM one I installed only cost a couple hundred for the actual cat and all related parts.


It depends on the car, but $2K for an OEM catalyst isn't that unusual.


Even Jaguar Cats and RR cats don't run much more then that for the setup. This is a TOYOTA.



A cat for an AM General HUMMER runs about $1,400-$1,600.  Took me and a buddy about 2 hours to remove the old and install a replacement test-pipe on both his and mine.  We also each soaked the hardware in PB Blaster beforehand (I did about 4 sprays during the week prior to removal to make it easier and so I wouldn't break any bolts).

Hardware removal can be done by one person, but there was some pushing and pulling to pull the old pipe out and having a second set of hands made it much easier.  It would be damn tough for one person (on ours anyways).

It is entirely possible the $2,000 estimate includes cat + labor.  Of course, I don't know pricing on Toyota parts, but I would normally just guess that the quote the OP received may have been high, but it wasn't crazy unbelievable.  OP, see if you can get a breakdown of the $2,000 estimate.


Yeah, but his car isn't worth much more than $2K and cats for it can be had for under $200.  Magnaflow, Eastman(super cheap $78 direct replacement), etc.  If I had to spend $2K on this car it would be better spent purchasing something newer.
Link Posted: 1/26/2009 2:36:58 PM EST
The part # for the converter you need is 17410-22070, dealer list price as of today (1/26/09) is $1104.74. So unless he is charging you $895 to put it on, he is jacking the list price way up.

Aftermarket ones can be had for much less, bosal makes quality exhaust parts that I have used in the past, and never had a problem with.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 4:43:11 AM EST
Quoted:
I generally get about 28-30 MPG during the winter, or about 400miles a tank full.

It is around 250, and it is about 1/4 tank right now. I'll fill probably on Saturday, I'll have a better idea as to what the MPG is then.

I don't warm up my car that long (maybe 2-3 minutes max).

My check engine light came on Saturday, and stayed on until Monday morning. I called the garage, they said they couldn't do anything until it came back on.

Had a major service back in December, (120K service), so it is not due for that.

2000 Toyota Celica


UPDATE:

Reason for decreased MPG/check engine light was the air flow meter was dirty as hell.

The guy said, there is a small (but he said very, very unlikely) that I might need a new cadillac converter. Which will run around 2K ()

But he highly doubts it.

Thanks again.


$2k for a converter Bullshit. take it to a muffler shop and have them weld/bolt in a generic replacement. You can get them online for about $100-200.  You could be out the door for $300.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 11:36:25 AM EST
Quoted:
The part # for the converter you need is 17410-22070, dealer list price as of today (1/26/09) is $1104.74. So unless he is charging you $895 to put it on, he is jacking the list price way up.

Aftermarket ones can be had for much less, bosal makes quality exhaust parts that I have used in the past, and never had a problem with.


As of right now (*knocks wood*), it was just really clogged inside.

I am at a 3/4 tank right now, and my mileage for this tank is around 120. Huge improvement then before.

The guy said if the light comes back on in the next couple days, that it is probably the converter.

So far, so good.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 12:31:50 PM EST
Drive the car for a while.  

If you do need catylic converters look into Direct Fit Replacement parts.  These are aftermarket parts that are designed to replace the OEM parts but are not universal fit.

From the picture posted earlier it looks like there is a pre-cat and a main cat.  The first one could be bad and not the main cat.

A good independant shop should be able to do it.  Ask your friends,  neighbors,  or co-workers who they go to.  Word of mouth is good advertising for a good honest shop.  Customers will bad mouth a shop at the drop of a hat but don't appreciate a good shop

Too much fuel will overheat a converter but it takes a while.  Another thing that can happen is the material in the converter will break up and rattle or in some cases plug up the exhaust.
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