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Posted: 1/7/2005 7:18:07 PM EDT
Bought a new car yesterday and after we agreed on price it took a couple of hours to get my car detailed, go through all the paperwork and deal with the gauntlet of people trying to sell me extra shit, extended warranties, etc. Anyway, the business manager called last night to tell me about the error. I let the answering machine deal with it as I didn't really want to talk to them anymore. We spent almost 5 hours there yesterday.
Well, my wife picked up on his call today and he told her what is going on. He knows they can't force the issue but would like the $500.

What do you guys think?
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:19:27 PM EDT
If you signed a piece of paper stating that if an error is made by either party it will have to be resolved, if not enjoy the mistake.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:19:54 PM EDT
Well, what kind of error was it? A math error is alot different than them wanting to have charged you more than they did for something.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:21:32 PM EDT
FU#$EM
Your money
They would screw U if they got the chance get even for the rest of us
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:22:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 8:08:16 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:24:05 PM EDT
#1

If you signed the papework and have the car... tough shit for them.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:24:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PeteCO:
Well, what kind of error was it? A math error is alot different than them wanting to have charged you more than they did for something.



A math error of sorts on their part.
They had a list price on the car with rebates, loyalty discount, etc. When they did the numbers that wasn't on their but they had the invoice price, all the rebates subtracted with taxes, my trade-in, etc. Otherwise I would've picked up on it. I do remember saying that the numbers didn't quite look right but they insisted they were and the total was about what I expected after all the pluses and minuses.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:24:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 7:40:14 PM EDT by nightstalker]
It's a done deal. Tell them NO Just like the David Spade commercial....

ETA For all you know it merely means they didn't make as much as they were supposed to on the deal (maybe verbally one guy claimed they were making $1500 but it was only $1000 and now he's eatin sh#t from the manager or owner) , not that it wasn't a deal they hadn't made before and liked. Really you're in no position to pass judgement on what's a good deal for THEM, just what's a good deal for YOU. Now if you had all the information and agreed for them to make a certain amount of money on the deal and it was a math error I might say talk to them but we all know buyers are privy to all the facts on what a car cost and what all the incentives are.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:25:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By PeteCO:
Well, what kind of error was it? A math error is alot different than them wanting to have charged you more than they did for something.



A math error of sorts on their part.
They had a list price on the car with rebates, loyalty discount, etc. When they did the numbers that wasn't on their but they had the invoice price, all the rebates subtracted with taxes, my trade-in, etc. Otherwise I would've picked up on it. I do remember saying that the numbers didn't quite look right but they insisted they were and the total was about what I expected after all the pluses and minuses.




If you asked 'em about it, and they insisted the numbers were right......


enjoy your $500 savings.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:26:29 PM EDT
Tell them they can have the car back too, if they insist on the $500
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:26:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
I think if I owed $500 I would pay it--but I'd make them show me clearly why I owed it. I'm funny that way--I know integrity is out of style, but I go to sleep <30 seconds after my head hits the pillow.



+1 I would pay if I owed them the money, but you did sign a contract. If the contract price shows you don't owe them the $500, you aren't obligated to pay.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:27:12 PM EDT
probably paying games, it's known as spotting a car. Did you trade in your old one? If so, your old one is no where to be seen, now they're try to threaten you with the new car being stolen if you don't pony up the $500 and bingo, you're out 2 cars in a row. I say fuck 'em. I bought a new truck May 2003 and had financing from my credit union, they tried to do the extended warranty stuff on it, but no dice. I was out in 45 minutes.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:28:06 PM EDT
If you and the dealer agreed to a price than there is no error. I'll bet all sales are approved by a sales manager. A car salesman once told me when I asked him why all the foolishness salesmanagers try to pull on customer and he said, "These people around here have been lying to everyone for so long they don't know what the truth is."
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:29:57 PM EDT
funny, when they double billed me on the shipping charge they did not want to return my 500 bucks the following day.

the karmic car deal wheel spins it to you this time

buy yerself an upper
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:30:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:31:13 PM EDT
What does the final signed contract say?

If it's really their money , do you really need to ask? What price is YOUR honor worth?
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:31:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Tell them they can have the car back too, if they insist on the $500



They can't insist on anything and it's my car. I like it!
They know they have no legal standing to go after the $500 and even said so but are appealing to my sense of honesty....

Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:31:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By doc_Zox:
funny, when they double billed me on the shipping charge they did not want to return my 500 bucks the following day.

the karmic car deal wheel spins it to you this time

buy yerself an upper



+1, the business manager can take it from the salesdroid or whoever made the mistake's pay
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:32:48 PM EDT
I think they will eat the $500 to keep your loyalty when you buy another car. I think if you ignore them some more they will stop calling you. They know they dont have a case but they are fishing just in case they can get you to return the money. Leave it alone and it will go away. This has nothing to do with your integrity or honor. Business is business, both parties agreed to a price and the documents signed. End of story.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:33:49 PM EDT
What kind of car? I can see you in an Aveo or Festiva.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:34:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DigDug:
Dealing with car salesmen is bullsh!t. The way I do it is tell them exactly what I want to pay to drive the car off the lot, including taxes and everything. They can do their little numbers games, and if they screw up tough crap. I will write out a check for $xxxxx. Do we have a deal of not. They usually scurry over to the sales managers office and crunch number and say yes or no. Rebates are bullsh!t. Factory discounts are bullsh!t. I don't care. How much is the damn car. [/rant]




I got a sweet deal. Been at this for awhile and have bought plenty of cars. I doubt I could've beat this price anywhere else.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:34:20 PM EDT
No, a deal's a deal.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:36:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
What does the final signed contract say?

If it's really their money , do you really need to ask? What price is YOUR honor worth?



Final contract is for the amount I paid( about 60% ) plus what I financed.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:36:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:36:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By PeteCO:
Well, what kind of error was it? A math error is alot different than them wanting to have charged you more than they did for something.



A math error of sorts on their part.
They had a list price on the car with rebates, loyalty discount, etc. When they did the numbers that wasn't on their but they had the invoice price, all the rebates subtracted with taxes, my trade-in, etc. Otherwise I would've picked up on it. I do remember saying that the numbers didn't quite look right but they insisted they were and the total was about what I expected after all the pluses and minuses.



They screw enough people with BS charges that they deserve to lose the $500, IMHO. The only reason they made the "math error" was because of all the nonsense charges on the invoice to begin with.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:38:11 PM EDT

I do remember saying that the numbers didn't quite look right but they insisted they were

That changes things. You pointed it out to them, and I would mention that to them the next time you talk to them. I'd still return the money, but you already did the right thing.z
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:39:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
I think they will eat the $500 to keep your loyalty when you buy another car. I think if you ignore them some more they will stop calling you. They know they dont have a case but they are fishing just in case they can get you to return the money. Leave it alone and it will go away. This has nothing to do with your integrity or honor. Business is business, both parties agreed to a price and the documents signed. End of story.



We bought a new Trailblazer there last year. Got an even sweeter deal on that (38K vehicle for 27K).
They know we'll be back and I would expect to buy another new vehicle in about 2 years.

I bought a loaded Grand Prix to replace the 2000 Grand Prix I traded.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:40:01 PM EDT
Another thing to consider is warranty service. I feel you're entitled to the $500, but will it cause significant trouble when you go in for warranty work? If they put your name on "the list", you could be in for major hassles there. Maybe enough hassles to justify giving them the money.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:42:14 PM EDT

Happened to me. I went to pick
up a car once after a dealership
bought out a lease. I called a
couple of days later and asked
when would I get a check for my
deposit (on the lease). The
woman said that it was applied
to the outstanding balance (aka
the ass-raping part of the lease
- never again). I made an appt.
to speak to her and she showed
me a piece of paper with some
figures on it. "See, right there it
is." I turned the paper around
and asked her: "Show me where
I signed this?" The look on her
face was priceless.

They cut me the check for $500
on the spot. She left me a nasty
voice mail later that day.


Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:42:21 PM EDT
Probably comes out of the Sales Manager's cut. Mistakes are costly. If they signed, tough.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:43:07 PM EDT
Too bad for them. now their profit margin on the sale was 99.9% instead of 100%
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:46:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DigDug:
Dealing with car salesmen is bullsh!t. The way I do it is tell them exactly what I want to pay to drive the car off the lot, including taxes and everything. They can do their little numbers games, and if they screw up tough crap. I will write out a check for $xxxxx. Do we have a deal of not. They usually scurry over to the sales managers office and crunch number and say yes or no. Rebates are bullsh!t. Factory discounts are bullsh!t. I don't care. How much is the damn car. [/rant]





That ain't no bullshit. I ALWAYS ask them te 'Out the door' price. When they give me a figure, I write a check out for that amount and watch them start to hem and haw about taxes.

WTF is so hard about the concept of wanting to know this: How much money is it going to cast me to take the car home?

I once had a sales manager tell me that the OTD price was, and when he quoted the price, I said 'Done" and started to write a check. You should have heard the chaos THAT started!

He started to B...b...but...there's tax and title.....

I asked for an OUT THE DOOR PRICE AND YOU GAVE ME A PRICE AND I AGREED! WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM!



This was NOT in one of those cubicles, but on the showroom floor on a busy Saturday morning.


I HATE those bastards. This is one place where honesty and integrity has NO PLACE WHATSOEVER!!!!


PERIOD!


­Those people would not let you know if the error was in THEIR favor, so just be grateful that it's your turn.

When you enter a car dealership, you are entering a den of thieves.

Act accordingly.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:48:06 PM EDT
I was once in a similar situation. I'd recommend if you decide to pay, to get them to give you something you want....maybe some accessory that costs them a fraction of what they charge for it, like custom mats or whatever hits your fancy. If you don't like that idea, maybe a half dozen free oil filter changes.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:50:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
What does the final signed contract say?

If it's really their money , do you really need to ask? What price is YOUR honor worth?



Final contract is for the amount I paid( about 60% ) plus what I financed.



Review the contract and see if the mistake is reflected, if the numbers were all entered correctly and the math done wrong, they may have the right to enforce the contract with addition error corrected. Depending on the state the contract might be faulty.

However, if they entered the wrong number , based on their incorrect additions off the sheet, etc, then they are going to have to eat it (in many states), as the "experts" in making the contracts, if they made the contract and all you did was sign the papers they prepared, in most jurisdictions. It's their fault and they have to eat it.

Sounds like legally you can keep it, ethically too.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:53:41 PM EDT
Your contract dictates what you must do. Your signature (and theirs) has force of contract law. Check for the clause mentioned earlier re: resolution of errors. Whatever it says, you have agreed to do.

CWO
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:54:04 PM EDT
Wasn't there a story about a National Guardsman in NY who got a 500 buck rebate because the auto dealer thought he was active duty? They were giving rebates to active duty personnel only. He told them he was NG but they overlooked it. They went to court and won. He has to pay it back.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:02:09 PM EDT
And what on earth is this "loyalty discount"? They're just jacking up the price to take it right back off.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:07:26 PM EDT
screw em i=f ya can, they would screw you.( And probably have. )
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:11:44 PM EDT
I sold cars at a dealership for 4 years. I never recall ever having this sort of situation come up.

Sometimes the deal wasn't as good as we had thought because there were hidden defects in the trade in, but we were supposed to catch that sort of stuff, being in the business and all.

There was a minimum of 4 people processing the paperwork, sometimes more. The customer is all by himself, no one to check his paperwork and make sure he is getting all he is supposed to get. The dealer knows every line on the contract, most buyers don't bother to read the whole contract.

If this were to happen to me, my first response would be "You are not serious, are you?" And if they wanted to void the contract, and were going to push it, I would gladly void the contract. They would have my trade in and a cashiers check for my down payment waiting when I took the car back and tore up the contract.

That is not the only car like it, and no matter how good the deal (even with a $500 "mistake") It can be beat by $100 with 30 minutes work, more if you enjoy the "game".

Bottom line, void the contract and get your trade and money in back, be professional and pleasant about it, but be firm.

My guess is they will write it off.

Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:12:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

However, if they entered the wrong number , based on their incorrect additions off the sheet, etc, then they are going to have to eat it (in many states), as the "experts" in making the contracts, if they made the contract and all you did was sign the papers they prepared, in most jurisdictions. It's their fault and they have to eat it.




That is what happened. They made an error on the sheet with respect to the total slae price on the car. If they hadn't try to be cute with these numbers I doubt this would have ever happened.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:16:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-wrench:


My guess is they will write it off.




They already told my wife they will. Their mistake, their problem but they would still like the $500.

I want to do what is right but am on the fence about this one.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:17:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-wrench:
I sold cars at a dealership for 4 years. I never recall ever having this sort of situation come up.

Sometimes the deal wasn't as good as we had thought because there were hidden defects in the trade in, but we were supposed to catch that sort of stuff, being in the business and all.

There was a minimum of 4 people processing the paperwork, sometimes more. The customer is all by himself, no one to check his paperwork and make sure he is getting all he is supposed to get. The dealer knows every line on the contract, most buyers don't bother to read the whole contract.

If this were to happen to me, my first response would be "You are not serious, are you?" And if they wanted to void the contract, and were going to push it, I would gladly void the contract. They would have my trade in and a cashiers check for my down payment waiting when I took the car back and tore up the contract.

That is not the only car like it, and no matter how good the deal (even with a $500 "mistake") It can be beat by $100 with 30 minutes work, more if you enjoy the "game".
Bottom line, void the contract and get your trade and money in back, be professional and pleasant about it, but be firm.

My guess is they will write it off.




Do Tell. How exactly DOES one get the bottom dollar?

Sorry for the hijack but this might be too valuable to pass up.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:18:04 PM EDT
You have already purchased multiple vehicles from this dealership. They have your loyalty, so let them throw you a bone. Just take it!
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:20:14 PM EDT
If you feel bad, offer to split it with them, that is a well used ploy in the business. 99% of the time it is to get more money out of the customer. That is a language they will understand.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:22:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rocky9_5:
screw em i=f ya can, they would screw you.( And probably have. )



Probably.
They have sure tried. When I bought my Grand Prix in 2000(different place) I was going to pay cash and we agreed on a price. Transferred money and came back to pick up my car and write the check. They tried to hide $1500 they added into the numbers. I had a few choice words for them and walked on the deal. Bought somewhere else. A couple of their sales people have tried to get my business back but I'll never buy a car from them and they know it.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:26:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DefMan:
Wasn't there a story about a National Guardsman in NY who got a 500 buck rebate because the auto dealer thought he was active duty? They were giving rebates to active duty personnel only. He told them he was NG but they overlooked it. They went to court and won. He has to pay it back.



Now that's patriotism! Fuckers.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:26:47 PM EDT
You signed, they signed. Done deal. Tell 'em to piss up a rope.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:27:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
They made an error on the sheet with respect to the total slae price on the car. If they hadn't try to be cute with these numbers I doubt this would have ever happened.



That's my point. If they didn't juggle numbers so much trying to rip off customers, it wouldn't have ever happened. Fuck 'em.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:30:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nascar3n8fan:



Do Tell. How exactly DOES one get the bottom dollar?

Sorry for the hijack but this might be too valuable to pass up.



I don't want to hijack the thread either, but basically there is no "Bottom dollar". Many factors come into play. Popularity of the car. Popularity of the trade in. Cash flow issues at the dealership. Financing. Time of year.

And personalities of all those involved in the negotiations.

Do your homework and know what the vehicle is worth.

Best advice, If you aren't prepared to walk if your price isn't met, you are not in a strong bargaining position.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:30:49 PM EDT
Your rights and obligations are completely defined by the written contract. It defines your position legally, ethically, and morally. They are entitled to what's on paper and nothing more. If the paper says they are entitled to nothing, next time they try to shake you down, say "I have the number of a lawyer who specializes in Civil Theft and Unfair Debt Collection Practices. Apparently you'd like to talk to him. I'll give him your number," and hang up.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:43:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-wrench:


Do your homework and know what the vehicle is worth.

Best advice, If you aren't prepared to walk if your price isn't met, you are not in a strong bargaining position.



That really is the bottom line in my experience and I've walked on far more vehicles than I have bought and ALWAYS get what I want for how much I am willing to pay. This is the first time I purchased the first vehicle I looked at.
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