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Posted: 8/28/2004 2:30:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 2:34:33 AM EST by 82ndAbn]
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 2:45:00 AM EST
. . . . does this actually suprise anyone ?
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 3:24:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 3:28:22 AM EST
Of course we do!…… but we all spy on the French! ECHELON is your English Speaking Spies friend

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 3:31:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 3:50:50 AM EST
Count me as unsurprised.

This relationship is not an alliance, it's them taking whatever we'll give them, and giving nothing back in return.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:18:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 7:20:09 AM EST by vito113]
Nothing to worry about here…

It's been reported here that he was passing US information about IRAN back to Israel……

"FBI probes Israeli spy at Pentagon claim

5.00PM, Sat Aug 28 2004

The FBI is investigating a Pentagon analyst suspected of being an Israeli spy, US government sources said.

The analyst is suspected of passing secret documents about Iran to the Jewish state.

The officials said the analyst was connected to Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's office and is suspected of passing the documents to Israel via the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the powerful pro-Israel lobby in Washington."



This could be a good thing if Israel is looking for strategic data… say for a strike on Irans nuclear facilities?

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:21:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 7:22:33 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:27:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:27:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 7:30:11 AM EST by kingfish]

Originally Posted By vito113:
Nothing to worry about here…

It's been reported here that he was passing US information about IRAN back to Israel……

"FBI probes Israeli spy at Pentagon claim

5.00PM, Sat Aug 28 2004

The FBI is investigating a Pentagon analyst suspected of being an Israeli spy, US government sources said.

The analyst is suspected of passing secret documents about Iran to the Jewish state.

The officials said the analyst was connected to Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's office and is suspected of passing the documents to Israel via the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the powerful pro-Israel lobby in Washington."



This could be a good thing if Israel is looking for strategic data… say for a strike on Irans nuclear facilities?

ANdy



NO. Its a bad thing. Israel has been influencing the US to do their fighting. Brilliant on their end. No Israeli blood spilled in Iraq, the guy who paid suicide bombers is gone and they get free oil. Absolutely Brilliant! Their next target is Iran.

Has anyone here ever wondered why IRAQ was at the top of the list instead of NORTH KOREA? Lets not forget that North Korea continually threatenes to rain down missles on New York. They already have the missles to attack Japan and South Korea. And they are boasting that they have a nuke. YET THEY WERE NOT HIGH ENOUGH ON THE LIST. ????? WTF!!!! Thats because they were NO threat to Israel.
Israel has been running US policy for a while. Traditional Republicans, like myself, are even staying clear of the NEOCONS.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:29:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
isn't the first time. won't be the last. Sometimes i'd swear our allies spy on us more than our enemies.

mike



Allies.


When will people learn the US has NO allies.

Leeches and opportunists, maybe. But no allies.

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:30:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:35:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:36:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:40:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 7:43:37 AM EST by garandman]

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Um, how is the Israeli guy the problem here?? We have a traitorous prick working in the Pentagon passing our information to a foreign national. Was the Israeli guy supposed to refuse it??



Uhh, YES.....an "ally" would.

And then he would report the leak to the Pentagon.


A REAL ally would.

An opportunist would do EXACTLY as Israel did.



Our stance regarding Iran GREATLY affects the future of Israel. Of COURSE they would want this information. The bastard who passed the information should be shot as a traitor. When/why did that go out of style??


Trule allies do things against their own interest sometimes - like removing Saddam from power, as the SINGLE largest and most immediate beneficiary of doing so is Israel. (which is not to say removing Saddam didn;t have long term benefits for the US - it did.)

Takes two to tango. Shoot the Pentagon leak, shoot the Israeli spy. (this of course assumes this story has ANY legs at all. I'm talking hypothetically, should the story be proven true)

I don't really care who gets shot first.

If you don't have the balls to shoot the Israeli spy, I do. You take care of the Pentagon leak.

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:42:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Post from garandman -

When will people learn the US has NO allies.

Leeches and opportunists, maybe. But no allies.


Sorry, garandman, but the biggest and most cutthroat enemies of the United States are not located in Israel.

n




I never said they were. Reading is FUNdamental.

Don't care to go down your rabbit trails or chase your diversions.

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:46:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:48:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 9:19:00 AM EST by Ritual]
POst deleted.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:49:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 7:53:49 AM EST by norman74]

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By norman74:
Count me as unsurprised.

This relationship is not an alliance, it's them taking whatever we'll give them, and giving nothing back in return.


I would imagine that we have just as many 'spies' in Israel as they have here!

We have 'spies' in every nation in which we have an Embassy, I would think. I would hope!

Do you doubt that?

Eric The(WelcomeToTheRealWorld)Hun



I would expect that we would. Because we are giving them aid. It is our business to know what they are doing with it. Since they are the ones receiving the aid I would expect them to behave like they actually appreciate it.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:49:48 AM EST
Ritual -


Lemme introduce to you to Eric The Hun.


NOW RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



(he's about to make you his personal project.)

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:51:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Since they are the benefactor I would expect them to behave like they actually appreciate it.






I gotts this here bridge, headed over to Brooklyn....




Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:51:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:52:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ritual:
My opinion here. Please note that I dont know a whole heckeva alot about palestine or israel.

I dont really like Israel.

Ok the US always tries to be the mediator between any foreign country who is in genocide, trying to conquer somebody else etc.

Didnt Israel try and conquer Palestine? The palestines fight the Israeli's because the Israels are trying to claim a piece of their country? Why not give Palestine a choice of wether they want to part with a pieace of their country. They obviously dont want to. So Israel should back off. They wont... So...

Why does the US support Israel? Israel are no better then the Palestines. I would rate Israel the ones in the wrong here. They want to claim the "Gaza strip" because they feel it is important territory for their religious beleifs. Why does the US support the Israel conquerers who are fighting a war over something as petty as a religion.

Any country who kills another country over religion are insane. They are no better then the Axis of Evil in WWII and WWI who tried to conquer the world. While israel has no interest that they are pursuiing in conquering the world, they do want to conquer palestine and convert their religion onto the Palestines.

This is wrong. I hope whatever politician in the US who dictates US policy in Israel is put in jail. If the president is the one who calls the shots I want him impeached and tried as a war criminal.

No I dont beleive in religion. I am not Christian, Jewish, Muslim or anything else. My family are mostly Christians. Me I tell them they are crazy and I dont support them in their religious beleifs. And both my grandparents, myself, and my parents are US citizens. So im not some palestinian immigrant or anything.

I dont know the history. But to me it seems like we are awfully wrong with picking sides in this fight. I dont beleive we are neutral for one second. We definatly are on Israels side. I think its wrong. And it may be the first time I ever write my US congressman.

In fact I would be happy going to war with ISrael for being fanatic lunatics and criminals.

I dont know any of the history though. It was Israel who invaded Palestine right?

But also Palestine is Muslim. I dont care what anybody says, Muslims are enemies of the US. The Muslim religion has adopted the US as their enemy. So even if your a US citizen and you beleive in the Muslim religion you are an enemy of mine since I am a US citizen.

I have no problems with the muslims hating the US politicians though. I dont blame them. And if they blame me for not stopping them, fine. Its all of our faults.

But please jail these politicians who voted for supporting Israels. We should of attacked Israel the second they sent their military into Palestine. Giving them weapons to defend their country is OK. Giving them weapons to Invade another country is WRONG.

IS Palestine (pakistan?) at war with the US from past times? If so why? Or do they only hate us because we support ISrael? If thats the case then I am disgusted to be a US citizen.

Just telling it like I see it.



I don't disagree with you, but you better batten down the hatches. The rabidly pro-isreal faction of this board is going to jump on you with both feet.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:54:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By norman74:
Since they are the benefactor I would expect them to behave like they actually appreciate it.






I gotts this here bridge, headed over to Brooklyn....







sorry, I corrected it. That's what I get for walking away mid-sentence & coming back to finish it without reading what I wrote before.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:55:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:55:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 8:06:12 AM EST by garandman]

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Loyalty to one's own country comes first.



I agree. Let's shoot the Pentagon leak and the Israeli spy simultaneously. The US is my own country.



If intel is offered it will be accepted. Period. You are being horribly naive.


I understand an OPPORTUNIST like Israel would take the info THAT ITS SUPPOSED ALLY (THE US) DIDN'T WANT THEM TO HAVE.

Doesn't mean i don't shoot the Israeli spy. And watch Israel like the opportunists they are.

"Naieve" is letting them get away with it.



Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:00:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By norman74:
Count me as unsurprised.

This relationship is not an alliance, it's them taking whatever we'll give them, and giving nothing back in return.


I would imagine that we have just as many 'spies' in Israel as they have here!

We have 'spies' in every nation in which we have an Embassy, I would think. I would hope!

Do you doubt that?

Eric The(WelcomeToTheRealWorld)Hun



I would expect that we would. Because we are giving them aid. It is our business to know what they are doing with it. Since they are the benefactor I would expect them to behave like they actually appreciate it.


Who says that they are not?

Simply having someone from Israel spying on Iran from the US is NOT what I would consider unappreciative!

And we don't even know that the story is true in the first place!

Some folks love to see 'Elders of Zion' in everything that ever occurs in the US-Israeli relations!

We shall see whether there is anything of substance to this story...or not.

Eric The(ZionistFromCreation)Hun



we've gone 'round and 'round with this before, and it's a well known fact that neither of us are going to change the other's mind.

I am curious though, as it's something I don't recall ever asking...

Do you support Israel because you see doing so as a tactical advantage in a volatile region, or because of your religious beliefs and bible verses?
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:00:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Simply having someone from Israel spying on Iran from the US is NOT what I would consider unappreciative!





Wasn't it Kruschev who said "They (the US) will give us the rope to hang them with..."

ETH, you remind me of a battered wife, who keeps returning to her abuser.

The US has info they DO NOT want Israel to have. An ALLY would refuse the info and inform the Pentagon of the leak.

Israel abuses our friendship with their spies. You say "Thank you very much" and then accuse us of having spies over there - a COMPLETELY unfounded charge, one you CANNOT and NEVER have given ANY evidence of - as if it justifies Isreals actions.

Return to your abuser, battered wife.

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:03:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:

I am curious though, as it's something I don't recall ever asking...

Do you support Israel because you see doing so as a tactical advantage in a volatile region, or because of yourreligious beliefs and misinterpretation of bible verses?




I fixed that for ya.

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:05:06 AM EST
why would they not spy on us regarding Iranian intelligence? i know i would if i was Israel. the S is going to H T F soon b/w the Israelis and Iranians.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:06:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:08:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
why would they not spy on us regarding Iranian intelligence? i know i would if i was Israel. the S is going to H T F soon b/w the Israelis and Iranians.




I'd expect them to try.

I'd also our gov't to execute them once caught.

Allies SHARE info - not STEAL it from each other.

That said, the US stealing intel from Israel is acceptable, as they are a US territory and protectorate, for all intents and purposes.

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:13:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 8:14:30 AM EST by garandman]

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

I'm not sure what the law says about this. I think spies from other countries are merely ejected and not allowed to return, but again, I'm not sure. Oh, you do recall we are a nation of laws, right? We don't get to just shoot those




I'm all for following our own laws.

If we'd shoot one of our own, according to the law, I'm guessing shooting a foreign spy is kosher too.

(ETA: "kosher" to shoot a Jewish spy - not intentional I SWEAR!!!!!!!!!)



....which you harbor a noticeably un-Christian hatred for.



This is a tired old tactic, bee.

Read the Bible sometime. NOTHING unChristian about nations killing others to protect their own interests.

As I;ve said many times - I got NOTHING against Israel. I expect them to pull a stunt like this. Its what NATIONS THINKING OF THEIR OWN INTERESTS do.

My animus is for our own politicians without the integrity to take care of business AS IF they were thinking of US interests first.



Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:14:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:15:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
The officials refused to identify the Pentagon employee under investigation but said the person is an analyst in the office of Douglas J. Feith (search), undersecretary of defense for policy, the Pentagon's No. 3 official.





Longtime insider, and Neo-con supporter of Israel. He was also an architect of the Iraq invasion...

Funny, ain't it, that Mossad had NO idea Saddam did NOT have WMD's.... (If ya believe that, there's a bridge for you somewhere!!)

Israel is the only beneficiary of our invasion of Iraq. Saddam's fall took a LOT of heat off Israel. Members of AIPAC have been making mid-east policy in the interests of Israel, rather than the US..

Traitors, all of 'em!!!
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:16:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 8:18:15 AM EST by garandman]

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By garandman:
I'd also our gov't to execute them once caught. <---this . . .


. . . and this ---> That said, the US stealing intel from Israel is acceptable, as they are a US territory and protectorate, for all intents and purposes.




. . . in the same freaking post!! Priceless!!




Isreal's gov't is bought and paid for by the US. They are like a fiefdom.

That said, IF there were any US spies in Israel, and they were caught, I'd anticipate Israel would execute them. its what sovereign antions do when they catcha spy.

Goes with the territory. NOT what you suggest "Now nice Mr Israel spy, don;t you do that again, or we'll deport you...."

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:26:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:38:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 8:47:58 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:40:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 8:52:45 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:59:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Post from norman74:

Do you support Israel because you see doing so as a tactical advantage in a volatile region, or because of your religious beliefs and bible verses?

That's easy!

Both reasons are sufficient for me. but I like the first one better, since the second reason is personal to me, and the first reason is one that everyone should be able to agree on!

But there are also many, many other reasons, as well.

Eric The(Realpolitik)Hun



This all leads to a "chicken or the egg" debate, wherein one argument is that had we never supported the Israelis in the middle east, we never would have had a volatile region.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 9:01:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ritual:
My opinion here. Please note that I dont know a whole heckeva alot about palestine or israel.

...

I dont know the history.

...

I dont know any of the history though. ...



Wow - "I don't know anything and freely amdit it, but I am going to state my unfounded ridiculous opinions anyway"

Everything you said showed any absolute ignorance of the history - which you freely admit. I can only assume the fact that you have opinions in line with the leftist drivel common in the US is because you have only heard snippets from such sources. You should probably read a little before developing such strong opinions.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 9:09:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Count me as unsurprised.

This relationship is not an alliance, it's them taking whatever we'll give them, and giving nothing back in return.



Really?

Then I guess them showing us all the really cool mods to the F-16's we sold them isn't worth anything, eh?

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 9:11:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 9:59:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

This area has been the subject of more invasions and the object of more heated discussion than any area on the face of the planet!

Would you care to hazzard a guess as to how many times in recored history the City of Jerusalem has either been conquered by armies or laid siege to by armies?

Hmmmm?

That alone should tell you that it will always be the center of contention, controversy, and conflict.



Remind me how this effects me again?
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 11:31:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By bulldog1967:

Originally Posted By norman74:
Count me as unsurprised.

This relationship is not an alliance, it's them taking whatever we'll give them, and giving nothing back in return.



Really?

Then I guess them showing us all the really cool mods to the F-16's we sold them isn't worth anything, eh?




That and all that rather cool ABM missile technology and some seriously good Jamming gear, not to mention battle testing the gear for the US Military so they can improve it to become the best of the best…

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 11:43:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 11:45:03 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 11:51:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By garandman:


Allies SHARE info - not STEAL it from each other.

That said, the US stealing intel from Israel is acceptable, as they are a US territory and protectorate, for all intents and purposes.




I can't believe you wrote that G-man----but since you did---if Israel is indeed a "US territory", then anything they get their hands on, no matter how, they must indeed be entitled to---since they are a "US territory".

BTW, the "allies share info" statement is really ironic; because it puts you and Jonathon Pollard in the same boat. He thought that allies should share information too.

The ONLY info that Pollard ever gave the Israelis, was info that the US had obligated itself to give Israel under an intelligence sharing agreement that we had signed w/them. The Israelis held up their end of the bargain, and then our military intelligence numbnuts decided that they didn't want to give the Israelis what we had obligated ourselves to disclose to them.

This is the major reason Pollard got the sentence he got, and has been denied visitation all these years. Unfortunately, they had to give him access to an attorney (under court order). Otherwise, he still wouldn't have been able to share the real story about what happened and why.

Strangely, the newspapers have ignored the real story of Pollard's actions. Gee, I wonder why that is

Does it occur to you that if we treated Israel more like an ally, they might act more like one?

I guess we do, occasionally when it's to our advantage. Otherwise, "shut the hell up you guys and do what we tell you".
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 12:00:40 PM EST
I like Israel, because they kill ALMOST as many savage, muslim terrorists as we do.

And before we go further with the discussion, perhaps the content of what was passed should be discussed.
If I read correctly, it was a draft of a speech. Not the Enigma Machine's blueprints. Not troop movement info. Not the plan for an invasion.
It was a draft of a speech.
No intelligence assets were compromised.
It was a draft of a speech.

That being said, I think he should be charged and fired.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 12:02:37 PM EST
I'm sure Israel is grateful this dirtbag passed US intel to them. It happens a lot. There are lots of sympathizers for Israel in the US.
Who was the guyt hat passed all those nuke secrets to them.? This guy in the Pentagon should get the sme treatment. Prison. End of story.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 12:33:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 12:51:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 12:52:28 PM EST by EricTheHun]
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