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7/8/2020 3:01:36 PM
Posted: 12/11/2013 8:39:46 AM EDT
I am not going to renew my C&R this time around.

Do I need to still answer sections B, C and D?

There isn't specific renewal information in the C&R tacked threads and I didn't find anything in my searches.

Thanks
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:40:45 AM EDT
I'm confused, you aren't renewing, but want to fill the form out?


Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:42:04 AM EDT
If you don't renew you don't have to do anything except not log in C&R guns into your now expired bound book.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:42:46 AM EDT
Given the benefits and the minimal cost, why not renew?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:43:43 AM EDT
I don't have to send the form back in saying that I'm not renewing??

There is a box on the front page that needs a signature and check mark stating I'm not renewing.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:45:15 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Given the benefits and the minimal cost, why not renew?
View Quote


There's at least one valid reason mentioned in the armory section.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:46:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 8:48:16 AM EDT by TrojanMan]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CTRob65:


There's at least one valid reason mentioned in the armory section.
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Originally Posted By CTRob65:
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Given the benefits and the minimal cost, why not renew?


There's at least one valid reason mentioned in the armory section.


I have to go somewhere other than GD to find the answer?!?

Fuck that.  


ETA:  I'm not seeing it on the first 3 pages.  Would you care to just tell us?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:46:40 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By CTRob65:


There's at least one valid reason mentioned in the armory section.
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Originally Posted By CTRob65:
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Given the benefits and the minimal cost, why not renew?


There's at least one valid reason mentioned in the armory section.


Which is.......?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:46:57 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By CTRob65:


There's at least one valid reason mentioned in the armory section.
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Originally Posted By CTRob65:
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Given the benefits and the minimal cost, why not renew?


There's at least one valid reason mentioned in the armory section.


Can you provide a link?  I'm curious.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:51:07 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:


Can you provide a link?  I'm curious.
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Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Originally Posted By CTRob65:
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Given the benefits and the minimal cost, why not renew?


There's at least one valid reason mentioned in the armory section.


Can you provide a link?  I'm curious.

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:56:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:00:30 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Can you provide a link?  I'm curious.
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Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:



Originally Posted By CTRob65:


Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:

Given the benefits and the minimal cost, why not renew?




There's at least one valid reason mentioned in the armory section.




Can you provide a link?  I'm curious.


This.



 
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:01:55 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Given the benefits and the minimal cost, why not renew?
View Quote


One reason is that upon losing your status as a license holder your obligation to keep a bound book disappears.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:06:47 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CTRob65:
I don't have to send the form back in saying that I'm not renewing??

There is a box on the front page that needs a signature and check mark stating I'm not renewing.
View Quote


You just answered your own question. Do what the form tells you and send it in. You will no longer be a C&R FFL.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:10:05 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:


I have to go somewhere other than GD to find the answer?!?

Fuck that.  


ETA:  I'm not seeing it on the first 3 pages.  Would you care to just tell us?
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By CTRob65:
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Given the benefits and the minimal cost, why not renew?


There's at least one valid reason mentioned in the armory section.


I have to go somewhere other than GD to find the answer?!?

Fuck that.  


ETA:  I'm not seeing it on the first 3 pages.  Would you care to just tell us?


Must be some super duper C&R Secret Squirrel shit.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:12:17 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By R2point0:
One reason is that upon losing your status as a license holder your obligation to keep a bound book disappears.
View Quote


I never really considered that a burden.  I keep both a physical and a digital log and it takes all of 5 min to update when something comes in.  The ability to have a weapon delivered to my door outweighs that... at least to me.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:13:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 9:14:09 AM EDT by SoloMan]
So how long does renewal take?  It is the same length of time as acquiring the license?









Also, if you renew, do you still have to keep the records?  Or just for the first 3 years, and the next 3 years, etc?










I know my FFL paid for itself with these 12 C&R rifles I purchased last month.







How many more I will buy, I don't know......definitely not as many as that.




Mine expires in December 2016.


 
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:19:30 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:


I never really considered that a burden.  I keep both a physical and a digital log and it takes all of 5 min to update when something comes in.  The ability to have a weapon delivered to my door outweighs that... at least to me.
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Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
One reason is that upon losing your status as a license holder your obligation to keep a bound book disappears.


I never really considered that a burden.  I keep both a physical and a digital log and it takes all of 5 min to update when something comes in.  The ability to have a weapon delivered to my door outweighs that... at least to me.


If you no longer have to keep a bound book you are no longer subject to the possibility of inspections.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:21:05 AM EDT
I just got my renewal yesterday and thought about dropping it, but I mailed it back today. Curios have moved up to 1963, so why not keep it going?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:23:32 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MisterOuchie:
If you no longer have to keep a bound book you are no longer subject to the possibility of inspections.
View Quote


True, but I'm only responsible for showing what I bought on the license and the inspection doesn't require a home visit.  I can make an appointment to goto their office if they desire an inspection.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:26:37 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MisterOuchie:


If you no longer have to keep a bound book you are no longer subject to the possibility of inspections.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MisterOuchie:
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
One reason is that upon losing your status as a license holder your obligation to keep a bound book disappears.


I never really considered that a burden.  I keep both a physical and a digital log and it takes all of 5 min to update when something comes in.  The ability to have a weapon delivered to my door outweighs that... at least to me.


If you no longer have to keep a bound book you are no longer subject to the possibility of inspections.


How much danger is there for that anyhow?

And it's just an inspection of your book.  It doesn't even have to be at your house.

Bring your book to Starbuck's, buy the agent a cup of coffee, let them look it over to their heart's content, and then go home.

It's not really that big of a deal.  You gotta remember, you're an FFL, and that carries some responsibility on your end.


The benefits still far outweigh the inconvenience.  For example, even in MD, I can buy a handgun shipped to my door and it's exempt from all of our stupid registration shit.

My kids will have C&R Glocks someday, which is pretty cool.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:30:00 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:


How much danger is there for that anyhow?

And it's just an inspection of your book.  It doesn't even have to be at your house.

Bring your book to Starbuck's, buy the agent a cup of coffee, let them look it over to their heart's content, and then go home.

It's not really that big of a deal.  You gotta remember, you're an FFL, and that carries some responsibility on your end.


The benefits still far outweigh the inconvenience.  For example, even in MD, I can buy a handgun shipped to my door and it's exempt from all of our stupid registration shit.

My kids will have C&R Glocks someday, which is pretty cool.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By MisterOuchie:
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
One reason is that upon losing your status as a license holder your obligation to keep a bound book disappears.


I never really considered that a burden.  I keep both a physical and a digital log and it takes all of 5 min to update when something comes in.  The ability to have a weapon delivered to my door outweighs that... at least to me.


If you no longer have to keep a bound book you are no longer subject to the possibility of inspections.


How much danger is there for that anyhow?

And it's just an inspection of your book.  It doesn't even have to be at your house.

Bring your book to Starbuck's, buy the agent a cup of coffee, let them look it over to their heart's content, and then go home.

It's not really that big of a deal.  You gotta remember, you're an FFL, and that carries some responsibility on your end.


The benefits still far outweigh the inconvenience.  For example, even in MD, I can buy a handgun shipped to my door and it's exempt from all of our stupid registration shit.

My kids will have C&R Glocks someday, which is pretty cool.


I never said anything about danger, or even concern. Just stated a fact. The agent that came to my place was a smoking hot lady, I didn't mind!
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:31:43 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MisterOuchie:
I never said anything about danger, or even concern. Just stated a fact. The agent that came to my place was a smoking hot lady, I didn't mind!
View Quote


Any idea what raised their interest in your purchases?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 10:00:45 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:


I never really considered that a burden.  I keep both a physical and a digital log and it takes all of 5 min to update when something comes in.  The ability to have a weapon delivered to my door outweighs that... at least to me.
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Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
One reason is that upon losing your status as a license holder your obligation to keep a bound book disappears.


I never really considered that a burden.  I keep both a physical and a digital log and it takes all of 5 min to update when something comes in.  The ability to have a weapon delivered to my door outweighs that... at least to me.


The burden of having to update the bound book and copies is not a burden at all, but part of my reasoning is based on R2point0's answer. The other part of my decision is that I need to put the extra funds I would use for C&R's towards other things for a while. If I do find something I want I can have it shipped to my local fun store where they charge me $10 transfer fee. Given the price of C&R's as of late an additional $10 and a ten minute ride isn't going to break me.

Originally Posted By sawgunner73:
Originally Posted By CTRob65:
I don't have to send the form back in saying that I'm not renewing??

There is a box on the front page that needs a signature and check mark stating I'm not renewing.


You just answered your own question. Do what the form tells you and send it in. You will no longer be a C&R FFL.


I thought that was the case, but considering the form doesn't tell me not to answer the other sections if I'm not renewing I thought I'd ask here and keep my fingers crossed that somewhere in the GD answers there would be a "real" answer. Thank you.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 10:03:18 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:

How much danger is there for that anyhow?

And it's just an inspection of your book. It doesn't even have to be at your house.

Bring your book to Starbuck's, buy the agent a cup of coffee, let them look it over to their heart's content, and then go home.

It's not really that big of a deal.  You gotta remember, you're an FFL, and that carries some responsibility on your end.


The benefits still far outweigh the inconvenience.  For example, even in MD, I can buy a handgun shipped to my door and it's exempt from all of our stupid registration shit.

My kids will have C&R Glocks someday, which is pretty cool.
View Quote


The book is just part of the inspection. The other part is comparing the bound book's information to the firearms recorded in the bound book.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 10:07:47 AM EDT
There is absolutely nothing of interest to be imported on the horizon.

HOWEVER, the discount I get from Brownells makes it worthwhile (Midway quit giving any discount).
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 10:22:43 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:


How much danger is there for that anyhow?

And it's just an inspection of your book.  It doesn't even have to be at your house.

Bring your book to Starbuck's, buy the agent a cup of coffee, let them look it over to their heart's content, and then go home.

It's not really that big of a deal.  You gotta remember, you're an FFL, and that carries some responsibility on your end.


The benefits still far outweigh the inconvenience.  For example, even in MD, I can buy a handgun shipped to my door and it's exempt from all of our stupid registration shit.

My kids will have C&R Glocks someday, which is pretty cool.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By MisterOuchie:
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
One reason is that upon losing your status as a license holder your obligation to keep a bound book disappears.


I never really considered that a burden.  I keep both a physical and a digital log and it takes all of 5 min to update when something comes in.  The ability to have a weapon delivered to my door outweighs that... at least to me.


If you no longer have to keep a bound book you are no longer subject to the possibility of inspections.


How much danger is there for that anyhow?

And it's just an inspection of your book.  It doesn't even have to be at your house.

Bring your book to Starbuck's, buy the agent a cup of coffee, let them look it over to their heart's content, and then go home.

It's not really that big of a deal.  You gotta remember, you're an FFL, and that carries some responsibility on your end.


The benefits still far outweigh the inconvenience.  For example, even in MD, I can buy a handgun shipped to my door and it's exempt from all of our stupid registration shit.

My kids will have C&R Glocks someday, which is pretty cool.


I don't want to jump to incorrect conclusions here, because I do not know MD law, but my understanding is that C&R holders must still satisfy all state and local laws. On a surface level, that would seem to be in conflict with your statement. How is it that this exemption works? I will pass the info on to a friend in MD who loves old mechanical things and might go C&R...
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 12:48:17 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Emoto:


I don't want to jump to incorrect conclusions here, because I do not know MD law, but my understanding is that C&R holders must still satisfy all state and local laws. On a surface level, that would seem to be in conflict with your statement. How is it that this exemption works? I will pass the info on to a friend in MD who loves old mechanical things and might go C&R...
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Originally Posted By Emoto:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By MisterOuchie:
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
One reason is that upon losing your status as a license holder your obligation to keep a bound book disappears.


I never really considered that a burden.  I keep both a physical and a digital log and it takes all of 5 min to update when something comes in.  The ability to have a weapon delivered to my door outweighs that... at least to me.


If you no longer have to keep a bound book you are no longer subject to the possibility of inspections.


How much danger is there for that anyhow?

And it's just an inspection of your book.  It doesn't even have to be at your house.

Bring your book to Starbuck's, buy the agent a cup of coffee, let them look it over to their heart's content, and then go home.

It's not really that big of a deal.  You gotta remember, you're an FFL, and that carries some responsibility on your end.


The benefits still far outweigh the inconvenience.  For example, even in MD, I can buy a handgun shipped to my door and it's exempt from all of our stupid registration shit.

My kids will have C&R Glocks someday, which is pretty cool.


I don't want to jump to incorrect conclusions here, because I do not know MD law, but my understanding is that C&R holders must still satisfy all state and local laws. On a surface level, that would seem to be in conflict with your statement. How is it that this exemption works? I will pass the info on to a friend in MD who loves old mechanical things and might go C&R...


I'm not sure about now after the O'Malley fuckfest, but there was a memo from the State AG stating that, basically, since the transaction doesn't happen in MD, MD requirements don't apply (waiting period, registration, etc.)
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 12:58:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 1:04:21 PM EDT by TrojanMan]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Emoto:
I don't want to jump to incorrect conclusions here, because I do not know MD law, but my understanding is that C&R holders must still satisfy all state and local laws. On a surface level, that would seem to be in conflict with your statement. How is it that this exemption works? I will pass the info on to a friend in MD who loves old mechanical things and might go C&R...
View Quote


It's legal on a "not prohibited" basis.

Note that the law covers sales of firearms ("...may not sell, offer for sale, etc..."), not purchasing.


You may not transfer any pistol (C&R or title 1) intrastate. without being a federally licensed dealer.  That is, no sales of any pistols from a MD resident to a MD resident, no exceptions.  
At least one of the two parties must be an FFL 1, 2, (possibly some manufacturer/importer/dealers?).

However, the law does NOT cover interstate commerce, and it cannot because to do so would be a violation of the Commerce Clause of the Constitution.  That is, the state of MD cannot tell, say, a resident of Vrginia what they may or may not sell, offer for sale, etc.

Because the MD law only covers the sale, and only criminalizes the private sale of handguns, purchasing and the purchaser are not affected.

Therefore, so long as you buy the pistol from an out-of-state individual or dealer, C&R handguns go right to your door with no other requirements.  

The law simply doesn't address the issue, therefore it is legal.


ETA:  Some states DO prohibit (some) C&R pistols, but they do it on the basis of something other than the sale.  For example, California basically says that if it's not 50 years old, it's not C&R no matter what the ATF says.  So certain pistols (e.g. Vz82), while they are C&R normally, they are not in California.  If you buy one from an FFL, you still have to record it as a C&R holder (in compliance with federal regulations), but you cannot use your C&R license to acquire one (since that would be against CA law).

Go ahead and figure that one out.  
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:25:45 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:


It's legal on a "not prohibited" basis.

Note that the law covers sales of firearms ("...may not sell, offer for sale, etc..."), not purchasing.


You may not transfer any pistol (C&R or title 1) intrastate. without being a federally licensed dealer.  That is, no sales of any pistols from a MD resident to a MD resident, no exceptions.  
At least one of the two parties must be an FFL 1, 2, (possibly some manufacturer/importer/dealers?).

However, the law does NOT cover interstate commerce, and it cannot because to do so would be a violation of the Commerce Clause of the Constitution.  That is, the state of MD cannot tell, say, a resident of Vrginia what they may or may not sell, offer for sale, etc.

Because the MD law only covers the sale, and only criminalizes the private sale of handguns, purchasing and the purchaser are not affected.

Therefore, so long as you buy the pistol from an out-of-state individual or dealer, C&R handguns go right to your door with no other requirements.  

The law simply doesn't address the issue, therefore it is legal.


ETA:  Some states DO prohibit (some) C&R pistols, but they do it on the basis of something other than the sale.  For example, California basically says that if it's not 50 years old, it's not C&R no matter what the ATF says.  So certain pistols (e.g. Vz82), while they are C&R normally, they are not in California.  If you buy one from an FFL, you still have to record it as a C&R holder (in compliance with federal regulations), but you cannot use your C&R license to acquire one (since that would be against CA law).

Go ahead and figure that one out.  
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By Emoto:
I don't want to jump to incorrect conclusions here, because I do not know MD law, but my understanding is that C&R holders must still satisfy all state and local laws. On a surface level, that would seem to be in conflict with your statement. How is it that this exemption works? I will pass the info on to a friend in MD who loves old mechanical things and might go C&R...


It's legal on a "not prohibited" basis.

Note that the law covers sales of firearms ("...may not sell, offer for sale, etc..."), not purchasing.


You may not transfer any pistol (C&R or title 1) intrastate. without being a federally licensed dealer.  That is, no sales of any pistols from a MD resident to a MD resident, no exceptions.  
At least one of the two parties must be an FFL 1, 2, (possibly some manufacturer/importer/dealers?).

However, the law does NOT cover interstate commerce, and it cannot because to do so would be a violation of the Commerce Clause of the Constitution.  That is, the state of MD cannot tell, say, a resident of Vrginia what they may or may not sell, offer for sale, etc.

Because the MD law only covers the sale, and only criminalizes the private sale of handguns, purchasing and the purchaser are not affected.

Therefore, so long as you buy the pistol from an out-of-state individual or dealer, C&R handguns go right to your door with no other requirements.  

The law simply doesn't address the issue, therefore it is legal.


ETA:  Some states DO prohibit (some) C&R pistols, but they do it on the basis of something other than the sale.  For example, California basically says that if it's not 50 years old, it's not C&R no matter what the ATF says.  So certain pistols (e.g. Vz82), while they are C&R normally, they are not in California.  If you buy one from an FFL, you still have to record it as a C&R holder (in compliance with federal regulations), but you cannot use your C&R license to acquire one (since that would be against CA law).

Go ahead and figure that one out.  


Ah! Excellent. Thanks to you and to R2point0 for the clarifications.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:41:38 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
It's legal on a "not prohibited" basis.



Note that the law covers sales of firearms ("...may not sell, offer for sale, etc..."), not purchasing.





You may not transfer any pistol (C&R or title 1) intrastate. without being a federally licensed dealer.  That is, no sales of any pistols from a MD resident to a MD resident, no exceptions.  

At least one of the two parties must be an FFL 1, 2, (possibly some manufacturer/importer/dealers?).



However, the law does NOT cover interstate commerce, and it cannot because to do so would be a violation of the Commerce Clause of the Constitution.  That is, the state of MD cannot tell, say, a resident of Vrginia what they may or may not sell, offer for sale, etc.



Because the MD law only covers the sale, and only criminalizes the private sale of handguns, purchasing and the purchaser are not affected.



Therefore, so long as you buy the pistol from an out-of-state individual or dealer, C&R handguns go right to your door with no other requirements.  



The law simply doesn't address the issue, therefore it is legal.





ETA:  Some states DO prohibit (some) C&R pistols, but they do it on the basis of something other than the sale.  For example, California basically says that if it's not 50 years old, it's not C&R no matter what the ATF says.  So certain pistols (e.g. Vz82), while they are C&R normally, they are not in California.  If you buy one from an FFL, you still have to record it as a C&R holder (in compliance with federal regulations),ntil  but you cannot use your C&R license to acquire one (since that would be against CA law).



Go ahead and figure that one out.  
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:



Originally Posted By Emoto:

I don't want to jump to incorrect conclusions here, because I do not know MD law, but my understanding is that C&R holders must still satisfy all state and local laws. On a surface level, that would seem to be in conflict with your statement. How is it that this exemption works? I will pass the info on to a friend in MD who loves old mechanical things and might go C&R...




It's legal on a "not prohibited" basis.



Note that the law covers sales of firearms ("...may not sell, offer for sale, etc..."), not purchasing.





You may not transfer any pistol (C&R or title 1) intrastate. without being a federally licensed dealer.  That is, no sales of any pistols from a MD resident to a MD resident, no exceptions.  

At least one of the two parties must be an FFL 1, 2, (possibly some manufacturer/importer/dealers?).



However, the law does NOT cover interstate commerce, and it cannot because to do so would be a violation of the Commerce Clause of the Constitution.  That is, the state of MD cannot tell, say, a resident of Vrginia what they may or may not sell, offer for sale, etc.



Because the MD law only covers the sale, and only criminalizes the private sale of handguns, purchasing and the purchaser are not affected.



Therefore, so long as you buy the pistol from an out-of-state individual or dealer, C&R handguns go right to your door with no other requirements.  



The law simply doesn't address the issue, therefore it is legal.





ETA:  Some states DO prohibit (some) C&R pistols, but they do it on the basis of something other than the sale.  For example, California basically says that if it's not 50 years old, it's not C&R no matter what the ATF says.  So certain pistols (e.g. Vz82), while they are C&R normally, they are not in California.  If you buy one from an FFL, you still have to record it as a C&R holder (in compliance with federal regulations),ntil  but you cannot use your C&R license to acquire one (since that would be against CA law).



Go ahead and figure that one out.  




 
Until I can get out of this state, my C&R is as good as gold.  I have no intentions of getting the HQL (or whatever it's called).
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:04:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 7:04:53 AM EDT by TrojanMan]
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Originally Posted By WanderingOisin:
Until I can get out of this state, my C&R is as good as gold.  I have no intentions of getting the HQL (or whatever it's called).
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Since I've got a military ID and am exempt from getting an HQL (isn't that a bunch of baloney, though), the law makes very little difference to me personally.  I can still buy a handgun under the old rules.

Basically, the big issue is just that now I'm limited to HBAR AR15s, which is just kinda annoying.  I completed a few 80%s before 1Oct, and I can cannibalize the receivers from my match rifles if I need (turning the leftover parts into a new HBAR on a new receiver), so I can still build a few AR15s in whatever configuration I want, but eventually that supply will run out as well.  It's also a really stupid hoop to have to jump through.

But I'm financially tapped out right now, having burned all my available cash before Oct1, so I've got quite a bit of time before it's a real issue.

I could also just get into precision rifles and/or AR10s, since I guess I have enough .223s right now.  The irony of the law is that it's just going to force me to buy larger caliber and more ballistically effective rifles.  
Of course, none of my mag pouches will fit .308 mags.    First world problems, I guess.


The whole thing is stupid, and I hope nobody complies with it.  I hope people just sign up for C&Rs and stuff en masse and MD buys all the HiPowers, 1911s, Maks, P38s, etc. and just uses those.

I even hope a bunch of people just break the law outright.  Buy an HBAR and put whatever upper you want on it, that sort of thing.  I hope people just do whatever they want because fuck you, I'll sit on that seat of the bus if I want to, you know?  Nobody even uses rifles to commit crimes, yet it's some urgent thing that we needed to ram through a law over.  The whole thing is just fucking stupid.  I'm not encouraging it (hi, COC), and I'm not going to do it myself, but some guy out in Western MD where nobody gives a fuck?  I hope those guys just do whatever the hell they want and take their liberty even if O'Malley refuses to give it to them.

And you really think someone that moves here with a gun is going to fill out the paperwork to register their shit?  I don't.  Most people probably don't even know you're supposed to do that.  The law just sucks, and it's stupid, and I hope it mostly gets ignored.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 8:25:25 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By CTRob65:
I don't have to send the form back in saying that I'm not renewing??

There is a box on the front page that needs a signature and check mark stating I'm not renewing.
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I may or may not have lost my bound book after moving and my license was expiring in 2 months anyway so i just let it expire that and the C&r market is pretty much dead. I might go for a ffl 03 for transfers and what not.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 11:38:33 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:


Since I've got a military ID and am exempt from getting an HQL (isn't that a bunch of baloney, though), the law makes very little difference to me personally.  I can still buy a handgun under the old rules.

Basically, the big issue is just that now I'm limited to HBAR AR15s, which is just kinda annoying.  I completed a few 80%s before 1Oct, and I can cannibalize the receivers from my match rifles if I need (turning the leftover parts into a new HBAR on a new receiver), so I can still build a few AR15s in whatever configuration I want, but eventually that supply will run out as well.  It's also a really stupid hoop to have to jump through.

But I'm financially tapped out right now, having burned all my available cash before Oct1, so I've got quite a bit of time before it's a real issue.

I could also just get into precision rifles and/or AR10s, since I guess I have enough .223s right now.  The irony of the law is that it's just going to force me to buy larger caliber and more ballistically effective rifles.  
Of course, none of my mag pouches will fit .308 mags.    First world problems, I guess.


The whole thing is stupid, and I hope nobody complies with it.  I hope people just sign up for C&Rs and stuff en masse and MD buys all the HiPowers, 1911s, Maks, P38s, etc. and just uses those.

I even hope a bunch of people just break the law outright.  Buy an HBAR and put whatever upper you want on it, that sort of thing.  I hope people just do whatever they want because fuck you, I'll sit on that seat of the bus if I want to, you know?  Nobody even uses rifles to commit crimes, yet it's some urgent thing that we needed to ram through a law over.  The whole thing is just fucking stupid.  I'm not encouraging it (hi, COC), and I'm not going to do it myself, but some guy out in Western MD where nobody gives a fuck?  I hope those guys just do whatever the hell they want and take their liberty even if O'Malley refuses to give it to them.

And you really think someone that moves here with a gun is going to fill out the paperwork to register their shit?  I don't.  Most people probably don't even know you're supposed to do that.  The law just sucks, and it's stupid, and I hope it mostly gets ignored.
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By WanderingOisin:
Until I can get out of this state, my C&R is as good as gold.  I have no intentions of getting the HQL (or whatever it's called).


Since I've got a military ID and am exempt from getting an HQL (isn't that a bunch of baloney, though), the law makes very little difference to me personally.  I can still buy a handgun under the old rules.

Basically, the big issue is just that now I'm limited to HBAR AR15s, which is just kinda annoying.  I completed a few 80%s before 1Oct, and I can cannibalize the receivers from my match rifles if I need (turning the leftover parts into a new HBAR on a new receiver), so I can still build a few AR15s in whatever configuration I want, but eventually that supply will run out as well.  It's also a really stupid hoop to have to jump through.

But I'm financially tapped out right now, having burned all my available cash before Oct1, so I've got quite a bit of time before it's a real issue.

I could also just get into precision rifles and/or AR10s, since I guess I have enough .223s right now.  The irony of the law is that it's just going to force me to buy larger caliber and more ballistically effective rifles.  
Of course, none of my mag pouches will fit .308 mags.    First world problems, I guess.


The whole thing is stupid, and I hope nobody complies with it.  I hope people just sign up for C&Rs and stuff en masse and MD buys all the HiPowers, 1911s, Maks, P38s, etc. and just uses those.

I even hope a bunch of people just break the law outright.  Buy an HBAR and put whatever upper you want on it, that sort of thing.  I hope people just do whatever they want because fuck you, I'll sit on that seat of the bus if I want to, you know?  Nobody even uses rifles to commit crimes, yet it's some urgent thing that we needed to ram through a law over.  The whole thing is just fucking stupid.  I'm not encouraging it (hi, COC), and I'm not going to do it myself, but some guy out in Western MD where nobody gives a fuck?  I hope those guys just do whatever the hell they want and take their liberty even if O'Malley refuses to give it to them.

And you really think someone that moves here with a gun is going to fill out the paperwork to register their shit?  I don't.  Most people probably don't even know you're supposed to do that.  The law just sucks, and it's stupid, and I hope it mostly gets ignored.


Be VERY careful on the "HBAR" exemption.  The law excepts the "Colt HBAR", so unless the receiver originally came from a Colt HBAR - and you can prove it - it doesn't matter what the configuration is.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 1:53:45 PM EDT
That's not the running interpretation right now.

MSP basically said that the "copies of" language works both ways.
You can make a copy of an HBAR and have it be legal.

They haven't issued actual dimensions yet, but the decision is basically that heavy profile barreled rifles are cash&carry.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 2:03:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
That's not the running interpretation right now.

MSP basically said that the "copies of" language works both ways.
You can make a copy of an HBAR and have it be legal.

They haven't issued actual dimensions yet, but the decision is basically that heavy profile barreled rifles are cash&carry.
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Hmmm, interesting. I believe the interpretation was different before.  That being said I am surprised that exception stayed in place.  Though the ignorance of our legislators shouldn't be a surprise anymore.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 3:17:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By R2point0:


Hmmm, interesting. I believe the interpretation was different before.  That being said I am surprised that exception stayed in place.  Though the ignorance of our legislators shouldn't be a surprise anymore.
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Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
That's not the running interpretation right now.

MSP basically said that the "copies of" language works both ways.
You can make a copy of an HBAR and have it be legal.

They haven't issued actual dimensions yet, but the decision is basically that heavy profile barreled rifles are cash&carry.


Hmmm, interesting. I believe the interpretation was different before.  That being said I am surprised that exception stayed in place.  Though the ignorance of our legislators shouldn't be a surprise anymore.


Them banning match rifles was a very strong point in the opposition to the bill.
That, and the increased interest following it's passage basically prompted a clarification.

Prior to passage, the "HBAR exemption" was use by some gun stores, and not others.
For example, my match rifles were all transferred as restricted firearms solely because that's how Atlantic did business. It turns out to be somewhat of a "benefit" since I could still reconfigure those receivers however I like.

Other stores, though, ha policies that a rifle (or complete lower) could be cash&carry so long as it left in HBAR configuration. That is, bring in your HBAR upper, but the rifle, reassemble as HBAR, and there you go.

I've heard of that, but haven't seen it personally.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 4:22:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CTRob65:


The book is just part of the inspection. The other part is comparing the bound book's information to the firearms recorded in the bound book.
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Originally Posted By CTRob65:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:

How much danger is there for that anyhow?

And it's just an inspection of your book. It doesn't even have to be at your house.

Bring your book to Starbuck's, buy the agent a cup of coffee, let them look it over to their heart's content, and then go home.

It's not really that big of a deal.  You gotta remember, you're an FFL, and that carries some responsibility on your end.


The benefits still far outweigh the inconvenience.  For example, even in MD, I can buy a handgun shipped to my door and it's exempt from all of our stupid registration shit.

My kids will have C&R Glocks someday, which is pretty cool.


The book is just part of the inspection. The other part is comparing the bound book's information to the firearms recorded in the bound book.

This is correct. You have given them permission to finger fuck the firearms that are checked into your book.  You have no choice if they ask to see them.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 10:52:43 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Rugerlvr:

This is correct. You have given them permission to finger fuck the firearms that are checked into your book.  You have no choice if they ask to see them.
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Originally Posted By Rugerlvr:
Originally Posted By CTRob65:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:

How much danger is there for that anyhow?

And it's just an inspection of your book. It doesn't even have to be at your house.

Bring your book to Starbuck's, buy the agent a cup of coffee, let them look it over to their heart's content, and then go home.

It's not really that big of a deal.  You gotta remember, you're an FFL, and that carries some responsibility on your end.


The benefits still far outweigh the inconvenience.  For example, even in MD, I can buy a handgun shipped to my door and it's exempt from all of our stupid registration shit.

My kids will have C&R Glocks someday, which is pretty cool.


The book is just part of the inspection. The other part is comparing the bound book's information to the firearms recorded in the bound book.

This is correct. You have given them permission to finger fuck the firearms that are checked into your book.  You have no choice if they ask to see them.


However, you DO have the choice of where that occurs. It does not have to be at your house.
Link Posted: 12/13/2013 10:59:41 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:


I never really considered that a burden.  I keep both a physical and a digital log and it takes all of 5 min to update when something comes in.  The ability to have a weapon delivered to my door outweighs that... at least to me.
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Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
One reason is that upon losing your status as a license holder your obligation to keep a bound book disappears.


I never really considered that a burden.  I keep both a physical and a digital log and it takes all of 5 min to update when something comes in.  The ability to have a weapon delivered to my door outweighs that... at least to me.



Me either. I just entered in this 1948 16ga Remington Model 31 I picked-up today. Best $10.00 a year you will ever spend. C&Rs are not just mil-surps.

Link Posted: 12/13/2013 12:24:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 1srelluc:



Me either. I just entered in this 1948 16ga Remington Model 31 I picked-up today. Best $10.00 a year you will ever spend. C&Rs are not just mil-surps.

http://oi40.tinypic.com/2h66545.jpg
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Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Originally Posted By Choking_Hazard:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
One reason is that upon losing your status as a license holder your obligation to keep a bound book disappears.


I never really considered that a burden.  I keep both a physical and a digital log and it takes all of 5 min to update when something comes in.  The ability to have a weapon delivered to my door outweighs that... at least to me.



Me either. I just entered in this 1948 16ga Remington Model 31 I picked-up today. Best $10.00 a year you will ever spend. C&Rs are not just mil-surps.

http://oi40.tinypic.com/2h66545.jpg


It can be hit or miss.  I picked up 2 old shotguns at a gun show in Oaks PA 2 years ago.  Neither seller would take my C&R.  One just didn't want to because "it doesn't save him any paperwork."  The other insisted that it wasn't a C&R because *all three* conditions had to be met - over 50, historical interest, on the list.  I even showed him where it said specifically "any" of the conditions; he said that the book was wrong and he knew it was all 3.
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