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Posted: 2/16/2017 4:36:08 PM EDT
We had a customer purchase thousands of copyrighted PDF's and upload it to their web server and put them into a public directory.

Google crawled their site and now if you search for our product in Google, our website shows up in the results as #1 and their PDF of the product shows up as #2. If you click on their link it opens the actual PDF.

Can we subpoena (or request) Google to tell us how many times they referred someone to our customers URL, since every time a user clicked that search result it gave the product away for free and would prove damages? For example

theirwebsite.com/directory/product1.pdf
theirwebsite.com/directory/product2.pdf
theirwebsite.com/directory/product3.pdf
...etc
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 6:09:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
We had a customer purchase thousands of copyrighted PDF's and upload it to their web server and put them into a public directory.

Google crawled their site and now if you search for our product in Google, our website shows up in the results as #1 and their PDF of the product shows up as #2. If you click on their link it opens the actual PDF.

Can we subpoena (or request) Google to tell us how many times they referred someone to our customers URL, since every time a user clicked that search result it gave the product away for free and would prove damages? For example

theirwebsite.com/directory/product1.pdf
theirwebsite.com/directory/product2.pdf
theirwebsite.com/directory/product3.pdf
...etc
View Quote


Not a lawyer. Hope you have lots of money set aside for legal fees. Would think you would list both the Customer and Google as co-defendants.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 6:12:24 PM EDT
[#2]
DMCA takedown notice
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 6:44:22 PM EDT
[#3]
To be clear we don't want to sue Google, we want to work with Google and have them provide us with how many times their Google search sent someone directly to the PDF that they indexed, for example:

301 clicks - theirwebsite.com/directory/product1.pdf
104 clicks - theirwebsite.com/directory/product2.pdf
502 clicks - theirwebsite.com/directory/product3.pdf
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 6:47:20 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
DMCA takedown notice
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This right here.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 6:47:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Was the website coded properly to tell Google not to index it?
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 6:55:17 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:


This right here.
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View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
DMCA takedown notice


This right here.


Thank you. After I file a DMCA notice, would Google cooperate to let me know how many times their indexed links to copyrighted material was accessed?
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 6:56:25 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
Was the website coded properly to tell Google not to index it?
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Nope.

The client is cooperating and has now taken it down, however its been up for a long time and we are backtracking to find ways to see how many people may have downloaded it
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 6:59:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
We had a customer purchase thousands of copyrighted PDF's and upload it to their web server and put them into a public directory.

Google crawled their site and now if you search for our product in Google, our website shows up in the results as #1 and their PDF of the product shows up as #2. If you click on their link it opens the actual PDF.

Can we subpoena (or request) Google to tell us how many times they referred someone to our customers URL, since every time a user clicked that search result it gave the product away for free and would prove damages? For example

theirwebsite.com/directory/product1.pdf
theirwebsite.com/directory/product2.pdf
theirwebsite.com/directory/product3.pdf
...etc
View Quote


Links not working.

Link Posted: 2/16/2017 6:59:47 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:


Thank you. After I file a DMCA notice, would Google cooperate to let me know how many times their indexed links to copyrighted material was accessed?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
DMCA takedown notice


This right here.


Thank you. After I file a DMCA notice, would Google cooperate to let me know how many times their indexed links to copyrighted material was accessed?


It looks like a DMCA takedown notice only applies if the client isnt cooperating. They have since taken down the files. Now I need to find a way to get Google to tell me how many times these files were clicked/referred to the clients website.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 7:17:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It looks like a DMCA takedown notice only applies if the client isnt cooperating. They have since taken down the files. Now I need to find a way to get Google to tell me how many times these files were clicked/referred to the clients website.
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Google isn't going to tell you anything.  They'll comply with a court order but they may not have detailed info like that, and besides, clicks on Google search results are only part of the picture.  There are other search engines, and how do you know they didn't sent a direct link to those files to thousands of people in a mass email, completely bypassing the search engines.

What you need is a court order for the webmaster to hand over their reporting.  If they have Google Analytics or something else setup, the webmaster will have detailed reports on everything.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 7:19:06 PM EDT
[#11]
they are not going to comply with your request
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 7:19:47 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:


Nope.

The client is cooperating and has now taken it down, however its been up for a long time and we are backtracking to find ways to see how many people may have downloaded it
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If they are cooperating they you just need to parse the access logs for the web server to show how many times the files were accessed.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 7:23:47 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
To be clear we don't want to sue Google, we want to work with Google and have them provide us with how many times their Google search sent someone directly to the PDF that they indexed, for example:

301 clicks - theirwebsite.com/directory/product1.pdf
104 clicks - theirwebsite.com/directory/product2.pdf
502 clicks - theirwebsite.com/directory/product3.pdf
View Quote


In theory, yes you can, though getting the data on the specific user is trickier (and it sounds like you don't need it).  1st step, which had better be f'ing quick, is a preservation notice to google telling them to preserve data which may be subject to subpeona.  I'd have my sharks send them a notice and try to get a quick judgment from a court requiring the preservation.

Despite what people think, that data isn't really held long term in a format that would allow reconstruction of things like hit count.  Not like you'd think, anyway.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 7:24:41 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
Was the website coded properly to tell Google not to index it?
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It's not HIS website that google crawled and is serving the full PDF. It's his (former) customer's.  It's a pretty straightforward fair use violation.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 7:25:06 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:


Thank you. After I file a DMCA notice, would Google cooperate to let me know how many times their indexed links to copyrighted material was accessed?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
DMCA takedown notice


This right here.


Thank you. After I file a DMCA notice, would Google cooperate to let me know how many times their indexed links to copyrighted material was accessed?


Not without a judge telling them to do so.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 7:25:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Why not look at the website host and see what they have? They should have access info.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 8:01:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


In theory, yes you can, though getting the data on the specific user is trickier (and it sounds like you don't need it).  1st step, which had better be f'ing quick, is a preservation notice to google telling them to preserve data which may be subject to subpeona.  I'd have my sharks send them a notice and try to get a quick judgment from a court requiring the preservation.

Despite what people think, that data isn't really held long term in a format that would allow reconstruction of things like hit count.  Not like you'd think, anyway.
View Quote


Thanks... from your experience how hard is it to get a court order? We are vetting lawyers for this now, we ask one of them to file to get a court order with the county. Because they took down the files, does this imply guilt?
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 8:03:44 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
Why not look at the website host and see what they have? They should have access info.
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Sure we would have to request it, and they would have to give it voluntarily and then trust it wasnt tampered with, right?

Or get lawyers involved and a court order, where if they tampered with any logs it would now be illegal, right?
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 8:06:08 PM EDT
[#19]
You aren't going to get squat without an attorney anyways. Google laughs at subpoenas all of the time!

The website host would be a better chance.
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 8:20:49 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
You aren't going to get squat without an attorney anyways. Google laughs at subpoenas all of the time!

The website host would be a better chance.
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Thanks
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 8:54:00 PM EDT
[#21]
I'm curious what you intend to do with the information if you get it. What are you going to do sue everyone who downloaded the PDF?
Link Posted: 2/16/2017 9:39:58 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
I'm curious what you intend to do with the information if you get it. What are you going to do sue everyone who downloaded the PDF?
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I would imagine that he plans to ask the website that hosted them for compensation.  Suppose he sells these for $5, and has proof that 100 people accessed the file, that they illegally hosted.  He can ask them for $500 in lost revenue, and would likely win in a court case.  Look at this as an example.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/mar/11/use-google-images-website
Link Posted: 2/17/2017 12:06:07 AM EDT
[#23]
OP request
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