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Posted: 4/24/2014 7:16:28 PM EDT
With all the LEO abusing their powers in the news lately, at what point can you defend yourself? Like the guy who told the cop 'Fuck you' and the cop pushed him over a car and started beating on him.

The guy getting handcuffed for not showing a DL, showed a military ID instead, on his front porch and filming the incident.

Im being serious, yes I know its GD, but seriously at what point can you fight back? Or can you? What if the abuse of power was being filmed?
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:18:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2014 7:18:48 PM EDT by Shockergd]
Lawyers + media

Cause enough of a problem and you've got a good chance of shutting down a smaller department through suits, funding cuts or media causing problems.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:18:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shadowmaker1969:
With all the LEO abusing their powers in the news lately, at what point can you defend yourself? Like the guy who told the cop 'Fuck you' and the cop pushed him over a car and started beating on him.

The guy getting handcuffed for not showing a DL, showed a military ID instead, on his front porch and filming the incident.

Im being serious, yes I know its GD, but seriously at what point can you fight back? Or can you? What if the abuse of power was being filmed?
View Quote


You can't.

You can hope to god you video tape it and then sue.

If you try to defend yourself against a cop they will kill you and walk away with a good old badge and a slap on the back. That's whats so scary about the entire situation and the rampant abuse of power.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:18:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shadowmaker1969:
With all the LEO abusing their powers in the news lately, at what point can you defend yourself? Like the guy who told the cop 'Fuck you' and the cop pushed him over a car and started beating on him.

The guy getting handcuffed for not showing a DL, showed a military ID instead, on his front porch and filming the incident.

Im being serious, yes I know its GD, but seriously at what point can you fight back? Or can you? What if the abuse of power was being filmed?
View Quote

Of course you can.
With a lawyer, in court after they probe your rectum - for your safety and the safety of children everywhere
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:19:45 PM EDT
You can in Georgia against unlawful arrest. No, I'm not going to google it for you.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:22:19 PM EDT
You're free to fight it out with the cops anytime. People do it all over the country, everyday. Winning that fight, including the court battle is the real challenge.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:23:25 PM EDT
Of course you can.

Whether you survive the encounter is what's in question.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:23:45 PM EDT
This is going to be a hoot
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:24:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fig:
You can in Georgia against unlawful arrest. No, I'm not going to google it for you.
View Quote


The problem is, by the time it was known that it was justified, it would probably be nothing more than a settlement for the family that was left behind.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:24:45 PM EDT
...I've ALWAYS wondered this...
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:25:34 PM EDT
In before the resident abuse of power apologists.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:29:13 PM EDT
I like where this is going
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:29:17 PM EDT
Sure, if you just kick the officer in the shin, you get to go home and nobody will come look for you later.



Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:30:43 PM EDT
I shot the sheriff, but I didn't shoot the deputy.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:30:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pony151515:


The problem is, by the time it was known that it was justified, it would probably be nothing more than a settlement for the family that was left behind.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pony151515:
Originally Posted By Fig:
You can in Georgia against unlawful arrest. No, I'm not going to google it for you.


The problem is, by the time it was known that it was justified, it would probably be nothing more than a settlement for the family that was left behind.


Yep, you better know the law very well to even consider it and have well hidden cameras.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:32:13 PM EDT
Do it bro!
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:32:48 PM EDT
Nooooope.

Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:33:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2014 7:51:38 PM EDT by Erkeric]
There is a portion of the use of force and use of deadly force sections in the Texas penal code that allows for use of force/deadly force to protect yourself from LEO. Ill see if I can find it.

Edit: I could have sworn there was more (was just looking through the penal code for a paper and saw it)

Texas Penal Code
Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE.
(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is justified:
(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use of greater force than necessary.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:35:22 PM EDT
Resist!
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:37:50 PM EDT
fucking in
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:38:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2014 7:38:50 PM EDT by servicepuke1]
The donut defense...works every time.

Except for the trunk monkey.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:38:47 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Erkeric:
There is a portion of the use of force and use of deadly force sections in the Texas penal code that allows for use of force/deadly force to protect yourself from LEO. Ill see if I can find it
View Quote
while it may be there it has never been used successfuly
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:40:26 PM EDT
You can't. Their bullshit reports alone will sink you.


Hope what they do is on video and sue.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:40:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2014 7:43:35 PM EDT by Techsan02]
Nope. You're at their beck and call, unless you want to be tazed or shot. Unless you have excellent video evidence, you won't win in court either. It's your statement vs. theirs otherwise, and they have the shiny badge and GED, so they win.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:41:34 PM EDT
So there you are, standing victorious after fighting off a LEO. Now what? You can't stay there... death from afar (radio) is on it's way, and heaven help you if they show up to see you standing over the body of a 'brother'. What to do, what to do? Leave the scene for self-preservation? Then what? Turn yourself in... to more LEO?

Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:42:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2014 7:42:39 PM EDT by MrGreenJeans]
I'd argue that there is a lot LESS police brutality than even 20 years ago.... but due to modern cell phones, cams, etc. you see it more on the news than back then.

So...calm down Nancy boy aka OP.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:42:48 PM EDT
they kill you and call it a good shoot.

Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:44:03 PM EDT
No citizen. You must assimilate...
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:44:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shadowmaker1969:
With all the LEO abusing their powers in the news lately, at what point can you defend yourself? Like the guy who told the cop 'Fuck you' and the cop pushed him over a car and started beating on him.

The guy getting handcuffed for not showing a DL, showed a military ID instead, on his front porch and filming the incident.

Im being serious, yes I know its GD, but seriously at what point can you fight back? Or can you? What if the abuse of power was being filmed?
View Quote

At the same point you can when you're being attacked by any other person. Any amount of unlawful force can and should be resisted with an appropriate level of force.
You're under no obligation to allow a cop to murder you, for example.

Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:46:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shadowmaker1969:
Can you defend yourself against LE?
View Quote


Yes, repeat after me:

"On the advice of council, I decline to answer, and invoke my 5th Amendment rights."
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:48:15 PM EDT
You can. Better gtfo of there head to Somalia.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:48:25 PM EDT
Better hope there are plenty of witnesses and/or a working camera nearby.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:48:32 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wwace:
while it may be there it has never been used successfuly
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wwace:
Originally Posted By Erkeric:
There is a portion of the use of force and use of deadly force sections in the Texas penal code that allows for use of force/deadly force to protect yourself from LEO. Ill see if I can find it
while it may be there it has never been used successfuly

Maybe not the statute he's talking about, but there was a guy that killed a deputy during a no-knock raid a few months back, and it was a good (at least justifiable) shoot.

Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:56:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 7:57:41 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 72826:

Maybe not the statute he's talking about, but there was a guy that killed a deputy during a no-knock raid a few months back, and it was a good (at least justifiable) shoot.

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 72826:
Originally Posted By wwace:
Originally Posted By Erkeric:
There is a portion of the use of force and use of deadly force sections in the Texas penal code that allows for use of force/deadly force to protect yourself from LEO. Ill see if I can find it
while it may be there it has never been used successfuly

Maybe not the statute he's talking about, but there was a guy that killed a deputy during a no-knock raid a few months back, and it was a good (at least justifiable) shoot.


How on earth did he survive that??
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:07:13 PM EDT
You can fight off an unlawful arrest in self defense, but you better be damn sure you're in the right or you;re looking at a charge of resisting arrest.

Most likely, the best course of action would be to ride it out, and go after them with a lawyer once the dust settles.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:07:17 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Badseed:

How on earth did he survive that??
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Originally Posted By Badseed:
Originally Posted By 72826:
Originally Posted By wwace:
Originally Posted By Erkeric:
There is a portion of the use of force and use of deadly force sections in the Texas penal code that allows for use of force/deadly force to protect yourself from LEO. Ill see if I can find it
while it may be there it has never been used successfuly

Maybe not the statute he's talking about, but there was a guy that killed a deputy during a no-knock raid a few months back, and it was a good (at least justifiable) shoot.


How on earth did he survive that??

Contrary to what most people here believe, cops arn't usually that trigger happy.

Easy way to end up in prison or at the very least lose your job and never work for a PD again by shooting a suspect (even if he just shot another officer) who is no longer a threat.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:11:01 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Badseed:

How on earth did he survive that??
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Badseed:
Originally Posted By 72826:
Originally Posted By wwace:
Originally Posted By Erkeric:
There is a portion of the use of force and use of deadly force sections in the Texas penal code that allows for use of force/deadly force to protect yourself from LEO. Ill see if I can find it
while it may be there it has never been used successfuly

Maybe not the statute he's talking about, but there was a guy that killed a deputy during a no-knock raid a few months back, and it was a good (at least justifiable) shoot.


How on earth did he survive that??

I'm guessing he stopped shooting and dropped the gun when he realized they were cops, and the rest of them didn't feel like committing murder. He got charged for the pot though, so he's still kind of fucked.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:12:34 PM EDT
In Arizona, it is a crime to resist an arrest. Even an unlawful one:

13-2508. Resisting arrest; classification; definition
A. A person commits resisting arrest by intentionally preventing or attempting to prevent a person reasonably known to him to be a peace officer, acting under color of such peace officer's official authority, from effecting an arrest by:

1. Using or threatening to use physical force against the peace officer or another.

2. Using any other means creating a substantial risk of causing physical injury to the peace officer or another.

3. Engaging in passive resistance.

B. Resisting arrest pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 1 or 2 of this section is a class 6 felony. Resisting arrest pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 3 of this section is a class 1 misdemeanor.

C. For the purposes of this section, "passive resistance" means a nonviolent physical act or failure to act that is intended to impede, hinder or delay the effecting of an arrest.

View Quote

However, there is an exception found in the Justification statutes:

13-404. Justification; self-defense
A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, a person is justified in threatening or using physical force against another when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force.

B. The threat or use of physical force against another is not justified:

1. In response to verbal provocation alone; or

2. To resist an arrest that the person knows or should know is being made by a peace officer or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, whether the arrest is lawful or unlawful, unless the physical force used by the peace officer exceeds that allowed by law; or

3. If the person provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force, unless:

(a) The person withdraws from the encounter or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely withdraw from the encounter; and

(b) The other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful physical force against the person.

View Quote

So...when could you fight when the cops? When you can prove to a jury that they were using excessive force.*



Good luck with that.



*Yes I know that Arizona law holds that once the defendant has introduced the slightest evidence that he acted in self-defense, it is the State's burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self- defense.

Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:13:58 PM EDT
It's like doing business with the mob.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:16:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2014 8:17:04 PM EDT by criio1]
Originally Posted By shadowmaker1969:


The guy getting handcuffed for not showing a DL, showed a military ID instead, on his front porch and filming the incident.
View Quote




http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_34/557203_Onslow_County_Deputy_Loses_her_S_________.html
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:16:36 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fig:
You can in Georgia against unlawful arrest. No, I'm not going to google it for you.
View Quote


Yep.

Problem is, if the officer is certain of his ways, you're screwed until after he's down. However, that could mean jackpot for you.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:19:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shadowmaker1969:
With all the LEO abusing their powers in the news lately, at what point can you defend yourself? Like the guy who told the cop 'Fuck you' and the cop pushed him over a car and started beating on him.

The guy getting handcuffed for not showing a DL, showed a military ID instead, on his front porch and filming the incident.

Im being serious, yes I know its GD, but seriously at what point can you fight back? Or can you? What if the abuse of power was being filmed?
View Quote


You could always get creative and read the statutes in your state....
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:20:38 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By David4327:
It's like doing business with the mob.
View Quote

At this point, this is how I feel.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:20:47 PM EDT
Even if you win you will end up losing; time, money, livelihood, etc.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:24:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2014 8:31:04 PM EDT by USP45Tim]
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:25:18 PM EDT
No, you may not defend yourself from distraction techniques.

Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:26:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2014 8:28:31 PM EDT by duhflushtech]
You can do a lot of things.

I've always said that it's better to get paid in court if what the cops did was unlawful. *shrug*
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:29:02 PM EDT
I just cry like a girl.
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 8:31:10 PM EDT
Yes If you live to tell the tale of the ass whooping you put on a cop.....Maybe.

Cops these days are quick to shoot first ( use deadly force ) for about any perceived threat.
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