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Posted: 1/12/2005 5:35:03 PM EDT
In August, 2003 Miss X, then 14 yoa and sexually active for 2 years, spent a weekend in a menage-a-trois with Mr. Jones (aged 30-something) and his wife. In November 2003, Miss X's parents found that she was having cybersex with older men and had been sending out nude pictures of herself over the web. They cut off her computer access, and she ran away.

Hitchhiking, she met Mr. Wilson, a 46 yo introvert and misfit. She said (plausibly) that she was 18. They spent a long weekend having sex. Mr. Wilson described her as "strangely aggressive, sexually." On November 10, 2003, the police, responding to a missing persons complaint, found Miss X at Mr. Wilson's house. Mr. Wilson admitted having sex with Miss X, then 15 yoa. On February 6, 2004, Mr. Wilson pled guilty to Lewd or Lascivious Molestation and was sentenced to 4 years in state prison. With credit for time served prior to sentencing, he'll be out in 2006.

A week later, on February 13, 2004, Miss X initiated cybersex with Mr. Johnson in a chat room. She text-messaged him over his cell phone more than 40 times in two days, and requested a face-to-face meeting, in a public place, with 2 of her friends present. She called him "baby" and "honey" in the text messages. He hesitated and almost begged off, but met her as she requested. It was 40 degrees. She was not wearing a jacket. He wanted to see what she looked like, and to tell her to stay off the phone, because their "relationship" was only computer fun and games and she was threatening a good life.

They walked away from her friends, and he told her what was on his mind. They got near his van. She shivered. He asked her in. She kissed him, and begged him to sit beside her. He refused. She asked him to f**k her. He said he had no condoms, though he'd just come from grocery shopping and had a box of them in the van. He became alarmed by her seductive behavior, which he said was "beyond bizarre." Meanwhile, the friends had called the police. When he turned away from her, she said "Look, baby, I shaved my p*ssy for you. You know you want it." He looked back. Her crotch was shaved. He knew this because her pants were down around her ankles. He saw a police car behind the van. He was arrested for Lewd or Lascivious Molestation. He made no statement to the police. She said he fondled her genitals. He said she was a perversely aggressive nutjob and he never touched her.

Miss X later gave her best friend's father a blowjob.

Today, a judge said "Mr. Johnson, the jury having found you 'Not Guilty,' I adjudge you to be not guilty and exonerate your sureties. You are free to go."

The lessons: trust no one; keep your mouth shut; hire a brilliant trial lawyer.

Thank you for your attention.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 6:38:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2005 6:39:09 PM EDT by Zhukov]
That's a sad story all the way around.

Guy, even if he got off (legally speaking), should know better than to even get near an underage girl.

Girl? All hope is lost there I'm afraid.

It does bring up the question: Who is the predator, and who is the prey in this scenario?
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 6:46:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 6:54:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
There are some really screwed up women out there.



Why can't I find one?
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 6:57:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By last-rites:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
There are some really screwed up women out there.


Why can't I find one?


You aren't looking.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 6:59:00 PM EDT
That's the sickest thing I have ever heard in my life.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 7:10:25 PM EDT
The guy didnt exactly get off, it cost him money here. Probaly one day this girl will attempt this on someone who didnt have much to lose before, and really has nothing to lose now and something horrible (depending on your point of view of course) will happen to her, and maybe others around here, but thats going to depends on who she pushed over the edge.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 7:22:44 PM EDT
Did the guy really know he was getting near an underage girl?

"The guilty never escape unscathed, my fees are punishment enough for anyone" - F. Lee Bailey
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 7:29:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Today, a judge said "Mr. Johnson, the jury having found you 'Not Guilty,' I adjudge you to be not guilty and exonerate your sureties. You are free to go."

The lessons: trust no one; keep your mouth shut; hire a brilliant trial lawyer.

Thank you for your attention.



You? If so, someone earned their fees on that one. That and a few cases of their favorite hard liquor.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 7:39:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2005 7:41:07 PM EDT by FLAL1A]

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Today, a judge said "Mr. Johnson, the jury having found you 'Not Guilty,' I adjudge you to be not guilty and exonerate your sureties. You are free to go."

The lessons: trust no one; keep your mouth shut; hire a brilliant trial lawyer.

Thank you for your attention.



You? If so, someone earned their fees on that one. That and a few cases of their favorite hard liquor.




Well, since you asked, yes. It was I. Best comment: 70+ year bailiff says "Mighty fine argument, Mr. L1A." "Well, thank you." "When you were done, Mr. L1A, my only question was 'Where do I go to hear him preach?'"

So, I guess the final lesson is this: if you're caught in a van with a shaved-twat 15 year old girl with her pants around her ankles, and you'd rather not go to prison, IM me.

Seriously, when the verdict came back, the client almost collapsed. I leaned over and said "God has done this for you. You had best figure out what it is He's trying to tell you."
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 7:47:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 7:52:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taxman:
The guy didnt exactly get off, it cost him money here. Probaly one day this girl will attempt this on someone who didnt have much to lose before, and really has nothing to lose now and something horrible (depending on your point of view of course) will happen to her, and maybe others around here, but thats going to depends on who she pushed over the edge.





I can see her getting hacked up.

And sadly enough, this is a case where 4 shots to her head should be ruled suicide!
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 7:54:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
As much as I originally hated the law when I discovered it, Texas has made a provision in its Statutory Rape laws that would directly address the situation.

IF the 'victim' is 14 years of age or older, it is a DEFENSE to the charge of Statutory Rape IF it can be proved that the 'victim' was 'promiscuous'!

This actually defeats the very purpose of what Statutory Rape laws were designed to prevent - letting the accused off because of the lack of discernment of the 'victim', due to her tender years!

The Judge must also permit the Accused to use this defense, but in the case outlined above, it would be 'reversible error' if the Judge didn't permit the testimony of that young lady's unrestrained promiscuity!

All in all, a lousy situation all around.

I can well imagine spending $50,000.00 to defend such a case.

And if you win, you know how much of that monty is refunded?

Eric The(StiflingAGutBustingLaugh)Hun



Brace yourself, ETH. Fla law specifically says:

The victim's consent is not a defense. The victim's prior unchastity is not a defense. The victim's misrepresentation of her age is not a defense. The defendant's good faith belief that the victim was of legal age is not a defense. See why I am pleased and grateful to the Almighty for the verdict? BTW, after an acquittal, the defendant can recover costs (but not fees ) from the state.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:01:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
So, I guess the final lesson is this: if you're caught in a van with a shaved-twat 15 year old girl with her pants around her ankles, and you'd rather not go to prison, IM me.



It's too bad you don't practice in NH. I come across patients like that 'girl' every now and then. In all fairness, most were sexually brutalized and didn't start out all screwed up. I never see patients under 18 without a parent in the room. If I get bad vibes from a patient >18 then the door stays half open where my nurse has a good view of the room from her desk.


Originally Posted By Taxman:
The guy didnt exactly get off, it cost him money here. Probaly one day this girl will attempt this on someone who didnt have much to lose before, and really has nothing to lose now and something horrible (depending on your point of view of course) will happen to her, and maybe others around here, but thats going to depends on who she pushed over the edge.



Whatever it cost him, it was worth it. I'd give up everything I owned to stay out of prison. Who wouldn't? Also, 'girls' like that are cunning and know exactly who to target.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:02:05 PM EDT
Do you do family law , or just criminal?
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:03:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:


Originally Posted By Taxman:
The guy didnt exactly get off, it cost him money here. Probaly one day this girl will attempt this on someone who didnt have much to lose before, and really has nothing to lose now and something horrible (depending on your point of view of course) will happen to her, and maybe others around here, but thats going to depends on who she pushed over the edge.



Whatever it cost him, it was worth it. I'd give up everything I owned to stay out of prison. Who wouldn't? Also, 'girls' like that are cunning and know exactly who to target.



Well I dont have much, and I have worked for that, if Im going to lose it I dont see alot of reason to keep on. Im not going into details due to obvious reasons.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:04:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:
Do you do family law , or just criminal?



Oddly enough, I do a huge amount of family law, mostly custody.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:04:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
So, I guess the final lesson is this: if you're caught in a van with a shaved-twat 15 year old girl with her pants around her ankles, and you'd rather not go to prison, IM me.



<scribbles furiously>


Seriously, when the verdict came back, the client almost collapsed. I leaned over and said "God has done this for you. You had best figure out what it is He's trying to tell you."


Ain't that the truth!
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:05:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taxman:

Originally Posted By C-4:


Originally Posted By Taxman:
The guy didnt exactly get off, it cost him money here. Probaly one day this girl will attempt this on someone who didnt have much to lose before, and really has nothing to lose now and something horrible (depending on your point of view of course) will happen to her, and maybe others around here, but thats going to depends on who she pushed over the edge.



Whatever it cost him, it was worth it. I'd give up everything I owned to stay out of prison. Who wouldn't? Also, 'girls' like that are cunning and know exactly who to target.



Well I dont have much, and I have worked for that, if Im going to lose it I dont see alot of reason to keep on. Im not going into details due to obvious reasons.



Not everybody gets charged full freight. Some people pay little or nothing. That's true for any lawyer whose office isn't on Wall Street.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:09:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Brace yourself, ETH. Fla law specifically says:

The victim's consent is not a defense. The victim's prior unchastity is not a defense. The victim's misrepresentation of her age is not a defense. The defendant's good faith belief that the victim was of legal age is not a defense. See why I am pleased and grateful to the Almighty for the verdict? BTW, after an acquittal, the defendant can recover costs (but not fees ) from the state.



Did I mention that reading the law makes me puke sometimes?
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:12:48 PM EDT
Good job. I remember a thread posted by you a while back concerning this. Pat yourself on the back.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:13:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2005 8:20:50 PM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:16:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:
Do you do family law , or just criminal?



Oddly enough, I do a huge amount of family law, mostly custody.

You haven't taken the Alaska Bar by chance have you?
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:19:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:
Do you do family law , or just criminal?



Oddly enough, I do a huge amount of family law, mostly custody.

You haven't taken the Alaska Bar by chance have you?


No, but there's a thing called "Appearance pro hac vice," where one associates with a local attorney and conducts a specific case. If you have an issue, IM me and I'll send you contact info.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:23:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taxman:
Well I dont have much, and I have worked for that, if Im going to lose it I dont see alot of reason to keep on. Im not going into details due to obvious reasons.



If I ran out of money to pay the lawyers, the barrel of my pistol would be in my mouth faster than you could say 'boo'. Being brutalized daily isn't a way to live.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:24:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2005 8:26:02 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:25:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:26:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By Taxman:
Well I dont have much, and I have worked for that, if Im going to lose it I dont see alot of reason to keep on. Im not going into details due to obvious reasons.



If I ran out of money to pay the lawyers, the barrel of my pistol would be in my mouth faster than you could say 'boo'. Being brutalized daily isn't a way to live.




Same here, if this girl ever pushes someone to that I expect they will take her with them.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:26:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
What I got from this--

If I don't meet/screw strangers, I can save a butt-load of money/grief/embarrassment. Got it. And it was free--thanks much.




And just so it's clear, TRG and TxRedneck are not strangers to anyone on Arfcom.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:27:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

I can well imagine spending $50,000.00 to defend such a case.

And if you win, you know how much of that monty is refunded?

Eric The(StiflingAGutBustingLaugh)Hun



Sorry Eric, I find it reprehensible that justice comes at a monetary price. It's bad enough that life-giving medical science does too.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:29:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:29:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taxman:

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By Taxman:
Well I dont have much, and I have worked for that, if Im going to lose it I dont see alot of reason to keep on. Im not going into details due to obvious reasons.



If I ran out of money to pay the lawyers, the barrel of my pistol would be in my mouth faster than you could say 'boo'. Being brutalized daily isn't a way to live.




Same here, if this girl ever pushes someone to that I expect they will take her with them.



I hope that person will contact me and/or ETH for his free Arfcom consultation before taking any irreversible action.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:32:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:36:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By junker46:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

I can well imagine spending $50,000.00 to defend such a case.

And if you win, you know how much of that monty is refunded?

Eric The(StiflingAGutBustingLaugh)Hun



Sorry Eric, I find it reprehensible that justice comes at a monetary price. It's bad enough that life-giving medical science does too.



I wrestle with that, and I guarantee ETH does, too. What's the answer? I have skills that (1) God gave me and (2) I honed at great expense to myself which, to be blunt, are often leagues beyond anything my opponents bring to the field. A certain part of me wishes that I could live in a grass hut and wear a hair shirt and come out when innocence is threatened and use the tools God gave me in service to truth, accepting only a glass of water and a bowl of gruel for my effort. Another part says that my wife has as much right to fart through silk as the developer's wife has; that my kids should see the world as a generous place, just as the plumber's kids do. So, you tell me. What's the answer?

Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:45:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2005 8:45:49 PM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:48:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By junker46:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

I can well imagine spending $50,000.00 to defend such a case.

And if you win, you know how much of that monty is refunded?

Eric The(StiflingAGutBustingLaugh)Hun



Sorry Eric, I find it reprehensible that justice comes at a monetary price. It's bad enough that life-giving medical science does too.



Are we living on the same planet? Service = Fee. You can always go with a public defender. You get what you pay for in life. That concept hasn't sunk in yet for some people. Why would it be different with a lawyer? If I ever get into legal trouble, I'm finding the best private attorney money can buy. As far as refunds: a doctor still charges even if the patient dies. Why would a lawyer give someone a refund?
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 9:12:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:
Do you do family law , or just criminal?



Oddly enough, I do a huge amount of family law, mostly custody.

You haven't taken the Alaska Bar by chance have you?


No, but there's a thing called "Appearance pro hac vice," where one associates with a local attorney and conducts a specific case. If you have an issue, IM me and I'll send you contact info.


Noted for future reference .
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 9:43:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:
...Service = Fee. You can always go with a public defender. You get what you pay for in life....



I have absolutely no problem with ETH and FLAL1A charging and charging well for their services.

I think the problem that many of us have is that more often than not our present system provides no justice for those represented by the public defender. That problem being that justice apparently has a price. The truth of the matter is that if the defendant represented by the PD receives no justice, then the system as a whole is broken.

Link Posted: 1/12/2005 10:22:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:
Are we living on the same planet? Service = Fee. You can always go with a public defender. You get what you pay for in life. That concept hasn't sunk in yet for some people. Why would it be different with a lawyer? If I ever get into legal trouble, I'm finding the best private attorney money can buy. As far as refunds: a doctor still charges even if the patient dies. Why would a lawyer give someone a refund?



ok, let's sum it up: wealth=freedom, good health and life, poverty= incarceration, poor health and death.

To FLA: I have no ready answer.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:26:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 7:09:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 7:10:06 AM EDT by Zhukov]
The thing that irks me about the whole thing is that on one hand, we're trying to protect our "children" at all costs. That's all fine and dandy in more innocent times, but we all know that there are girls out there (few, hopefully), who act like this girl. Is it correct to give her full immunity before the law while making the other party solely responsible? That just doesn't make any sense. So the law says - you can screw hundreds of people your own age, and that's perfectly legal, but one older guy - bam - he goes off to Federal "Bang me in the ass prison" because the underage person didn't "know what they were doing"? Again - I'm not advocating it, or saying it's OK, but just putting it into perspective.

I have a young daughter myself, and I will try my damndest to make sure she grows up into a fine young lady but at some point in time, my influence on her will be reduced to the point where I just have to hope for the best. God help me when that day comes. [>Q]
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 8:17:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zhukov:
It does bring up the question: Who is the predator, and who is the prey in this scenario?




Bingo! It sounds like the real problem in this situation is Miss X.


A predator operating under the protection of the state while she is a minor female.


This just goes to show you guys; be careful out there. There are some really good women out there, and there are some really LOONY ones.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 8:24:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

It's Texas law on the subject that is so very different from any other state's!




Texas! It's like a whole 'nother country!


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