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Posted: 9/30/2011 7:11:17 AM EST
As per "The Tenth Amendment (Amendment X) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791.[1] The Tenth Amendment states the Constitution's principle of federalism by providing that powers not granted to the federal government nor prohibited to the states by the Constitution are reserved, respectively, to the states or the people."

So, can the federal government issue traffic citations, DUI, etc, etc, legally under the constitution? I don't even think commerce clause can cover this one, unless you're talking about the revenue they are generating.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:13:07 AM EST
Yes. Speed in any national park or wildlife area and find out.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:13:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 7:13:55 AM EST by Garand_Shooter]
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:14:01 AM EST
MPs and SPs can give you one too.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:14:49 AM EST
Under whose jurisdiction does the Blue Ridge Parkway, for instance, fall?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:14:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 7:15:25 AM EST by OiRogers]
Originally Posted By Plumbata:
Yes. Speed in any national park or wildlife area and find out.


I'm willing to bet those officers are cross sworn in the state the are working in... The citations are probably under state code not federal law.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:16:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By Plumbata:
Yes. Speed in any national park or wildlife area and find out.


I understand that they do, I've seen it done, but should they be able to, constitutionally? That's my question.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:22:06 AM EST
Go speed on a military installation and find out...
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:23:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By rollingtrouble13:
Go speed on a military installation and find out...


And by "speeding" that means 22 in a 20.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:23:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By OiRogers:
Originally Posted By Plumbata:
Yes. Speed in any national park or wildlife area and find out.


I'm willing to bet those officers are cross sworn in the state the are working in... The citations are probably under state code not federal law.



Nope, had to deal with several on the Padre Island National Seashore. Federal ticket, Federal docket, Federal courthouse.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:29:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:30:09 AM EST
Unless you have sufficient funds to pay attorneys all the way to the Supreme Court you will never know will you. The rest of us will slow down or pay the fine.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:30:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By rollingtrouble13:
Go speed on a military installation and find out...


I've done so, I had a lead foot during my time on Camp Pendleton, but the constitution doesn't give these powers to the fed, so is it legal?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:31:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By Deej86:
Under whose jurisdiction does the Blue Ridge Parkway, for instance, fall?


US Park Police would be my bet. They patrol the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, which is under National Park Service control, as is the Blue Ridge Parkway.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:31:27 AM EST
BIA Police do it here all the time
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:33:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
Originally Posted By rollingtrouble13:
Go speed on a military installation and find out...


And by "speeding" that means 22 in a 20.


You get the warning at 21.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:38:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gunlvr007:
Originally Posted By rollingtrouble13:
Go speed on a military installation and find out...


I've done so, I had a lead foot during my time on Camp Pendleton, but the constitution doesn't give these powers to the fed, so is it legal?


The Constitution doesn't specifically give the Federal government the power to issue traffic citations on Federal land because such things did not exist at the time.
The Constitution does not authorize an air force either.
Is the Air Force unconstitutional?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:41:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
Originally Posted By rollingtrouble13:
Go speed on a military installation and find out...


And by "speeding" that means 22 in a 20.


You get the warning at 21.



That is entirely dependent on the goodwill of the Installation Commander's wife.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:50:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
Originally Posted By Gunlvr007:
Originally Posted By rollingtrouble13:
Go speed on a military installation and find out...


I've done so, I had a lead foot during my time on Camp Pendleton, but the constitution doesn't give these powers to the fed, so is it legal?


The Constitution doesn't specifically give the Federal government the power to issue traffic citations on Federal land because such things did not exist at the time.
The Constitution does not authorize an air force either.
Is the Air Force unconstitutional?


Article 1, section 8 authorizes congress to raise armies and declare war. The method of conducting war is not described.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 7:53:35 AM EST
the Feds can do any fucking thing they want.
If there is no law, they will make one up
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:00:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By TruckinAR:
the Feds can do any fucking thing they want.
If there is no law, they will make one up


I would have been skeptical until right after Katrina, 2005, I saw armed, black suited, jack booted, skin heads running up and down I-40 between DC and the Katrina Theater, 80-90 MPH, in white SUVs clearly labeled with giant letters and shields "Federal Police". So, yes, they can and will do about anything they want, with or without your prior approval.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 8:18:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By Deej86:
Under whose jurisdiction does the Blue Ridge Parkway, for instance, fall?


Where it runs through Federal lands, NPS. Where it runs through State lands, the local jurisdiction.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 9:57:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By TebbieBear:
Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
Originally Posted By Gunlvr007:
Originally Posted By rollingtrouble13:
Go speed on a military installation and find out...


I've done so, I had a lead foot during my time on Camp Pendleton, but the constitution doesn't give these powers to the fed, so is it legal?


The Constitution doesn't specifically give the Federal government the power to issue traffic citations on Federal land because such things did not exist at the time.
The Constitution does not authorize an air force either.
Is the Air Force unconstitutional?


Article 1, section 8 authorizes congress to raise armies and declare war. The method of conducting war is not described.


It authorizes Congress to raise an army and to establish a navy. It does not mention an air force. Why? Because no such thing existed when the document was written.
If the Federal government is not empowered to issue traffic citations because the Constitution does not specifically grant it the power to do so, then logically, it can't establish an air force for the same reason.
Fortunately, more sensible minds have been entrusted with interpreting the constitution, so the Federal government can regulate traffic on Federal land.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 10:00:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
Originally Posted By Gunlvr007:
Originally Posted By rollingtrouble13:
Go speed on a military installation and find out...


I've done so, I had a lead foot during my time on Camp Pendleton, but the constitution doesn't give these powers to the fed, so is it legal?


The Constitution doesn't specifically give the Federal government the power to issue traffic citations on Federal land because such things did not exist at the time.
The Constitution does not authorize an air force either.
Is the Air Force unconstitutional?


In my opinion, TECHNICALLY, yes. There should have to be an amendment made to authorize the USAF, I say that with no regard to being a former Marine, I don't play interservice politics.

Of course I also think they should still be the Army Air Corps, c'est la vie.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 10:04:39 AM EST
Yes, under assimilated state statutes. Federal LEO's can write you for traffic violations and you will go to US District Court.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 10:08:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 10:08:54 AM EST by Gunlvr007]
Originally Posted By Boogie77:
Yes, under assimilated state statutes. Federal LEO's can write you for traffic violations and you will go to US District Court.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Where is that clause in the Constitution?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 10:12:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gunlvr007:
Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
Originally Posted By Gunlvr007:
Originally Posted By rollingtrouble13:
Go speed on a military installation and find out...


I've done so, I had a lead foot during my time on Camp Pendleton, but the constitution doesn't give these powers to the fed, so is it legal?


The Constitution doesn't specifically give the Federal government the power to issue traffic citations on Federal land because such things did not exist at the time.
The Constitution does not authorize an air force either.
Is the Air Force unconstitutional?


In my opinion, TECHNICALLY, yes. There should have to be an amendment made to authorize the USAF, I say that with no regard to being a former Marine, I don't play interservice politics.

Of course I also think they should still be the Army Air Corps, c'est la vie.


That seems overly rigid.
While I don't support the expansion of power of the Federal government where it clearly was denied that power, I hardly think that war making qualifies as such an area. Congress was given the power to make war on land and on the sea, which covered the waterfront in those days. It's reasonable to conclude that if other nations had established air forces at the time, the Constitution would have specifically authorized an air force. Further, there's no evidence that I can see that the citizen's liberty is more threatened by an independent air force that by the US Army Air Force, the Navy's planes, or the Marine's.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 10:21:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gunlvr007:
Originally Posted By Boogie77:
Yes, under assimilated state statutes. Federal LEO's can write you for traffic violations and you will go to US District Court.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Where is that clause in the Constitution?


Why do you expect the Constitution to specifically include things that did not exist when the Constitution was written? Also, why shouldn't the Federal Government be allowed to enforce the law in areas where they have legal jurisdiction? Doesn't Article 2, Section 3, Clause 4 require the President to enforce the law?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 10:28:41 AM EST
In federal enclaves, yes.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 10:30:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By OiRogers:
Originally Posted By Plumbata:
Yes. Speed in any national park or wildlife area and find out.


I'm willing to bet those officers are cross sworn in the state the are working in... The citations are probably under state code not federal law.


I don't think so. The protracted camping citations against the Rainbow Family for overstaying their welcome in the Osceola National Forest were all heard in federal court.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 10:32:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gunlvr007:
Originally Posted By Plumbata:
Yes. Speed in any national park or wildlife area and find out.


I understand that they do, I've seen it done, but should they be able to, constitutionally? That's my question.


There's no particular reason they should be able to except to recognize the feds' separarate sovereignty, but it's constitutionally permissible on federally-ruled territory.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 1:39:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By ApocalypseMao:
Originally Posted By Gunlvr007:
Originally Posted By Boogie77:
Yes, under assimilated state statutes. Federal LEO's can write you for traffic violations and you will go to US District Court.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Where is that clause in the Constitution?


Why do you expect the Constitution to specifically include things that did not exist when the Constitution was written? Also, why shouldn't the Federal Government be allowed to enforce the law in areas where they have legal jurisdiction? Doesn't Article 2, Section 3, Clause 4 require the President to enforce the law?


The constitution has been amended numerous times to account for new developments in society/technology, the founders accounted for that via the amendment process. I don't think that's an excuse or reason for not following the supreme law of the land.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 1:51:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gunlvr007:
Originally Posted By Boogie77:
Yes, under assimilated state statutes. Federal LEO's can write you for traffic violations and you will go to US District Court.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Where is that clause in the Constitution?


Artice II, Section 8, 17 and 18:

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;––And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 1:59:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By sigp226:
Originally Posted By Gunlvr007:
Originally Posted By Boogie77:
Yes, under assimilated state statutes. Federal LEO's can write you for traffic violations and you will go to US District Court.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Where is that clause in the Constitution?


Artice II, Section 8, 17 and 18:

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;––And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.


Your post made me think......"Purchased" "not exceeding 10 miles" Guess that would exclude most military installations as far as purchased goes. Purchased and 10 miles is exceeded for many national parks.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 2:03:32 PM EST
im an mp on Ft Campbell we follow 18 usc, kentucky, and tennessee code as well as ft campbell regs, and ucmj of course the latter 2 apply to mil only, my rule is 9 your fine 10 your mine. Most of the other MP's go by the same.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 2:06:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By BamaInArk:
Originally Posted By sigp226:

Artice II, Section 8, 17 and 18:



Your post made me think......"Purchased" "not exceeding 10 miles" Guess that would exclude most military installations as far as purchased goes. Purchased and 10 miles is exceeded for many national parks.



It's not well written. It would have been simpler if it was two sentences. It says Congress shall have the power ...

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States,

AND

to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;

The second clause is not dependent on the first.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 2:06:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By sigp226:
Originally Posted By Gunlvr007:
Originally Posted By Boogie77:
Yes, under assimilated state statutes. Federal LEO's can write you for traffic violations and you will go to US District Court.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Where is that clause in the Constitution?


Artice II, Section 8, 17 and 18:

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;––And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.


That doesn't say anything about what I originally inquired about. Unless you're asserting that the "... necessary and proper..." part includes traffic citations. I suppose it could be argued that it does, though I don't personally see it that way.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 2:06:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Plumbata:
Yes. Speed in any national park or wildlife area and find out.


Link Posted: 9/30/2011 2:09:29 PM EST
They have a whole docket day for those in the Newport News division of the EDVA. Mostly people speeding or DUI on the Colonial Parkway or Ft. Eustis.
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