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Posted: 9/8/2010 4:54:00 PM EDT
Given that Islamists comprise about 10-15% of the total 1.3 billion Muslims around the world (estimated), can we The United States with a male 15-65 population of about 102,000,000 win? Specifically, can we win using the current strategy of counter insurgency?

The US had 'Fit for military service' a combined male and female number of 118,600,000 (as of 2008). We have approximately 2,900,000 active and reserve military members. We have a total population of about 310,000,000 to draw from.

Our enemies have 100,000,000-150,000,000+ dedicated Islamists and a potential population of 1.3 billion to draw from (a large percentage of which are sympathizers).

Can we win? How?








Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:55:52 PM EDT
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:57:01 PM EDT
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.


this
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:58:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 4:59:50 PM EDT by ChrisLe]

Originally Posted By metalsaber:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology. Ssecond, you most definitely won't so long as political correctness prevails on the part of our elected officials. And third, you'll never win so long as our elected representatives continue to bury their heads in the sand and not even acknowledge the existence of Islamists...
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:00:14 PM EDT
Yes.

But in order for that to happen we have to decide that we are willing to do horrible things to protect our culture and way of life.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:02:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 5:03:17 PM EDT by WildApple]
Why did you limit the US to males between age 15-65, but not them?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:02:51 PM EDT
When Islam figures out how to turn off the TV's and Air conditioners people will get pissed.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:03:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WildApple:
Why did you limit the US to males between age 15-65, but not them?

They have a history of using kids as human shields?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:04:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:

Originally Posted By WildApple:
Why did you limit the US to males between age 15-65, but not them?

They have a history of using kids as human shields?


How many of them are armed vs. us?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:08:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 5:10:02 PM EDT by halloween78]
Gonna take a lot more pain at home than a few damaged buildings and a few thousand dead.

I guess a nuke might do it.

Might.



Or... blowing up American Idol.

In fact, if the jihadists are reading this: To really fuck with America, please blow up American Idol.

And those Kardashian and Jersey Shore fucks.

ETA: culture war, not military, if the latter and gloves come off, well... imagine a nation willing to disregard restraint, one that possesses a few thousand nuclear weapons...

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:08:50 PM EDT
I really don't know. If it came right down to it, a third of this country would take the Islamists side, to their own detriment. A lot of stupid in this country right now.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:10:07 PM EDT
Creedy: Die! Die! Why won't you die?... Why won't you die?
V: Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:11:54 PM EDT
What is there to defeat, a religion? Serious question.

The "Muslim's" that hate America, are about as Muslim as I am. It's blatantly obvious that the media within our country, and the morons in the ME are literally skewing the view of the world by showing that the all of the violence, destruction and "terrorism" committed is commited by groups of people that hate America, and the West in general. Yes, small sects of Islam hate 'Merica and other Western countries.

Where this ideology of "Dem Muslims all hate 'Merica, and dey dun want to kill our babies!" I will never know. It's lunacy. Just as "Muslims'' are killing, "Christians" have killed just as many more.

In other words. "Terrorist" aren't real Muslim's, and not all Muslim's condone what they do, and many do not even claim them to be a true Muslim.

Secondly, I do believe that Islam that is not tolerant of what these so-called terrorist do need to stand up, denounce it, and stress that it is not welcome, and not indicative of true Islam.

Third and finally, since ARFCOM rages with blind hate towards anything defending Islam, I'll say for one, I'm not defending, I'm attempting to make a point that perhaps a little research should be done before lumping all Muslims into groups. It's not any different than saying that because you're black, you're on welfare, and a criminal.

Flamesuit on.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:12:18 PM EDT
All the west lacks is will.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:14:10 PM EDT
no
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:15:24 PM EDT
Yup....

QFT
Originally Posted By Pred:
Creedy: Die! Die! Why won't you die?... Why won't you die?
V: Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof.


Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:16:49 PM EDT
We win by leaving them the fack alone. Now granted, they will likely be pissed about the death and destruction already inflicted (and that goes for both sides), but we gain nothing from dying in wars that will never end from fighting.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:18:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ChrisLe:

Originally Posted By metalsaber:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.


Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?


If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:19:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By metalsaber:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.


First post wins.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:21:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By metalsaber:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.


This.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:22:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Originally Posted By ChrisLe:

Originally Posted By metalsaber:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.


Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?


If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.

I'd like to purchase a ticket on your train of thought please...

funny this subject would come up. Watched The Unthinkable last night. And "H" was right, we have no will.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:23:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Originally Posted By ChrisLe:

Originally Posted By metalsaber:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.


Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?


If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.


Being Aztec was an ideology? Say what?
So because Buddhists don't hang out in one country you are capable of destroying them all?
Oh dear lord, comparing Nazism to Islamism boarders on retardation. For starters the Nazi party had a leader that could be killed, you can no more kill Muhammad as you could kill Christ. You seriously need to think before you post.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:25:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ChrisLe:

Originally Posted By metalsaber:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology. Ssecond, you most definitely won't so long as political correctness prevails on the part of our elected officials. And third, you'll never win so long as our elected representatives continue to bury their heads in the sand and not even acknowledge the existence of Islamists...


This
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:25:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Originally Posted By ChrisLe:

Originally Posted By metalsaber:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.


Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?


If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.


Well said
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:25:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 5:26:23 PM EDT by flyfishnepa]

yes, we could also team up with russia and china. throw in india as well just for good measure.





Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:27:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RustedAce:

If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.


Gosh knows many of us knew that was not the plan the first time we heard "Islam is a beautiful religion, a peaceful religion." and "..win hearts and minds."

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:28:07 PM EDT
Without reading any of the other replies...

No. We don't even have the heart it takes a society to really stand up to terrorism, our own out of control government, or even home-grown gang violence...
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:28:58 PM EDT
I think it could be won, or at least minimized. They are emboldned now, much like spoiled children, by most of the world enabling them by catering to their every emotional need. We have allowed ourselves to be manipulated by them.

If they didn't have the sympathizers/cowards, then would just make a lot of noise. Oh, they would try other things, but in a world of common sense instead of political correctness, they wouldn't get away with much.

They would be neutered.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:29:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ChrisLe:

Originally Posted By metalsaber:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology. Ssecond, you most definitely won't so long as political correctness prevails on the part of our elected officials. And third, you'll never win so long as our elected representatives continue to bury their heads in the sand and not even acknowledge the existence of Islamists...

Nuke Mecca. No Mecca.... No Islam.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:30:13 PM EDT
Win what?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:31:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pred:
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Originally Posted By ChrisLe:

Originally Posted By metalsaber:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology.


Bullshit.

How many Aztec sacrifices do you see going on?
How many budhists do you see in Afghanistan?
Or more recently, how effective are Nazis nowadays?


If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.


Being Aztec was an ideology? Say what?
So because Buddhists don't hang out in one country you are capable of destroying them all?
Oh dear lord, comparing Nazism to Islamism boarders on retardation. For starters the Nazi party had a leader that could be killed, you can no more kill Muhammad as you could kill Christ. You seriously need to think before you post.

Thanks. You saved me the effort of explaining it to him. Apples and oranges, Rusted Ace.. Apples and Oranges...
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:32:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:
Yes.

But in order for that to happen we have to decide that we are willing to do horrible things to protect our culture and way of life.


Reporting for duty.

I am willing to anything and everything preserve the way of life that I have enjoyed and my future wife and children deserve.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:32:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FeebMaster:
Win what?


+1

define "win."


Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:37:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Federalist1989:
All the west lacks is will.


which one is will? And let's smack the shit out of him.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:37:45 PM EDT
Aaarrggghhh! - "this" - as in "no we can't".



Are you kidding me?

It's not a question of "can or cannot" because absolutely we can. The question is do we have the will to do so, not only in respect to defeating the most egregious of islamic fanaticism, but also in effectively dealing with the traitors and losers within our own midsts who will obtusely or subconciously side with the enemy in order to avoid the dirty work of managing such a conflict.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:40:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 5:41:50 PM EDT by RockSix]
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
Originally Posted By RustedAce:

If you feel like putting some effort into it, you can completely destroy ideas.


Gosh knows many of us knew that was not the plan the first time we heard "Islam is a beautiful religion, a peaceful religion." and "..win hearts and minds."



We woulld have to cut out or blow out their hearts and minds........now days might have to sub contract this out to the NORKS, (double win?)maybe it would keep them in check with the additional money.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:41:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ChrisLe:

Originally Posted By metalsaber:
No we can't win and it has nothing to do with military capabilities.

This.... First, you cannot defeat an ideology. Ssecond, you most definitely won't so long as political correctness prevails on the part of our elected officials. And third, you'll never win so long as our elected representatives continue to bury their heads in the sand and not even acknowledge the existence of Islamists...


pretty much, the only way to fight idealism is a salted earth mind set..Americans dont have the stomach for it any more, if ever...

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:43:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 6:02:43 PM EDT by LARRYG]
Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
I really don't know. If it came right down to it, a third of this country would take the Islamists side, to their own detriment. A lot of stupid in this country right now.


But I think the third that would side with them are not nearly as well armed as the other two thirds, per capita.

And I agree with "much to their detriment". The morons who would side with them would mostly be the very ones whom the jihadists despise the most.

What slays me is all the liberal women who scream about equal rights being among those who support the jihadists the most. Talk about ironic.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:48:13 PM EDT
Political Correctness will be our downfall. Just ask the UK and a few other European countries.











Also, as I have reccomended before, read Londonistan by Melanie Philips.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:51:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:
Yes.

But in order for that to happen we have to decide that we are willing to do horrible things to protect our culture and way of life.


Yep.Nailed it.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:54:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:
Yes.

But in order for that to happen we have to decide that we are willing to do horrible things to protect our culture and way of life.


This and I agree with it 1000000000000000%
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:54:50 PM EDT
dunno but this will be locked before you find out.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:56:35 PM EDT
Not a chance in hell. We're the best recruiter they have. We have idiots in this country that actually want to go to war with the entire Muslim population of the world, not just the tiny fraction that already want us dead.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:57:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:
Yes.

But in order for that to happen we have to decide that we are willing to do horrible things to protect our culture and way of life.


If your asking Can we win..... sounds like you have given up and are ready to die a grouse horrible death, which is what they ( the Extremist) will give you.

Bloencustoms is exactly correct, this is why we are on their land killing them there and allowing the stray bullets and Suicide bombs to thin their Gene Pool.

As for me Let them try to win, I will Die making sure their dead are barried in pigs guts and blood after being shot with bacon greased bullets.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:57:12 PM EDT
Cut their cocks off
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:59:13 PM EDT
No. Our Commander-in-Chief cannot even bring himself to use the word "terrorist" (unless he is describing a Republican). How can you defeat an enemy if you refuse to acknowledge their existence?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:00:25 PM EDT
Islamism?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:00:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By smokycity:
Political Correctness will be our downfall. Just ask the UK and a few other European countries.



Also, as I have reccomended before, read Londonistan by Melanie Philips.
We have one thing going for us: we can see and learn from what is happening in Europe. It will be our only saving grace provided people open their eyes and actually pay attention to the Islamization of Europe..

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:03:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By retgarr:
Islamism?

a fundamentalist Islamic revivalist movement generally characterized by moral conservatism and the literal interpretation of the Koran and the attempt to implement Islamic values in all aspects of life...In other words, Islamofascists, Islamic fundamentalists, etc....
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:03:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 6:05:46 PM EDT by Rable44]
Originally Posted By retgarr:
Islamism?


Yeah ,you never heard Mike Tyson call it that when he converted? I think it was more like Ithlaithm though. Im not kidding either.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:05:14 PM EDT
We'll see what happens when the suicide bombers show up. It's only a matter of time unfourtantly.
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