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Posted: 9/15/2004 5:54:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 5:55:59 AM EST by ZEN]
There seems to be a new breed of "new conservative" these days. People like Arnold Swartzenegger who are lauded by the media as "conservatives" and yet they are against the right to bear arms.

Seems to me that the right to bear arms is at the core of freedom. The right to bear arms means the right to revolution and to take back an unjust govt.

To me, it seems, if someone doesn't believe in the right to bear arms, then they don't really believe in the right to self determination. Which is at the heart of being conservative. (isn't it?)

Seems to me the right to keep and bear arms is the foundation of freedom and conservatism.

So what are these "new conservatives"?

Are they democrats in conservatives clothing? Traitors? Fools? Media darlings? Or just opportunists?



Zen

"This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"


Link Posted: 9/15/2004 5:56:24 AM EST
Well, I don't know what to call it... but Ahnold came out saying he is fiscally conservative, but socially liberal...

I think it IS possible to have conservative views about some things, but liberal views on others.


Maybe we should just call it CONFUSED?
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 5:57:07 AM EST
Its a trend that I have noticed too..


Guliani, O'Reilly and most of FOX news, Bush stating that he would have signed the AWB if it had crossed his desk.... just to name a few...

Link Posted: 9/15/2004 5:59:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 6:03:32 AM EST by warlord]
My litmus test of being conservative is the gun issue, because the politicos & news media don't like to talk about it. The liberals detest firearms ownership because it stands in the way of the liberals socialist/communist agenda. How can you impose your will on people when they have the means to resist you? The Dem/liberals want to impose their will on me, even if it kills me.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 6:00:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 6:01:43 AM EST
Ummmm.......NO. Once one right is gone, others will follow.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 6:02:29 AM EST


Conservative and liberal are outdated terms. Labeling politicos is a difficult proposition these days. Most Americans would have called Zell Miller a Liberal because he is a Democrat before the RNC.

By and large, I think there is a large moderate majority with folks picking a few hotbutton issues to hang their hats on.

The trend that seems to be occuring is the "compassionate conservative" thing, which is a move to the center and left of center, as well as the radicalizing of the true leftists.

As the "Conservative Republicans" gain ground in the middle - they drive the true believers of the liberals farther and farther left. So the liberals get loonier and the conservatives get diluted.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 6:03:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
No Conservative is not an absolutist regarding the RKBA. Period.




+1

RKBA is a non-negotiable for a conservative.

TRUE conservatives understand the diabolical tendencies of gov't, and would ALWAYS ensure the citizens right to "alter or abolish it."

Link Posted: 9/15/2004 6:05:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 6:06:46 AM EST by ZEN]

Originally Posted By warlord:
My litmus test of being conservative is the gun issue, because the politicos & news media don't like to talk about it. The liberals detest firearms ownership because it stands in the way of the liberals socialist/communist agenda. How can you impose your will on people when they have the means to resist you?




Well said Warlord!

Gun ownership is the last stumbling block to tyrants. I think that is why liberals and commies hate to see them in the hands of the people. The want centralized power to be complete so the can force their nutty ideas on us.

Zen

"This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 6:11:03 AM EST
If you can have pro-gun liberals, you can have anti-gun conservatives.

If there's one thing I've learned in this world, it's that for any whackjob issue there could possibly be, there is someone that believes fervently in it, and probably has a website devoted to their view on it.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 6:14:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 6:20:23 AM EST by 95thFoot]

Originally Posted By ZEN:
There seems to be a new breed of "new conservative" these days. People like Arnold Swartzenegger who are lauded by the media as "conservatives" and yet they are against the right to bear arms.

Seems to me that the right to bear arms is at the core of freedom. The right to bear arms means the right to revolution and to take back an unjust govt.

To me, it seems, if someone doesn't believe in the right to bear arms, then they don't really believe in the right to self determination. Which is at the heart of being conservative. (isn't it?)

Seems to me the right to keep and bear arms is the foundation of freedom and conservatism.

So what are these "new conservatives"?

Are they democrats in conservatives clothing? Traitors? Fools? Media darlings? Or just opportunists?



Zen

"This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"





First, it is "the right to keep and bear arms", not just "the right to bear arms". The latter implies the govt. has the power to store and retain the arms when we are not using them. That would deny us the means. Denial of the means is denial of the right, as Dr. King said.

Second, when it comes to guns, Arnie is a girlie man. 'Nuff said.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 6:16:50 AM EST
Sure. You'll find most anti-gun conservatives are that way because they grew up and live in cities, where only criminals and cops own guns.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 6:21:09 AM EST
The Second Amendment makes all the others possible for without it there is no guarantee for the people.

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 6:52:15 AM EST
There was an article/essay floating around few years back pointed out there was a time when "Liberals" and "Democrats" were the ones wary of government, and thus more apt to see 2A issues the same way we do. As for Ah-nuld... I too am "fiscal conservative, social liberal"... I think the "social liberal" is why I strongly believe in all the bill of rights. I favor freedom to do pretty much what you want as long as you do not violate anothers rights... things like: gun-ownership, worship (or choice not to), womens right to choose, harm yourself with chemicals, etc. Morals on the other hand are between you and your friends/relatives/neighbors/creator. For example, I may not agree with making abortion illegal, but I would strongly urge women I know to consider all other possibilities. I also consider myself a "Pragmatic Libertarian". I'll be voting for Bush because, well, I "elected" clinton by voting for Perot. But in local stuff, I tend to roll the dice more on Libertarians, especially when the remaining choices do not differ on my "litmus issues". Just my POV.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 7:11:15 AM EST
conservative = less government

gun control = more government
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 10:36:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By BenDover:
conservative = less government

gun control = more government




Bush= Biggest domestic budget in American history, Bigger than the klintonistas. With the addition of perscription drug benefits its going to continue to grow and grow...
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:13:35 PM EST
Sure, until I took him shooting, then he had more fun than I had.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:48:30 PM EST
So I guess now I'm a conservative because I believe in the 2nd Amendment?

Personally I choose to make up my own mind. It tends to make people uncomfortable as most (including a large portion of the arfcom family) can't survive 15 minutes without subscribing to some sort of dogma or having a pigeonhole they feel comfortable in and can loudly proclaim to the rest of the world "I'M AN XYZ".

Try telling someone you're a registered republican, pro-choice, pro-legalization, anti-union, anti-helmet law, pro-pitbull, anti-welfare, pro-personal responsibility, pro-education, tattooed, harley riding, gun owning, agnostic, anarchist with a master's degree and see how worried they get that you don't fit any of their stereotypes.
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