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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 8/27/2004 2:59:48 PM EST
Why are some people so driven to be better than someone else at one mundane task (like shooting, or running, or jumping, etc.)? Is there some sort of gratification that people get from being able to say "yay! I am better than you at a completely useless endeavor!"

I have played sports both team and individual, I shoot competitively, and I have often done quite well at all of them (although the shooting of late has suffered...). I've won pool tournaments, and I've been on championship soccer teams. The pool tournaments I was generally in for the money, the soccer thing just sort of happened with the right group of guys that played well together.

I think that the competitions that matter in life are living well and being happy.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:03:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 3:09:39 PM EST by DzlBenz]
I replied first! What do I win?

Seriously, I too, find this to be a curious phenomenon. I have certain pursuits that I enjoy, and I try to do my best, for my own personal satisfaction. Several of my ex-hobbies got that way because Igrew tired of the overwhelming element of absolute competition at every aspect. Case in point: Autocross. At the time, I had an '87 GTI 16V. OK car, but not really suited to autocross, at lease in "Stock" class. But I did get a kick out of flogging the thing every weekend in some parking lot. I was in the same class as the Honda CRX, a car that weighed about 1,000 lb less, and was only giving up maybe 25 HP or so to the VW. I had no chance to beat them, os I concentrated on improving my own performance. It didn't last long, as I was soon characterized as merely an also-ran, since I didn't have the "killer instinct" to slay my competition. I tried for a while to "keep up" with the go-fast crowd, but quickly spent myself into a deep hole that ultimately cost me a marriage and more.

Some people seem to be stuck on the notion that the only way that they can better themselves is to somehow be better than someone else.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:03:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 3:04:10 PM EST by skid2964]
because they have a small penis(or wish they had one) and they are very unhappy about it ....
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:04:26 PM EST
I really can't, Norman.. I take pride in a job well done, but I've never been driven to compete or need that kind of social validation. I guess it's part of the nature vs. nurture thing.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:07:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Why are some people so driven to be better than someone else at one mundane task (like shooting, or running, or jumping, etc.)? Is there some sort of gratification that people get from being able to say "yay! I am better than you at a completely useless endeavor!"

I have played sports both team and individual, I shoot competitively, and I have often done quite well at all of them (although the shooting of late has suffered...). I've won pool tournaments, and I've been on championship soccer teams. The pool tournaments I was generally in for the money, the soccer thing just sort of happened with the right group of guys that played well together.

I think that the competitions that matter in life are living well and being happy.



With all do respect, only a pu$$y wants to loose...



Kidding.

I dunno. Some people are competitive to a fault. I am extremely competitive in some things, (shooting being one of them) and couldn't care less about others. But even the things I am competitive in I am not as bad as I was in my younger days. I guess I am mellowing with time....
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:08:24 PM EST
Competitions are usually needed to set standards. It also helps to improve productivity in the work place so long as the "winner" is compensated. As far as mundane tasks go, it's an ego thing I suppose.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:08:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By MMcCall:
I really can't, Norman.. I take pride in a job well done, but I've never been driven to compete or need that kind of social validation. I guess it's part of the nature vs. nurture thing.



[Sean Connery] ...Loosers always whine about their best. Winners go home and f**k the prom queen [/Sean Connery]

Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:14:33 PM EST
you call shooting a useless endeavor?

I happen to like winning. I feel good when I win in competitions. I shoot USPSA and take a great amount of personal pride in how well I do. It has very little to do with being better then another person in specific and more to do with being the best at what it is you put your time into. If you aren't going to do somthing to the best of your abilities, then why do it? Competition is how people compare skills and figure out what the basline for succeeding at a particular task is, and that baseline is set by people who are very good at what they do.

I feel good when I win. When I don't, I take the opportunity to see how I can improve. Its about doing somthing the best you can, and finding out how you compare to others. About the only thing that people don't compete in is masturbation because thats really a single person sport. Everything else is up for competition.

If you don't understand, you probably won't. This is not an insult. Its simply the truth. The saying of "For those who don't, no explination is possible, and for those who do, no explination is necessary." Competition is abase part of the human condition. Its an extension of the instinctual need to be stronger then your neighbors so your neighbors don't come kill you. Instead of being back in the caveman days when this was a very real possibility, and needing to be better at everything mean your very survival, we now channel those instincts that we still possess into different area's of competition to feed the urge to excell at activities over our fellow human being.

Its part of life dude. Its just the kinder and gentler continuation of "only the strong survive".

Chris
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:16:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By MMcCall:
I really can't, Norman.. I take pride in a job well done, but I've never been driven to compete or need that kind of social validation. I guess it's part of the nature vs. nurture thing.



[Sean Connery] ...Loosers always whine about their best. Winners go home and f**k the prom queen [/Sean Connery]




Dammit.. now I gotta fire up The Rock

Seriously though, I don't really get the "gun games".. I don't want to get in a life or death situation and resort to some bad habit I picked up while trying to get a better score or split time.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:25:32 PM EST
Beats the shit out of me. Mediocre people are doing the best they can.

My wife's two adult sons are so competitive that they have a hard time getting along with each other. Both are involved in baseball, bowling, darts, and just about any other thing they can join. They are obsessed with winning, to the point it somtimes upsets their life. Wears my ass out just to be around them.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:30:48 PM EST
I've been a Face-Off Middie for years now and you don't get that ball if you're not competitive.
I'm driven to win at whatever I put my mind to. It's what separates the type A's from the B's.
The way I see it everyone is different.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:33:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Why are some people so driven to be better than someone else at one mundane task (like shooting, or running, or jumping, etc.)? Is there some sort of gratification that people get from being able to say "yay! I am better than you at a completely useless endeavor!"



For me, it's not being able to say that I'm better than someone else because there is always going to be a younger faster hotter gun going to ride into town on the next train. I do it so that it forces me to improve my own technique, tactics, fitness, and performance. Generally, I compete against ME, MYSELF, and MURPHY. I watch the top competitors to get tips on how to improve my own game. It is positive reinforcement to see your rankings go upward after practicing and hard work.

Now there are people that have to be the top dawg regardless. You've probably seen these braggart 35 year old 325lb camo'd Ranger SEALS at the gun shows that spent two tours in 'Nam and Christmas in Cambodia. It comes from a deep sense of insecurity. True competitors strive to improve their own game and push the limits of what they can do. They don't brag about what they've won.

wganz

Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:34:00 PM EST
ITS LOSER!!! NOT LOOSER!!!
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:36:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By GrumpyM4:
Its just the kinder and gentler continuation of "only the strong survive".

Chris



But it's not. It's like a pathetic substitute for it. Don't get me wrong, I can look at the IDPA scores and get a smile on my face because I came in second in my class at the state match, but that's about it. I don't show up to the match with this all-consuming drive to win win win.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:40:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:
ITS LOSER!!! NOT LOOSER!!!



Your only a Loser if it's not Looser when your done with it
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:40:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By MMcCall:

Seriously though, I don't really get the "gun games".. I don't want to get in a life or death situation and resort to some bad habit I picked up while trying to get a better score or split time.



I would rather fight someone that has never shot IDPA than someone who does.

Let me ask you this. Would you rather fight a boxer, or an ultimate fighting champ? boxer right? But does that mean you'd choose fighting the boxer over a guy who hits the heavy bag every day? Hell no.

Shooting in competitions is 1000% better than nothing for personal defense training. Yes, classes once a month at Gunsite or Thunder ranch are 1000% better than IDPA, but IDPA is still far and away better than standing still at the indoor range slinging lead at a bullseye.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:46:35 PM EST
Don't get all competitive on us now
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:53:44 PM EST
I guess at the core of this, I'm amazed by people that can do things that they don't enjoy, simply because they want to win.

I've heard the term "it was alot of hard work training for this, but it was all worth it because I won". That concept is so alien to me. I workout because I enjoy the high. I shoot at the range in-between IDPA matches because I enjoy shooting. I just get this image of people at the range, repeatedly running through drill after drill, just so they can say on IDPA day that "I shaved 2 seconds off my time and came in 3rd instead of 5th". Bizarre.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:58:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
I would rather fight someone that has never shot IDPA than someone who does.

Let me ask you this. Would you rather fight a boxer, or an ultimate fighting champ? boxer right? But does that mean you'd choose fighting the boxer over a guy who hits the heavy bag every day? Hell no.



I understand your point, but I also know myself, and I know how quickly behavioral patterns take hold. I don't want to be getting shot at, and be waiting for the buzzer to go off so I can draw
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:05:53 PM EST
it's evolutionary. only the strong, the best survive. stakes just aren't as high these days in most situations.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:34:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 4:35:33 PM EST by garandman]
For me, I am my best competition.

I draw personal satisfaction from doing MY best. If that exceeds what others can do, that;s cool too.


I do like to measure myself. You can best do that against others of similar ablitiy. aka competition

Only a dork enjoys losing.


Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:34:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:
it's evolutionary. only the strong, the best survive. stakes just aren't as high these days in most situations.



Look around you at modern medicine and welfare, and tell me you honestly believe that.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:48:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 4:50:56 PM EST by SHIVAN]
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:53:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Why are some people so driven to be better than someone else at one mundane task (like shooting, or running, or jumping, etc.)? Is there some sort of gratification that people get from being able to say "yay! I am better than you at a completely useless endeavor!"

I have played sports both team and individual, I shoot competitively, and I have often done quite well at all of them (although the shooting of late has suffered...). I've won pool tournaments, and I've been on championship soccer teams. The pool tournaments I was generally in for the money, the soccer thing just sort of happened with the right group of guys that played well together.

I think that the competitions that matter in life are living well and being happy.



But I've got these new shoes. They make me run fast and jump high. I can jump higher than you, I bet.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:04:31 PM EST
Losers go home.

Winners get to fuck the prom queen.


Any other questions??


Seriously, I grew up amongst a bunch of really athletic people and it blossomed into a great competitiveness.

There was a thread earlier about "best compliment you've received". I left one off because it applied to athletics rather than normal life.

When I played indoor soccer years ago I had a nickname that was given me by a guy on an opposing team. He said I was ruthless, relentless and did whatever it took to get the job done. He called me "Terminator".

This while my team and his-who we'd just beat in a game-were drinking beer in the bar of the soccer club.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:15:26 PM EST
Because 2nd place is the 1st loser. J/K

I'd say I'm a little competitive. Competition keeps things interesting and fun. Too much competition can be like stress, a little is good and can bring out the best in you and a little too much can be really bad. As long as your having fun I don't see competition as bad.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:23:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By MMcCall:

Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:
it's evolutionary. only the strong, the best survive. stakes just aren't as high these days in most situations.



Look around you at modern medicine and welfare, and tell me you honestly believe that.



yes, i believe that's how we were intended to be. civilization (modern medicine, welfare, rules, etc.) changed everything. now little passive weaklings get to survive.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:27:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:
ITS LOSER!!! NOT LOOSER!!!



I KNO, BUTT IT IS SO MUCH FUN TO PISS OFFF THE SPEELING NASIZ
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:30:39 PM EST
Way to long/late to read all the posts, so if this has been posted disregard.

First of all shooting is not useless. Have you ever heard of a dueling post? Me and my brother built one, and now we play all the time. Why?, because it trains us to quikly and accurately shoot. This can be used for hunt, the armed forces/leo and if the SHTF. Useless? no, pointless? no.

But thats just my opinion.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:08:39 PM EST
When I was young I pitched side arm a natural cure,I either blew it by you or knocked you down!

We were young kids (nine years old) and could only pitch three innings,I would frequently pitch nine up and nine down!!

After pitching they would try and make me the catcher(because of my size)but when a foul tip buzzed by my hand and mitt I would duck and the ump would get the blast!!

They put me in the outfield thats where I belonged(after pitching three innings)! But I carried a big stick about 400 or so,I either struck out or blasted it out of the park!!

Now this carried over into Pop warnner football,I red shirted for the first half of the season then first string then on!

We were the 1957,58,59,and 1960 Mighty Might Champions! The Little Reds(of Bethany)!

We played the World Champions at Stillwater and tied them(they had never been beaten or tied)!

We played just before OU and OSU had there game! Bud Wilkinson was nice but Gomer Jones was mad as hell because we had tore up the turf,and prentess Gaut had slipped on the turf!!


I still have both ends of the ticket(cause my dads drove the bus and took the tickets for the game)

OU verses OSU 1957!

Competitive yes then and now!


If you are not competitive then you had best not compete!!


Bob
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:55:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 6:57:21 PM EST by Noname]

"Let's run down there and fuck a couple of those cows!"



"Why don't we walk down there and fuck them all...!"
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 7:03:23 PM EST
Its natural to want to win. In evolutionary terms, it meant the difference between your genes makiing it to the next generation or not. Thats why we feel good when we win. People who don't like competition are either insecure because deep down they think they will lose, or they are evolutionary failures that have survived only because society props them up artificially.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 8:43:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
Its natural to want to win. In evolutionary terms, it meant the difference between your genes makiing it to the next generation or not. Thats why we feel good when we win. People who don't like competition are either insecure because deep down they think they will lose, or they are evolutionary failures that have survived only because society props them up artificially.



Or because they have evolved enough to see through all the bullshit.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 8:57:17 PM EST
"You are here because you are real men and all real men like to fight. When you, here, everyone of you, were kids, you all admired the champion marble player, the fastest runner, the toughest boxer, the big league ball players, and the All-American football players. Americans love a winner. Americans will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win all of the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American." General George Patton

America didn't become what it is because we are gracious losers. I will never cheat & I will compete honorably but I ALWAYS play to win, second place is worth nothing.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 9:22:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sumo2000:
"You are here because you are real men and all real men like to fight. When you, here, everyone of you, were kids, you all admired the champion marble player, the fastest runner, the toughest boxer, the big league ball players, and the All-American football players. Americans love a winner. Americans will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win all of the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American." General George Patton

America didn't become what it is because we are gracious losers. I will never cheat & I will compete honorably but I ALWAYS play to win, second place is worth nothing.



True, but for me it has to be something important to make me want to "compete" at all. I've never liked ball sports, gambling, etc. If I go hunting and my buddy says "I bet I get the first squirrel", I just ask him if he wants me to wait until he does before I shoot one. I've done it too, just kicked back against a tree until I hear a shot or two, then I start hunting. I just don't care, or find it important to win just for the sake of winning.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 9:23:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
I have played sports both team and individual, I shoot competitively, and I have often done quite well at all of them (although the shooting of late has suffered...). I've won pool tournaments, and I've been on championship soccer teams. The pool tournaments I was generally in for the money, the soccer thing just sort of happened with the right group of guys that played well together.



Look to your own post for the answer. Some people compete and strive to be best for the monetary reward( you pool playing ). Some people compete and strive to be best on an indivdiual basis because of the sense of self satisfaction they get from doing something well ( your shooting ). Some people compete as part of a team because they were able to be a part of the whole units success ( your soccer ).

If you find competition unimportant and of little or no benefit, then why did YOU compete.

I used to race sports cars long ago. Even won a few times. During the event, the feeling of competing was great, a real rush. Winning was another whole plateau. It's not just beating everyone else. It's knowing that on that day, at that moment in time, MY BEST was better than everyone elses best. It's really something to savor.

Granted, some people take it to extremes. But they just want to fuck the prom queen
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 9:25:41 PM EST
Competition is the only true measure of how "good" we are at something. What does it mean if I have an IQ of 1XX? It means that N% of the population scored lower than me on an IQ test. The same goes for sports statsistics, etc.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 9:31:37 PM EST
summo you are right to a fault,and that fault is that we enbrace tryers,not everone can be a champion! We played a team whom the opossing right tackle had huge boils on his neck and face!

He played so hard it often took off side trap blocks just to shut him down! When the game was over I said to his face I'm glad your team had only one like you or we would have lost!!

He was there to play,I broke a kids leg on a cross block(illegal now) but the rest of the team just glared thier hatred to me! My old buddy Brad Avant just said good hit!

Sandy Harris went on to be Wrestling coach at Putnam City West,Brad Avants went on to be Football coach at Central State Broncos!

We were champions and we never felt that anyone else was trying less just not as hard!


The fellow that I broke his leg just gave up,cause when two people hit as hard as they can,they just bounce off each other!

If you ever slack off then you are meat!!

To compete is natural if not then why would one try?

Jimmie Hendrix was god ,till Stevie Ray ,and now it's just Eric Clapton!!!!


It's all about competition!!!


Bob
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 10:08:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By bobbyjack:
Jimmie Hendrix was god ,till Stevie Ray ,and now it's just Eric Clapton!!!!
Bob



Hey now, I love SRV & Clapton (I have a portrait of SRV over my bed) but Hendrix is beyond compare.


You are right about tryers though, I'm not as hardcore about winning as Patton was. I'm a fan of the underdog, if someone loses but gives it their all then I'm impressed with them. The important thing is that they give everything they have & thats being competitive.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 10:27:17 PM EST
The coolest thing Jimmy Ever did (in my thoughts)was in the Woodstock clean up song!!!


I think Eric Clapton and Jimmie Page were there watching it and thought oh my god what will I do now!!

Jimmie beat that Guitar like it owed him money!!!

He played it like it was a symphony written song that only he heard the score to!!!


You are right Jimmie Was the king!!!


Bob
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 10:37:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By bobbyjack:
You are right Jimmie Was the king!!!
Bob



Spell it right, it's Jimi, not Jimmie (I mainly say that cause I was named after him, people always spell my name wrong)
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 10:42:06 PM EST
And if a six turned out to be nine I don't mind

I got my whole world to live in

And you ain't gonna change mine!

Bob
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:17:34 AM EST
Darwin
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:19:50 AM EST
OK, OK... I'll admit it - I've got a wall full of shooting trophies and I'm hung like a light switch. There I've said it.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 9:05:07 AM EST
OK, OK... I'll admit it - I've got a wall full of shooting trophies and I'm hung like a light switch. There I've said it.


I can see from your Avatar that you are an agressive predator, a competator. It's Darwin. I send you among the Sheeple to feed you won't go hungey .We all compete, remember the SAS motto" Those Who Dare Win." Wimps with guns lose their guns and more.
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