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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 8/8/2002 7:09:45 PM EST
I've been just curious about the laws that put full auto guns into (pretty much) illegal territory.. What year did this happen? I've read some things on the net that say its been in effect since the 20's then i read something about "machine guns" being sold prior to 1986.... When were full auto weapons banned from normal civilian purchase? Was there an incident or reason for the ban? I dont want to get into debates about why its banned.. Just when it was, what the reasoning was and also I've read that class 3 dealers can own them for a pretty hefty price.. but i read somewhere else (fullauto.com or something like that) that people can own them and you just need a class 3 dealer to transfer it for you?! I also am under the impression that each state has different laws? But isn't it a federal law that you cant own them if your not a class 3 dealer? Does anyone else think its kind of a stupid law, or is it just me becuase i'm young and would like to have a full auto? :) Is there any chance of a myrical happening and it getting repealed? Thanks guys, I'm not considering even buying one or anything, but would just like to educate myself a little better on the topic and i cant seem to find any websites dedicated to it.. (tho tuns dedicated to the assault weapons ban)...
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 7:12:09 PM EST
If we can't the ATF will.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 7:58:01 PM EST
NFA act of 1934 placed tax on certain items; Suppressors, Full Auto, Short Barreled rifles and shotguns, destructive devices and "Any Other Weapons". AOW is what covers a mish mash of other items regulated by NFA but not clearly one of the other descriptions. A registry was implemented to "facilitate collection of the tax". (It is well known that currently the registry contains huge number of errors.) To legally posess, a copy of the form ("form 4")proving payment of the tax is required. Even for cops and their departments. Dealers form is differnt as they pay tax via SOT. Any MACHINEGUN legally possesed prior to MAy 1986 may continue to be sold and transferred. Those made or imported after that date (Post may weapons) may only be possesed and transferred between dealers holding "Special Occupational Tax" stamps and / or government entities. Anyone who passes an FBI background check (same criteria as a 4473 NICS check), provides picture and a CLEO sign off (not required if a corporation) and pays the appropriate tax may posess NFA items IF in compliance with state laws. Those state laws vary widely. This is a VERY rough summary of the regulations but is far from all of it!
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 8:18:06 PM EST
There is no law, you can just buy any old semi aut, amke it fully, and terrorize the local wildlife with it, have a blast, after all, it is guaranteed by the second amendment right? (you probably shouldn't listen to me, I is drunk [;)]) [heavy]
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 8:23:37 PM EST
So mickey if i'm hearing you right, IF my state allowed persons to own full autos (which my state doesnt) then IF i found someone who owned a full auto weapon prior to the 1986 of may thing, then i could LEGALLY buy it from him? if he was not a dealer, would i still need to fill out the form 4 and pay the tax? or is that only for the after 1986 weapons.. and did i just confused?
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 9:05:20 PM EST
First thing you need to check is whether machineguns are legal in your State If they are legal then there is nothing (outside of the CLEO refusing to sign) from keeping you from purchasing a Machinegun. Relevant laws: Pre 1934: Every and anything was legal NFA (Nation Firearms Act) 1934: Created a registry and excised a $200 making tax and a $200 dollar transfer tax on the making of any SBR, SBS, MG, or Suppressor. AOW, have a $200 dollar making tax but only a $5 dollar transfer tax. GCA (Gun Control Act) 1968: Bans the importation of non-sporting (i.e machine-guns) from abroad. All imported machineguns after 68 are now referred to as Pre-May Dealer Samples. These guns may only be possesed by Class 3 dealers but may be kept by the dealer after allowing his SOT FFL to lapse. FOPA (firearm Owners Protection Act) 1986: Bans the making of MGs by civilians and bans the transfer of new MG's to civilians. This creates a new class of MG's (Post 86 Dealer Samples) These may only be possesed by Class 3 dealers and may NOT be kept after their SOT FFL lapses. This law also creates a new class of machineguns (Pre-May Fully Transferable) of which any domestically made machinegun made before May of 1986 may be purchased or possesed by a civilian. You may as a civilian purchase any PreMay transferrable machingun if the following conditions are met. 1. Your state allows machinguns. 2. You are able to obtain a CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officers) signature for your ATF FORM 4. Most officials from major cities will not sign. 3. If the gun is already in your state owned by either a dealer or civilian the gun may be transferred directly to you via a ATF Form 4 $200 Dollar Tax. If the gun you wish to purchase is out of state. You will have to have it transferred to a dealer in your State. If the gun is already owned by a dealer it can be transferred tax free via a ATF Form 3. It it is owned by an individual it will have to be transferred on a ATF Form 4 $200 tax and then will be transferred from your dealer to you on another FORM 4 $200 tax for a total of $400 dollar tax. However this senario will also get you out of sales tax, so depending on what you buy $400 might be cheap in comparison. 4. You can pass an FBI background check. 5. You have the cash. Since transferable machinguns are like real estate and they are not making any more of them expect to pay up big time. Entry level gun is a MAC running at 1200 to 1500 bucks Middle ground, M16 $6000 to $10,000 dollars High End, M60, $16,000 to $20,000 dollars. Exotic, Mini-gun $250,000+ To get started at the very minimum in Class 3 nowadays will require at least a $1500 and probably closer to a 2000 dollar investment for a MAC + ATF Tax + Sales TAX + a stack Mags and ammo.
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 11:29:54 PM EST
Dont forget nice mp5 10,000 to 14,000 :) Anyways I dont have money for it all, i was mainly concerned on the TOTAL legalities and all that stuff so if i ever got into a conversation with someone about it, i'll know what i'm talking about! so basically if its made here (america) before 1986 you can legally own it and all that habwash without having a Class 4 license. if it was made somewhere else then shipped into the usa, it has to have been before 1968 for a CIV to own it, a dealer 3 can own it if its imported after 68'... and anything other than that a civ cant own .. Good info thanks guys!
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 8:29:52 PM EST
Ahhh that's Form 4 not Cla................ Forget it your in the wrong state. Move to Idaho [:D]
Link Posted: 8/9/2002 9:41:56 PM EST
Do a search for "National Firearms Act" and you will find out most of what you need to know. I would check at packing.org, nra.org, and actually look around some at atf.treas.gov for info. You will actually find that most of the NFA is hidden in Title 26USC - the Internal Revenue Code. The NFA was originally passed as a "revenue" measure, which is why it's called a "Transfer Tax." Never mind that the "tax" is $200, and was levied against Sten guns (cost to manufacture: $35) and suppressors (cost to manufacture: $20.) The NFA also covers what are called "AOW" for "Any Other Weapon" - including "camouflaged" guns (gun/knives, pen guns, Zippo guns) and short-barreled ("sawed off") rifles and shotguns. It is further interesting to note that while most people know of minimum BARREL lengths, they do not know that there is also a minimum OVERALL length for compliance (18/28" for shotguns, 16/26" for rifles.) It is the OAL requirement that the ATF used against Randy Weaver - all that over 3/8" of WOOD. FFZ
Link Posted: 8/10/2002 2:52:59 PM EST
EV, you live in Washington State. Machine Guns are illegal here as are every other type of NFA firearm except AOW's. You can buy and own a silencer, you can not use it in the state.
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