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Posted: 9/28/2004 1:20:44 PM EST
I bought the 3 pack a few days ago and got into a discussion with the wife about the stormtroopers. Question is, are the ST's clones? Are they the same guys from that last movie? Also, how many years have gone by between the last movie and the 1st star wars (episode II and episode IV to you nerds)? I would imaginr that the ST have aged a lot if they are, in fact the clones from the last movie.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:28:47 PM EST
They are clones, George Lucas confirmed this in the commentary on Episode II.

About twenty five years went by between ep II and ep IV
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:30:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 1:30:57 PM EST by TheRedGoat]
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:38:38 PM EST
we should get a star wars forum.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:40:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
we should get a star wars forum.





IT'S A TRAP!!!
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:42:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
we should get a star wars forum.



www.apt401.com/ackbar.jpg

IT'S A TRAP!!!




and judging by the two of yours posts... Gabasaurus Rex is Han Solo and YOU'RE Chewbacca!!
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:09:02 PM EST
Thanks for the answers. Now, if the storm troopers are the same clones from #2, wouldnt they be pretty darn old? Considering that the clones grew really fast? Also, if the ST are clones, why arent the other guys (whose faces can be seen) clones too? It seems to me that Lucas had no idea about episodes 1-3 back when he made the first one. I think he pulled a lot of that stuff out of his ass.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:16:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By kingfish:
It seems to me that Lucas had no idea about episodes 1-3 back when he made the first one. I think he pulled a lot of that stuff out of his ass.

he didn't, and he did.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:19:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By kingfish:
Thanks for the answers. Now, if the storm troopers are the same clones from #2, wouldnt they be pretty darn old? Considering that the clones grew really fast? Also, if the ST are clones, why arent the other guys (whose faces can be seen) clones too? It seems to me that Lucas had no idea about episodes 1-3 back when he made the first one. I think he pulled a lot of that stuff out of his ass.



They kept on making new clones.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:19:06 PM EST
Seems like Lucas causes more trouble for himself trying to tie everything together.

Funny thing about storm troopers being clones is they all don't sound the same and if you look, easiest in ROTJ, they are not all the same heighth
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:27:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By kingfish:
I bought the 3 pack a few days ago and got into a discussion with the wife about the stormtroopers. Question is, are the ST's clones? Are they the same guys from that last movie? Also, how many years have gone by between the last movie and the 1st star wars (episode II and episode IV to you nerds)? I would imaginr that the ST have aged a lot if they are, in fact the clones from the last movie.



NERD!!!



Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:28:10 PM EST
I am a PROUD star wars nerd.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:30:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
I am a PROUD star wars nerd.




Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:30:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By kingfish:
Thanks for the answers. Now, if the storm troopers are the same clones from #2, wouldnt they be pretty darn old? Considering that the clones grew really fast? Also, if the ST are clones, why arent the other guys (whose faces can be seen) clones too? It seems to me that Lucas had no idea about episodes 1-3 back when he made the first one. I think he pulled a lot of that stuff out of his ass.


The way it used to be was that some of the storm troopers were clones, and some were humans. The humans began replacing the clones as they died, or were killed off
Off course, now that Lucas is rewriting everything, I guess the correct answer is, whatever George says it is today.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:31:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By paenutz:

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
I am a PROUD star wars nerd.




tinypic.com/amn90


You're
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:32:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:
and judging by the two of yours posts... Gabasaurus Rex is Han Solo and YOU'RE Chewbacca!!



I like that.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:32:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By paenutz:

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
I am a PROUD star wars nerd.




tinypic.com/amn90



If you are going to insult me for my movie preferences you could at least use proper grammer. It would be "You're a homo"
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 3:37:34 PM EST
After reading the books, I was under the impression that cloning was rejected after the clone wars; thus, storm troopers would not be clones
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:17:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 4:18:06 PM EST by JCHammer]
Hey , you can't describe the force..............until you've had to use it ! !
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:49:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:51:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:
www.vaq34.com/junk/amn90.jpg



Much better.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 4:59:01 PM EST



Why bring Australian Cricket into a Star Wars thread?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:00:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 5:10:35 PM EST by tfod]

Originally Posted By Avtomat:
After reading the books, I was under the impression that cloning was rejected after the clone wars; thus, storm troopers would not be clones



I believe you have the correct answer. It wasn't until the Timothy Zahn series (Heir to the Empire...) that the problem with efficient cloning was resolved. Clones go nuts with the accelerated aging to adulthood because of the force. The clones must be grown in an absence of the force if they want to rapidly age them to adulthood.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:04:23 PM EST
OK,here's my "stormtrooper" question...

What's up with the bright white....uhh...camo?
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:06:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By byron2112:
OK,here's my "stormtrooper" question...

What's up with the bright white....uhh...camo?



They are bad guys, they were created to be cannon fodder.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:20:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Atencio:
Seems like Lucas causes more trouble for himself trying to tie everything together.

Funny thing about storm troopers being clones is they all don't sound the same and if you look, easiest in ROTJ, they are not all the same heighth height



That's because some of them are female.

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:41:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:

Originally Posted By Atencio:
Seems like Lucas causes more trouble for himself trying to tie everything together.

Funny thing about storm troopers being clones is they all don't sound the same and if you look, easiest in ROTJ, they are not all the same heighth height



That's because some of them are female.

upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload9/Trooper.jpg



I'd hit it.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:43:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:

Originally Posted By Atencio:
Seems like Lucas causes more trouble for himself trying to tie everything together.

Funny thing about storm troopers being clones is they all don't sound the same and if you look, easiest in ROTJ, they are not all the same heighth height



That's because some of them are female.

upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload9/Trooper.jpg



I'd hit it.


Like a wookie in heat.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:44:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:
Like a wookie in heat.



Sigline material right there
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:48:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:

Originally Posted By kingfish:
I bought the 3 pack a few days ago and got into a discussion with the wife about the stormtroopers. Question is, are the ST's clones? Are they the same guys from that last movie? Also, how many years have gone by between the last movie and the 1st star wars (episode II and episode IV to you nerds)? I would imaginr that the ST have aged a lot if they are, in fact the clones from the last movie.



Another Star Wars thread?

What is wrong with this world?

www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030501/sp6.jpg

TRG



Whats wrong with Matther Hayden? And WTF does he have to do with STar Wars.

According to the books, they arent clones. Theres a training centre on Corellia.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 5:59:14 PM EST
^^ that's... disturbing.

I prefer to imagine that episodes 1-3 don't exist. This "all storm troopers are Boba Fett's dad" crap is ridiculous. The Storm Troopers are just regular human(oid) soldiers. Remember Luke wanted to send his application to the Imperial Academy - he could have become one himself.

The Imperials have UK accents presumably because they were hired locally to the production studio.

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:02:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By dmaas:
^^ that's... disturbing.

I prefer to imagine that episodes 1-3 don't exist. This "all storm troopers are Boba Fett's dad" crap is ridiculous. The Storm Troopers are just regular human(oid) soldiers. Remember Luke wanted to send his application to the Imperial Academy - he could have become one himself.

The Imperials have UK accents presumably because they were hired locally to the production studio.



No, Boba was a regular clone of Jango, and the other clones were "adjusted"
Which is still lame.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:04:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stryfe:

Originally Posted By kingfish:
Thanks for the answers. Now, if the storm troopers are the same clones from #2, wouldnt they be pretty darn old? Considering that the clones grew really fast? Also, if the ST are clones, why arent the other guys (whose faces can be seen) clones too? It seems to me that Lucas had no idea about episodes 1-3 back when he made the first one. I think he pulled a lot of that stuff out of his ass.


The way it used to be was that some of the storm troopers were clones, and some were humans. The humans began replacing the clones as they died, or were killed off
Off course, now that Lucas is rewriting everything, I guess the correct answer is, whatever George says it is today.




[triumph] That's wrong, the correct answer is WHO GIVE'S A SHIT! [/triumph]
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 6:05:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By jfrush:

Originally Posted By Stryfe:

Originally Posted By kingfish:
Thanks for the answers. Now, if the storm troopers are the same clones from #2, wouldnt they be pretty darn old? Considering that the clones grew really fast? Also, if the ST are clones, why arent the other guys (whose faces can be seen) clones too? It seems to me that Lucas had no idea about episodes 1-3 back when he made the first one. I think he pulled a lot of that stuff out of his ass.


The way it used to be was that some of the storm troopers were clones, and some were humans. The humans began replacing the clones as they died, or were killed off
Off course, now that Lucas is rewriting everything, I guess the correct answer is, whatever George says it is today.




[triumph] That's wrong, the correct answer is WHO GIVE'S A SHIT! [/triumph]



hey to us star wars fanboys this stuff is more important than life and death
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:47:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:

Originally Posted By kingfish:
Thanks for the answers. Now, if the storm troopers are the same clones from #2, wouldnt they be pretty darn old? Considering that the clones grew really fast? Also, if the ST are clones, why arent the other guys (whose faces can be seen) clones too? It seems to me that Lucas had no idea about episodes 1-3 back when he made the first one. I think he pulled a lot of that stuff out of his ass.



They kept on making new clones.



So what does the empire do with clones when they get too old to fight?
Do they have an old clones' home?

ktm500
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:58:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By kingfish:
Thanks for the answers. Now, if the storm troopers are the same clones from #2, wouldnt they be pretty darn old? Considering that the clones grew really fast? Also, if the ST are clones, why arent the other guys (whose faces can be seen) clones too? It seems to me that Lucas had no idea about episodes 1-3 back when he made the first one. I think he pulled a lot of that stuff out of his ass.



No, he didn't pull it out of his butt. He originally had enough material for nine movies (and this goes back to interviews from when the original "ANH" Star Wars came out), but he's denied vehemently he'll make all nine. Of course he also denied he'd make the Prequels.

As for the stormtroopers being clones, one thing I've looked at in the movies is that they're all uniform in size... Consistent with them being clones, even way back in the 1977 movie. However, I need to rewatch ESB because it's the first appearance of Boba Fett in the original movies and I want to compare his height to that of the Stormtroopers that are escorting Han through Cloud City.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 6:10:28 AM EST
Even clones can be of differeing height. If you know any identical twins you'll see what I mean.
I"ve known three sets of identicals and one set, the twins were two inches apart in height for some weird reason.

Probably the tall one ate more or something. Anyway, I think the Storm Troopers are regular guys, cause in one of the star wars books it said Han Solo was a ST at one point. I think oroginally they were clones but after clone wars they quit doing that.

All I know is those storm troopers are a bunch of damn pussies. In ROTJ those little teddy bear dudes where hitting them with rocks the size of an orange and they were goin' down like BITCHES.

Who needs a blaster with those kind of troops to fight? Give me a ruger 10/22 and about ten regular capacity mags and I'll PwN3D the empire.

Well, except for darth vader.......
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 6:17:01 AM EST
There is a difference between having 9 fully realized film treatments and having the broad brushed story lines for 9 films. I suspect that Lucas had a general idea of what he could do with 9 different films, but the details were far from worked out.

I suspect that the clones became more trouble than they were worth at one point or other and they were stopped. I somehow doubt that many clones survived to become decrepit. They were probably mostly killed off in various wars and police actions around the galaxy. The Emperor doesn't pay much attention to the health and welfare of his subjects. If some did survive to "retirement" it's a toss up as to whether he would have just had them killed or just cut them loose. They could certainly have provided additional service as trainers for the upcoming soldiers.

Stormtroopers are tallish (at least by Leia's estimation: "Aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper") Jango Fett was not tall by any estimation. So I suspect that the Storm Troopers evolved from the Clone Troopers as the clones wore out, humans were brought in to replace them, selecting from the tallest recruits for those closest to the lord high muckety mucks (just as 3rd Infantry Regiment soldiers must meet certain height, weight and waist size restrictions for their ceremonial duties).

Of course George Lucas is the one and only keeper of Star Wars canon and has shown himself perfectly willing to change his mind. NOTHING written by any of the book authors is considered true canon by Lucas and he retains the right to contradict anything and everything written by anyone other than himself. Nevertheless, he does review and approve all novels and offer suggestions if needed to keep them in line with his current impressions of canon.

So the Storm Troopers could, conceivably be clones. I just doubt it.

Link Posted: 9/29/2004 6:30:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 6:30:29 AM EST by wedge1082]
I know the answers to these questions about the clones.

Most of the Stormtroopers are clones. Although many of them are not clones of Jango. As time went on and more clones were needed and the honor of being used as a prototype for clones got passed on to high ranking officials, important people etc. Sort of a reward or perk. This is also used to explain why the Clone troopers are so bad ass, (because Jango is bad ass), and the Stormtroopers can't seem to shoot straight. Also some of the Stormtroopers are in fact not clones. The Empire needed more troops and growing Clones takes time, so they opened up the ranks to non-clones.

This is a summary to the same question that was asked in Star Wars insider awhile back.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 12:10:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By icemanat95:
If some did survive to "retirement" it's a toss up as to whether he would have just had them killed or just cut them loose. They could certainly have provided additional service as trainers for the upcoming soldiers.


What's a retired storm trooper going to do among the general populace, get a job?
What's a storm trooper know about installing toilet mains?
All they know is killin' in white uniforms.

<­BR>



Forgive me, but somebody had too.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 12:15:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 12:23:51 PM EST by warp_asylum]

Originally Posted By icemanat95:
There is a difference between having 9 fully realized film treatments and having the broad brushed story lines for 9 films. I suspect that Lucas had a general idea of what he could do with 9 different films, but the details were far from worked out.



Lucas has said he won't make Ep7-9 into feature films, but there's now talk about a Star Wars TV series (live action, as opposed to the Clone Wars cartoon) coming around after Ep3. The TV series would take place after the events of ROTJ, and presumably follow the general storyline he had worked out for Ep7-9.

That would be pretty sweet, IMO. Just keep the Gungans and Ewoks out of it.


Edited because ROTJ is Ep6. Oops.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 12:17:48 PM EST
originally clones, not after the clone wars.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 12:29:46 PM EST
Robert Byrd?


Originally Posted By Stryfe:
All they know is killin' in white uniforms.

Link Posted: 9/29/2004 12:31:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By sharky30:
Robert Byrd?


Originally Posted By Stryfe:
All they know is killin' in white uniforms.



Randal
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 12:51:34 PM EST
Nope, not clones. If any of you played Dark Forces, or Jedi Knight on PC, Kyle Katarn was a Storm Trooper for a while.

Who ever mentioned Lucas saying the books weren't really part of the Star Wars story, I believe you are wrong in that. I thought he considered it the "expanded universe" which also includes the storylines going on in the games. I think all the books and games and everything else have to be approved by Lucas (or someone in his organization) before they can be "official" Star Wars titles.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 12:57:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By jaqattack02:
Nope, not clones. If any of you played Dark Forces, or Jedi Knight on PC, Kyle Katarn was a Storm Trooper for a while.

Who ever mentioned Lucas saying the books weren't really part of the Star Wars story, I believe you are wrong in that. I thought he considered it the "expanded universe" which also includes the storylines going on in the games. I think all the books and games and everything else have to be approved by Lucas (or someone in his organization) before they can be "official" Star Wars titles.



Correct, but the EU is not considered part of Star Wars canon. Only the films are canon. In other words, just because something happens in the EU doesn't mean Lucas can't contradict it in the films, and be right in doing so.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 1:10:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By warp_asylum:

Originally Posted By jaqattack02:
Nope, not clones. If any of you played Dark Forces, or Jedi Knight on PC, Kyle Katarn was a Storm Trooper for a while.

Who ever mentioned Lucas saying the books weren't really part of the Star Wars story, I believe you are wrong in that. I thought he considered it the "expanded universe" which also includes the storylines going on in the games. I think all the books and games and everything else have to be approved by Lucas (or someone in his organization) before they can be "official" Star Wars titles.



Correct, but the EU is not considered part of Star Wars canon. Only the films are canon. In other words, just because something happens in the EU doesn't mean Lucas can't contradict it in the films, and be right in doing so.


I agree with you w_a, but I remember hearing that all stories had to be cleared through skywalker ranch to make sure they agree'd with the vision. Which, when I heard it, I thought was a great idea. So many franchises get broken up by hack writers and their own theories that I thought it was great keeping it "in house" If George wants to change his mind and start tearing it down, it doesn't really bother me. What bugs me is that the new films are really messing with the original trilogy. And now, he's going back and tinkering with the originals to make them jibe with EP I-III.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 1:17:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stryfe:

Originally Posted By warp_asylum:

Originally Posted By jaqattack02:
Nope, not clones. If any of you played Dark Forces, or Jedi Knight on PC, Kyle Katarn was a Storm Trooper for a while.

Who ever mentioned Lucas saying the books weren't really part of the Star Wars story, I believe you are wrong in that. I thought he considered it the "expanded universe" which also includes the storylines going on in the games. I think all the books and games and everything else have to be approved by Lucas (or someone in his organization) before they can be "official" Star Wars titles.



Correct, but the EU is not considered part of Star Wars canon. Only the films are canon. In other words, just because something happens in the EU doesn't mean Lucas can't contradict it in the films, and be right in doing so.


I agree with you w_a, but I remember hearing that all stories had to be cleared through skywalker ranch to make sure they agree'd with the vision. Which, when I heard it, I thought was a great idea. So many franchises get broken up by hack writers and their own theories that I thought it was great keeping it "in house" If George wants to change his mind and start tearing it down, it doesn't really bother me. What bugs me is that the new films are really messing with the original trilogy. And now, he's going back and tinkering with the originals to make them jibe with EP I-III.



That is correct. Lucas is very strict with the Star Wars license, and effectively has an entire company devoted to reviewing any licensed products to make sure they meet with his approval, and don't contradict what has already been established in the films.

However, licensed products are still not canon. He is free to contradict any and all things that happen in the EU. To my knowledge, there are only a couple of instances where he has contradicted something in the EU. I don't recall exact details, but I think they were mostly produced during the 15 or so years between ROTJ and TPM.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 3:26:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:
Anyway, I think the Storm Troopers are regular guys, cause in one of the star wars books it said Han Solo was a ST at one point. I think oroginally they were clones but after clone wars they quit doing that.

I thought Solo was a pilot, not a ST.......
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 3:29:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Avtomat:

Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:
Anyway, I think the Storm Troopers are regular guys, cause in one of the star wars books it said Han Solo was a ST at one point. I think oroginally they were clones but after clone wars they quit doing that.

I thought Solo was a pilot, not a ST.......



I think Han Solo might have been in the Imperial Academy at some point (not sure), but I don't think he ever became a ST or Imperial officer. The Academy is located on his home planet, Corellia.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 3:30:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Avtomat:

Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:
Anyway, I think the Storm Troopers are regular guys, cause in one of the star wars books it said Han Solo was a ST at one point. I think oroginally they were clones but after clone wars they quit doing that.

I thought Solo was a pilot, not a ST.......


Whatever he was, he saved chewbaccas butt and that's how they came to hang out.
I always assumed he was some sort of imperial officer.
I'm sure it was covered in a novel, but I haven't read them.
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