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Posted: 2/14/2013 11:23:32 AM EDT
My GF just tried getting her CCW application notarized and the resident notary at Chase Bank refused to perform his service based on moral grounds.

Is this even legal?

She just called me disappointed and kinda yelled at her for being such a push over.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:24:40 AM EDT
Yes they can refuse.

Why would you think otherwise?
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:24:43 AM EDT
Go to another bank? If you were nearby, I'd notarize it for her.

I don't think a notary is compelled to notarize anything.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:24:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2013 11:25:18 AM EDT by California_Kid]
Yes, they can legally refuse to render service just like anyone else in a service business can do.

If that happened to me at my bank, I'd close all of my accounts immediately.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:25:09 AM EDT
Is she a customer there? If so, move all her money now and tell the manager why.

If not, find another one. Banks usually offer the service as a courtesy to their customers.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:25:50 AM EDT
http://www.ct.gov/sots/LIB/sots/LegislativeServices/forms/NotaryManual.pdf

4.2.1, page 7:

4.2.1 Refusal of Service
A notary under Connecticut General Statute section 3-94f Prohibition re lawful
transaction, "… shall not unreasonably refuse to perform notarial acts in lawful transactions for
any requesting person who tenders payment of statutory fee.” This office does not define the
term "unreasonable.”
There may be legal implications not covered by this manual of which your employer may be
wary. Please consult counsel on these matters.

File a complaint with Chase and the state.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:26:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:
My GF just tried getting her CCW application notarized and the resident notary at Chase Bank refused to perform his service based on moral grounds.

Is this even legal?

She just called me disappointed and kinda yelled at her for being such a push over.


Why couldn't they?

I would go to his boss though, and on up the chain to CEO if necessary. Someone's going to be interested that their employees are turning away business based on a political opinion.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:26:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:
My GF just tried getting her CCW application notarized and the resident notary at Chase Bank refused to perform his service based on moral grounds.

Is this even legal?

She just called me disappointed and kinda yelled at her for being such a push over.


sure why not?

J-
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:27:13 AM EDT
Yes, I can refuse to sign whatever I want.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:27:39 AM EDT
Of course we can.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:27:41 AM EDT
I bank at Chase and they wouldn't notarize my NFA stuff. The guy at Chase is a rightwing gun nut too. He said that he's not allowed to do it. So I went to a mailboxes ect. No big deal.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:27:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jjc155:
Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:
My GF just tried getting her CCW application notarized and the resident notary at Chase Bank refused to perform his service based on moral grounds.

Is this even legal?

She just called me disappointed and kinda yelled at her for being such a push over.


sure why not?

J-


Because they are certified by the state and there is no fraudulent activity taking place.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:28:04 AM EDT
I would change banks. They will call and ask why. Then tell them.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:28:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:
My GF just tried getting her CCW application notarized and the resident notary at Chase Bank refused to perform his service based on moral grounds.

Is this even legal?

She just called me disappointed and kinda yelled at her for being such a push over.


Ask him if he's OK with forcing pharmacists and Catholic hospitals to offer medical services that they are morally opposed to then find another bank.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:28:45 AM EDT
Yes they can refuse...

And your GF could have squatted down and pissed on the floor to assert her dominance too, on moral grounds.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:29:07 AM EDT
I would certainly contact the agency that oversees notaries and ask. Seems to me that someone certified to perform a public service and licensed by the state to do it might not be able to pick and choose which documents or people to certify.

Maybe not. Worst case just wasted time. best outcome... someone at the bank gets heartburn.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:29:12 AM EDT
LibertarianYankee wants to force someone to perform a service for him.

L. OH. L.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:29:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:
Originally Posted By jjc155:
Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:
My GF just tried getting her CCW application notarized and the resident notary at Chase Bank refused to perform his service based on moral grounds.

Is this even legal?

She just called me disappointed and kinda yelled at her for being such a push over.


sure why not?

J-


Because they are certified by the state and there is no fraudulent activity taking place.


Then why did you ask?
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:29:50 AM EDT
Wells Fargo has no problems notarizing my NFA stuff and they do it for free!
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:29:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By badfish274:
LibertarianYankee wants to force someone to perform a service for him.

L. OH. L.


Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:29:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:
My GF just tried getting her CCW application notarized and the resident notary at Chase Bank refused to perform his service based on moral grounds.

Is this even legal?

She just called me disappointed and kinda yelled at her for being such a push over.


If you're a customer you are entitled to have the document notorized. Bring it to the attention of their management in the form of a strongly worded complaint. Also, get off her back and go down there and get on theirs.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:30:01 AM EDT
I thought as long as it was legally correct documents they have to. Morals have nothing to do with legalities.

Would close any accounts with them either way though.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:30:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Yes, they can legally refuse to render service just like anyone else in a service business can do.

If that happened to me at my bank, I'd close all of my accounts immediately.



This^^^^^^^^^

As a notary I have been asked and refused to notarize some questionable things over the years.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:31:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:
Originally Posted By jjc155:
Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:
My GF just tried getting her CCW application notarized and the resident notary at Chase Bank refused to perform his service based on moral grounds.

Is this even legal?

She just called me disappointed and kinda yelled at her for being such a push over.


sure why not?

J-


Because they are certified by the state and there is no fraudulent activity taking place.

They don't work for you, pal.

Plumbers are "certified" (licensed) by the state but they can refuse to unclog your nasty toilet.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:31:24 AM EDT
I get the Agency Admin. Secretary to do all mine. I refer other co-workers to her for their gun paperwork.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:31:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By badfish274:
LibertarianYankee wants to force someone to perform a service for him.

L. OH. L.


Notaries are certified by the state and each state has their own set of rules associated. From what I've read about CT this does NOT seem to be in compliance with the law.

You can STFU about my username about a libertarian wanting to force someone to do something, already.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:32:00 AM EDT
She could have said "The ability to protect my life has nothing to do with your morals. I hope that rapist running around pays your unprotected self a visit." as she was walking out.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:32:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JDC_VA_USMC:
http://www.ct.gov/sots/LIB/sots/LegislativeServices/forms/NotaryManual.pdf

4.2.1, page 7:

4.2.1 Refusal of Service
A notary under Connecticut General Statute section 3-94f Prohibition re lawful
transaction, "… shall not unreasonably refuse to perform notarial acts in lawful transactions for
any requesting person who tenders payment of statutory fee.” This office does not define the
term "unreasonable.”
There may be legal implications not covered by this manual of which your employer may be
wary. Please consult counsel on these matters.

File a complaint with Chase and the state.


Does the notary charge for her services? A lot of banks offer this for free so it may not fall under that statute.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:33:07 AM EDT
The bank has paid for this person to be able to be a notary. She is a Notary on the banks behalf. I would go into that branch and ask if they also refuse to open accounts or house funds for people who own a gun.

Id imagine a lot of gun owners would like to know the branches stance on that subject. The notary has no rights as an employee to refuse service on behalf of the bank based on her moral concerns.

The branch manager will shit his pants if employees indicate they don't want to service gun owners.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:33:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:
Originally Posted By badfish274:
LibertarianYankee wants to force someone to perform a service for him.

L. OH. L.


Notaries are certified by the state and each state has their own set of rules associated. From what I've read about CT this does NOT seem to be in compliance with the law.

You can STFU about my username about a libertarian wanting to force someone to do something, already.


The law (allegedly) forces someone to provide their labor to another. How very un-libertarian.

You could have gone to another notary in the time it took you to whine about this.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:33:34 AM EDT
I suppose he/she could legally, but refusing to perform a function of employment based on some sort of leftist morality is an altogether different matter.

I would have all kinds of fun at his/her expense. Climb the food chain with formal complaints.

Yes this is just internet opinions so take it what it's worth.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:34:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Angelshare1:
Originally Posted By JDC_VA_USMC:
http://www.ct.gov/sots/LIB/sots/LegislativeServices/forms/NotaryManual.pdf

4.2.1, page 7:

4.2.1 Refusal of Service
A notary under Connecticut General Statute section 3-94f Prohibition re lawful
transaction, "… shall not unreasonably refuse to perform notarial acts in lawful transactions for
any requesting person who tenders payment of statutory fee.” This office does not define the
term "unreasonable.”
There may be legal implications not covered by this manual of which your employer may be
wary. Please consult counsel on these matters.

File a complaint with Chase and the state.


Does the notary charge for her services? A lot of banks offer this for free so it may not fall under that statute.


In this case, no, the notary did not charge. Normally there would be, but if you have a bank account, the fee is waived. I understand your point BUT since there is a default fee which is waived, I would think that the law is applicable.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:35:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JDC_VA_USMC:
http://www.ct.gov/sots/LIB/sots/LegislativeServices/forms/NotaryManual.pdf

4.2.1, page 7:

4.2.1 Refusal of Service
A notary under Connecticut General Statute section 3-94f Prohibition re lawful
transaction, "… shall not unreasonably refuse to perform notarial acts in lawful transactions for
any requesting person who tenders payment of statutory fee.” This office does not define the
term "unreasonable.”
There may be legal implications not covered by this manual of which your employer may be
wary. Please consult counsel on these matters.

File a complaint with Chase and the state.


I predict that this will be as successful as my surfboard shop in Anchorage.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:35:09 AM EDT
It depends on the state. I am a notary pubilc. Here if you are a notary you HAVE to perform notarial acts for the public. Even if you are a bank employee who is a notary, but does not have a notary business on the side, you HAVE to perform notarial acts for any walk ins, whether they have an account or not. Plus the state dictates the maximum fee, which is less than a dollar. As a consequence, most banks here charge nothing for a notary signature. Obviously, you can't notarize something that appears fraudulent, but it is not up to you to decide what is moral as a notary public. You represent the state. It is not like a plumber's license. If I was her I would contact whatever state department regulates notaries and see what they say.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:35:29 AM EDT
I believe doctors have the right to not perform abortions based upon religious and moral beliefs. So why would I not accept a notary from doing the same, even if I think they are crazy?
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:35:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2013 11:36:20 AM EDT by Eukatae]
Do you want to be the guy that tries to force someone to do something they don't wish to do? If a notary told me they didn't want to but would because the law says they must I would look elsewhere. I don't believe in forcing people to do shit they don't want to....they have a word for it.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:36:04 AM EDT
Legal.

Its a service. What law are you suggesting that they are violating?
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:37:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Yes, they can legally refuse to render service just like anyone else in a service business can do.

If that happened to me at my bank, I'd close all of my accounts immediately.


this.
refuse me a service the bank performs? ok bye.. im moving my $ elsewhere
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:37:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BearArmy:
I bank at Chase and they wouldn't notarize my NFA stuff. The guy at Chase is a rightwing gun nut too. He said that he's not allowed to do it. So I went to a mailboxes ect. No big deal.


that sucks, the lady at mine was happy to do my NFA Trust paperwork. Good luck OP
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:38:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:38:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Eukatae:
Do you want to be the guy that tries to force someone to do something they don't wish to do? If a notary told me they didn't want to but would because the law says they must I would look elsewhere. I don't believe in forcing people to do shit they don't want to....they have a word for it.


It's libertarian something... right?
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:38:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By badfish274:
Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:
Originally Posted By badfish274:
LibertarianYankee wants to force someone to perform a service for him.

L. OH. L.


Notaries are certified by the state and each state has their own set of rules associated. From what I've read about CT this does NOT seem to be in compliance with the law.

You can STFU about my username about a libertarian wanting to force someone to do something, already.


The law (allegedly) forces someone to provide their labor to another. How very un-libertarian.

You could have gone to another notary in the time it took you to whine about this.


I'm not whining about this. I don't know what's up your ass, today. I came here to ask a question about whether or not this is legal.

This discussion is not whether I agree with the law or not. If it were up to me, the CCW wouldn't require notarization....

Instead of ragging on a fellow gun owner, you could just have just offered something useful to say.

The left sticks together to fuck us over (and in this case, the notary is obviously one of them). But instead, we sit here and bicker like little bitches and wonder why our rights are being stripped out from underneath us.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:39:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:

She just called me disappointed and kinda yelled at her for being such a push over.


I dont see her pic loading for some reason...

ps. bad move yelling at her.

pps. Reminder: Check your calendar. then kick yourself. (its Valentine's Day)

Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:39:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:39:22 AM EDT
I've refused some improper documents but that's about it. A few I-9s too but they can't be notarized anyways.

I have never accepted payment for rendering service.

Looks like whoever posted that statute above also notated he had to take money in order for him to be in violation.

I didn't give a fuck, a notary is just a witness more or less. Nothing amoral about that. Weird.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:40:04 AM EDT
Official complaint to the manager. Your bank is anti-constitutional? Why are your employees refusing to provide the services that give me reason to bank with you.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:40:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:
Instead of ragging on a fellow gun owner, you could just have just offered something useful to say.


You could have gone to another notary in the time it took you to whine about this.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:41:23 AM EDT
Take a copy of the CT statute back to the bank and get the guy's manager with him and cause a shitstorm.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:41:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By ShiftSix:
Originally Posted By BearArmy:
I bank at Chase and they wouldn't notarize my NFA stuff. The guy at Chase is a rightwing gun nut too. He said that he's not allowed to do it. So I went to a mailboxes ect. No big deal.


that sucks, the lady at mine was happy to do my NFA Trust paperwork. Good luck OP


I had an HR chick at the university notarize my NFA trust paperwork.


Pics?
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:41:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By badfish274:
Originally Posted By LibertarianYankee:
Instead of ragging on a fellow gun owner, you could just have just offered something useful to say.


You could have gone to another notary in the time it took you to whine about this.


If you actually read the fucking first post, you'd realize I'm not the one needing something notarized.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 11:41:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2013 11:49:40 AM EDT by blwngazkit]

Originally Posted By rg303:
It depends on the state. I am a notary pubilc. Here if you are a notary you HAVE to perform notarial acts for the public. Even if you are a bank employee who is a notary, but does not have a notary business on the side, you HAVE to perform notarial acts for any walk ins, whether they have an account or not. Plus the state dictates the maximum fee, which is less than a dollar. As a consequence, most banks here charge nothing for a notary signature. Obviously, you can't notarize something that appears fraudulent, but it is not up to you to decide what is moral as a notary public. You represent the state. It is not like a plumber's license. If I was her I would contact whatever state department regulates notaries and see what they say.

Same here in VA.

I (I'm a notary) can refuse to notarize a document only if the document's or person's identity/authenticity are in question.


Barring identity or authenticity problems, I represent the State of VA when notarizing a document and my Morals have jack shit to do with the document or person.




I take back what I wrote above...

Seems the handbook/code was changed last year adding the line "A notary may decline to notarize a document."
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