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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/21/2005 3:32:44 PM EDT

An AR15.com member from Germany would like to buy a Bushmaster upper I am selling in the EE. I don't have a problem with shipping it to him, but I want to be sure it is aboveboard first. This is a Carbon .22lr upper. I had a gunsmith thread the barrel 1/2" x 28 to accept my .22lr can. Would this affect the legality of it?

Thanks for any info.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:34:00 PM EDT
der krautland considers barrels firearms, which is why we get no east german AK kits from krautland
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:46:55 PM EDT
So shipping the upper to him would be like exporting a firearm to Germany? I guess that idea is a no-go, then.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:10:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:14:58 PM EDT
it the buyer a german or american soldier stationed in germany?

I have my AR upper over there, I cant own weapons but an upper will not fire on its own. I know that I am in the grey area but I am right.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:17:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By avengeusa:
call the state department to be sure, they will know, i call them whenever i need an export question answered, they are very helpful, but i do not think you would like the consequences of shipping an upper over there



Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:18:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
der krautland considers barrels firearms, which is why we get no east german AK kits from krautland



This is correct. You can go to a gun show in Germany and buy a deactivated M16 that is deactivated by plugging the barrel: the receiver is intact. They consider the barrels as the "bad" part.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:27:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cool-e:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
der krautland considers barrels firearms, which is why we get no east german AK kits from krautland



This is correct. You can go to a gun show in Germany and buy a deactivated M16 that is deactivated by plugging the barrel: the receiver is intact. They consider the barrels as the "bad" part.



Runs to the airport.

j/k
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:52:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 3:00:06 AM EDT by Oli]
hi,

from the german legal side the new owner needs a "buying permit". With that there is no
problem to buy a barrel or a complete upper.

There are serveral posibilitys for that "buying permit":

1. He allrady owns a AR15 on his Firearms permit (WBK Waffen Besitz Karte), than he can buy barrels and complete uppers for that weapon as long as the caliber is the same or smaller. e.g. 22lr for .223. For sportive purposes the barrel has to be minimum 16.75" or longer.

2. He has a hunting permit (Jagdschein). No minimum barrel lenght is requied.

So if the German has a "WBK" or "Jagdschein" its easy on the german side.

The thread on the barrel is OK. No Problems with threads on Barrels here. But dont send him the can.

But, AFAIK the sender in the US need a "exporting permit", that seems to be more difficult. I would love to buy a 20" goverment profile A2 complete upper for my OA-15, but the "exporting permit" seems to cost 100$ or more.

And Yes, lower and upper reciever are not regulated firearm parts. That is the Barrel and the bolt on long-arms and barrel, grip, slide on Pistols.

bye
Oli
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:23:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Oli:
hi,

from the german legal side the new owner needs a "buying permit". With that there is no
problem to buy a barrel or a complete upper.

There are serveral posibilitys for that "buying permit":

1. He allrady owns a AR15 on his Firearms permit (WBK Waffen Besitz Karte), than he can buy barrels and complete uppers for that weapon as long as the caliber is the same or smaller. e.g. 22lr for .223. For sportive purposes the barrel has to be minimum 16.75" or longer.

2. He has a hunting permit (Jagdschein). No minimum barrel lenght is requied.

So if the German has a "WBK" or "Jagdschein" its easy on the german side.

The thread on the barrel is OK. No Problems with threads on Barrels here. But dont send him the can.

But, AFAIK the sender in the US need a "exporting permit", that seems to be more difficult. I would love to buy a 20" goverment profile A2 complete upper for my OA-15, but the "exporting permit" seems to cost 100$ or more.

And Yes, lower and upper reciever are not regulated firearm parts. That is the Barrel and the bolt on long-arms and barrel, grip, slide on Pistols.

bye
Oli




Excellent post, thanks Oli.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:31:34 AM EDT
well i guess a few mp5 receivers would fit in my luggage, or may be a few sig 55x
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:56:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 3:57:48 AM EDT by ED_P]
I believe anything that is either considered a weapon component, or has a dual use (like a civilian airport radar component, as an example) has to abide by ITAR (International Trafficing in Arms Regulations)

Most companies that ship items or provide training or techincal information overseas, or even provide training to Foreigners on US soil, has to file a request with ITAR's overseeing agency, which can take 6-8 weeks to receive a go/no go on. The rules are complex enough that most companies actually have ITAR trained individuals who's job is to make sure all the rules and paperwork are followed, and forms are filed for any goods or services provided.

If you were shipping a bicycle part or a guitar, I wouldn't worry about it, but an upper is pretty obvious in it's potential use. I'd find a US buyer, even if you have to sit on it for a few more weeks, or lower the price some.

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:59:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:59:45 AM EDT
... If you're a business, it wouldn't be International Trade in Arms Regulations (ITAR) compliant.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:05:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 4:08:41 AM EDT by hardcorps1775]

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By cool-e:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
der krautland considers barrels firearms, which is why we get no east german AK kits from krautland



This is correct. You can go to a gun show in Germany and buy a deactivated M16 that is deactivated by plugging the barrel: the receiver is intact. They consider the barrels as the "bad" part.



Runs to the airport.


heeheehee devious minds think alike!

man, even for civs you gotta have a license, huh?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:55:48 AM EDT

OK, I'm not going to do it. Thanks for the advice.

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