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Posted: 10/9/2005 7:06:19 PM EDT
This maybe a stupid question but here it goes. Can one be a legal resident of two states at the same time? This issue is relevent to me because I am a college student and spend a lot of time in two different states. This becomes an issue faily often for things like hunting licenses, ccw permits, and firearms purchases. I am fairly certain (and I will look in greater detail) that I meet the criteria to be a resident in both of the states in question. However, is there some kind of clause that immediately invalidates residency in one state if you are a resident in another?
Thanks if anyone knows.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:08:40 PM EDT
That is a good question. Michigan doesn't allow ownership of Class 3 items without a Class 3 license.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:21:16 PM EDT
Anyone else have any ideas?
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:24:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
Anyone else have any ideas?



I have no idea.  I'd like to point out though,  if you are a double resident you'll pay two state taxes.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:30:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
Anyone else have any ideas?



I have no idea.  I'd like to point out though,  if you are a double resident you'll pay two state taxes.



This is true, but I'm so poor right now that barely matters.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:33:39 PM EDT
It's allowed for military regarding firearm purchases. Not sure in your case and a lot of FFLs have no idea what the law is anyway so mileage may vary depnding on the FFL.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:35:05 PM EDT

+1


I'm interested in this since I own houses in two states.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:37:00 PM EDT
Tag.

I believe you can be a resident of two states. I know that you can only have a drivers license in one.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:40:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 7:43:02 PM EDT by libertyforall]

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
It's allowed for military regarding firearm purchases. Not sure in your case and a lot of FFLs have no idea what the law is anyway so mileage may vary depnding on the FFL.



If you are active duty, you can purchase firearms in both your state of legal residence (home of record, usually) and the state of your duty station. I have no idea how this applies with regards to Class 3 items, since I never tried to buy any Class 3's. As for the general case of being a resident of 2 states, I find that very unlikely. Tennessee, for example, specifically states that anyone who is living in the state while attending a college or university is NOT a resident of Tennessee. However, this gets more interesting because you CAN be a resident of TN if you go to college in TN but you live off campus. I think there is also some sort of caveat that you have to plan to stay in TN after you finish school, but I am not sure about that one. Check the laws of the state where you go to college.

Also, you can only have one set of license plates on your car. I'm pretty sure that the state where your car is registered is your state of residence.

ETA: Best way to resolve this question would be to call the local ATF office. Explain your situation. My experience with asking them questions is that they are very helpful and can often cite the applicable statutes for these sorts of things, at least as far as federal regulations on gun purchases go.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:41:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
Anyone else have any ideas?



I have no idea.  I'd like to point out though,  if you are a double resident you'll pay two state taxes.



This is true, but I'm so poor right now that barely matters.



Not true. Most states only require you to pay taxes that you earned while working in that state. If you have a house in Michigan, but you work in Texas then you are NOT required to pay Michigan income taxes.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:42:12 PM EDT
I had this conversation with a cop not long ago. He seemed confused. I was basically winging it so he'd let me go as I was late for my office hours.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:44:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
Anyone else have any ideas?



I have no idea.  I'd like to point out though,  if you are a double resident you'll pay two state taxes.



This is true, but I'm so poor right now that barely matters.



Not true. Most states only require you to pay taxes that you earned while working in that state. If you have a house in Michigan, but you work in Texas then you are NOT required to pay Michigan income taxes.



Not sure about this one. Your employer will withold taxes from your salary based on your state of residence, not your state of employment.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:51:15 PM EDT
Your state of residence is the "one you vote in".
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 7:55:09 PM EDT
I live in Illinois, and work in IA, IL, IN, and MO.  My boss is in IA, but the company is out of MN.  The MN company had to register in Illinois to start witholding taxes for Illinois as I was the first employee.  

I disagree with those that have said yes, my experience is that the address on your DL is your residence for most "official purposes".  Having an apartment or whatnot in another state dosen't count.  Either you keep your old DL and remain a resident of the old state, or you get a new DL and become a resident of the new state.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:07:15 PM EDT
I know a cop who lives in CA, and has a residence in AZ. He buys shit in AZ (ARs, etc.) and stores it there. He uses a utility bill and state ID card.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:16:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 8:18:09 PM EDT by NAM]

Originally Posted By libertyforall:

If you are active duty, you can purchase firearms in both your state of legal residence (home of record, usually) and the state of your duty station.



Wrong answer. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

ATF form 4473. Definitions. See item 5.

Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:18:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2005 8:19:48 PM EDT by pieeater]
Tag. And not a stupid question.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:19:23 PM EDT
hmm so following that even though i am a legal resident of RI ( drivers liscence insurance etc) but i live in ME for college ( apparetment billing address etc) I am usually legally a resident of maine?


though i doubt most FFLs would accept this?
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:22:42 PM EDT
Wow, NAM, that was helpful. It looks more arbitrary than I thought. Based on that definition I think I'm good.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:23:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
Anyone else have any ideas?



I have no idea.  I'd like to point out though,  if you are a double resident you'll pay two state taxes.



This is true, but I'm so poor right now that barely matters.



Not true. Most states only require you to pay taxes that you earned while working in that state. If you have a house in Michigan, but you work in Texas then you are NOT required to pay Michigan income taxes.



You would be required to file Michigan income taxes if you earned money in Michigan.  This would include interest earned as well as wages.

Patty
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:27:02 PM EDT
That is an interesting question.

You say you are college student.

Do you pay out-of state tuition?

To get a hunting license you have to prove "residency".  In-state driver's license, utility bill, property owner, ect. ect.  I would think it would be the same for CCW.

You can be registered to vote in more than one state but yet it is illegal to vote in both for the same election.

For income tax purposes, I believe it is where you spend the most time (six months +1 day).

It would be good to hear from an attorney on this issue.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:29:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:

Originally Posted By libertyforall:

If you are active duty, you can purchase firearms in both your state of legal residence (home of record, usually) and the state of your duty station.



Wrong answer. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

ATF form 4473. Definitions. See item 5.

tinypic.com/egvhvp.jpg



Good catch! I wasn't aware of that. Good thing I didn't try to buy in MD back when I was stationed in TN. Though that statement on the 4473 isn't complete. You can purchase in a state adjacent to the state where you are stationed if you live there and commute. For instance, if you are stationed in Virginia but live in Maryland, you can purchase in Maryland. Not sure if you would also be able to purchase in Virginia in that case.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:31:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLGreg:
That is an interesting question.

You say you are college student.

Do you pay out-of state tuition?

To get a hunting license you have to prove "residency".  In-state driver's license, utility bill, property owner, ect. ect.  I would think it would be the same for CCW.

You can be registered to vote in more than one state but yet it is illegal to vote in both for the same election.

For income tax purposes, I believe it is where you spend the most time (six months +1 day).

It would be good to hear from an attorney on this issue.



yeah out of state tutiton ( they got all kinds of recuirements for residency that nothing else does, basically have to have been a previous resident, have parents in resident plan on living there for years etc..)

but i meet all the standards for instate residency for hunting etc if i got a ME liscense ( only reason i dont is it may screw with my car insurance)

so ive been wondering about this for a while, finally have a good bit of spare cash on hand and dont relish a drive back to RI on consecutive weekends ( 7 day waiting period ) to start my collection.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:51:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
This maybe a stupid question but here it goes. Can one be a legal resident of two states at the same time? This issue is relevent to me because I am a college student and spend a lot of time in two different states. This becomes an issue faily often for things like hunting licenses, ccw permits, and firearms purchases....



...as well as voting, jury duty, ect.

What some people do is get a drivers license in one state and a ID card in the other.  You may still have to declare a state of primary residence for voting, state taxes, and the Federal yellow form though.
Link Posted: 10/9/2005 8:54:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I know a cop who lives in CA, and has a residence in AZ. He buys shit in AZ (ARs, etc.) and stores it there. He uses a utility bill and state ID card.



I work with a cop who lives in Arizona and commutes to california for his work week.  He has a Cali DL and an AZ ID card.

Several local firefighters work here but live in Idaho and fly in for their work week.  I expect to do the same, live in another state and commute for work the last few years before my retirment.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 10:42:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 10:52:03 AM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
Your state of residence is the "one you vote in".



That is incorrect. You may establish a residence in as many states as you wish to as long as you meet that states residency requirements. Your state of domicile is the the state in which you always intend to return to, where you are registered to vote in a federal election and where file your personal federal tax return in. You may only have one state of domicile.

For the purposes of transferring firearms you may do so in any state you are considered a legal resident of under that states definition of the term "resident".  

You should consult an attorney in any state you plan on establishing a residence in order to comply with that states residency requirements.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 10:46:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 10:48:29 AM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Tag.

I believe you can be a resident of two states. I know that you can only have a drivers license in one.



That is incorrect. If a state issues a DL that is only valid within that state it is possible to have a DL in more then one state. The state of Florida is one state that will issue a restricted license that is only valid within the state of Florida.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 11:22:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:

Originally Posted By libertyforall:

If you are active duty, you can purchase firearms in both your state of legal residence (home of record, usually) and the state of your duty station.



Wrong answer. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

ATF form 4473. Definitions. See item 5.

tinypic.com/egvhvp.jpg



www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/newsletter/ffl_newsltr_aug04.pdf

SALES TO MILITARY PERSONNEL –RESIDENCY VERIFICATION

ATF has been asked to clarify how and when a
license dealer may sell a firearm to someone who is
on active duty with the Armed Forces. In
particular, how does the licensee verify that the
military person is a resident of their State and
therefore entitled to purchase a firearm? An active
duty member of the Armed Forces may have
more than one State of residence. The Gun
Control Act (GCA) provides that a member of
the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of
the State in which his or her permanent duty station
is located. However, the GCA’s general definition
of State of residence may also apply to some
active duty members. The general definition of
State of residence is the State in which an individual
resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she
is present in a State with an intention of making a
home in the State. If a member of the Armed
Forces maintains a home in one State and the
member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby
State to which he or she commutes each day, then
the member is considered a resident of both the
State in which his or her duty station is located and
the State in which his or her home is maintained,
and he or she may purchase a firearm in either
State.
As directed by the instructions contained in the
Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473,
any member of the Armed Forces on active duty
acquiring a firearm in the State where his or her
permanent duty station is located who does not
reside at his or her permanent duty station, must
list both his or her permanent duty station address
and his or her residence address in response to
Question 2. Further, in situations where the
transferee is an active duty military member
acquiring a firearm where his or her duty station is
located, but he or she has a driver’s license from
another State, you should list the transferee’s
military identification card and official orders
showing where his or her permanent duty station is
located in response to Question 18a.

Here are some examples:

Andrews Air Force Base is located in Maryland. A
member of the Armed Forces stationed at
Andrews Air Force Base who resides in Virginia,
but commutes to work at Andrews Air Force Base
would be considered to be a resident of both
Virginia and Maryland. However, a member
stationed at Andrews who resides in Maryland
would be considered only to be a resident of
Maryland.
The Ft. Campbell Army Base is physically located
in two States; part of the base is located in
Kentucky and part of the base is located in
Tennessee. Given this unusual fact, under the
GCA, a member of the Armed Forces who is
stationed at Ft. Campbell Army Base would be
considered a resident of both Kentucky and
Tennessee regardless of the State in which the
member maintained his or her residence.


Link Posted: 10/10/2005 11:24:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
Your state of residence is the "one you vote in".



That is incorrect. You may establish a residence in as many states as you wish to as long as you meet that states residency requirements. Your state of domicile is the the state in which you always intend to return to, where you are registered to vote in a federal election and where file your personal federal tax return in. You may only have one state of domicile.

For the purposes of transferring firearms you may do so in any state you are considered a legal resident of under that states definition of the term "resident".  

You should consult an attorney in any state you plan on establishing a residence in order to comply with that states residency requirements.



I am surprised that it took this long for someone to come up with a reasonably correct answer, IMO.  

I think it depends upon what each individual state means by "resident" and for what purposes. You might be a resident of a state for some purposes under the law, but not for others, and every state would probably differ.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 11:32:54 AM EDT
There was a guy recently from TX who worked out of his home for a company in NYC.  A NY court found that he had to pay NYC/NYS income taxes even though he had never set foot there.  It sucks cuz TX doesnt have city or state income taxes.

I'm form TX but have been living in NYC for the last 8 years.  I still have my TX DL which I renew on the DPS web site.  I also have my NYC address on it...never been a problem.  I am registered to vote in TX and voted in the last Pres. election while I was down there on vacation
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 12:19:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 12:22:33 PM EDT by rkbar15]
www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b12

(B12) What constitutes residency in a state?
The state of residence is the state in which an individual is present with the intention of making a home in that state. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the state in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one state and the member's permanent duty station is in a nearby state to which he or she commutes each day, then the member may purchase a firearm in either the state where the duty station is located or the state where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United states is considered to be a resident of a state only if the alien is residing in that state and has resided in that state continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. [18 U. S. C. 921( b) and 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.11]

(B13) May a person who resides in one state and owns property in another state purchase a handgun in either state? [Back]

If a person maintains a home in 2 states and resides in both states for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular state, purchase a handgun in that state. But simply owning property in another state does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that state.

a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/05dec20031700/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/aprqtr/27cfr478.11.htm

 TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS

  CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
                         DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 478--COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents

                        Subpart B--Definitions

Sec. 478.11  Meaning of terms.

........

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An
individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with
the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on
active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of
residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is
located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be
considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in
the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days
prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are
examples that illustrate this definition:

   Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a
hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a
resident of State Y by reason of such trip.
   Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a
home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer
months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months
of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a
resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in
State Y, A is a resident of State Y.
   Example 3. A, an alien, travels on vacation or on a business trip to
State X. Regardless of the length of time A spends in State X, A does
not have a State of residence in State X. This is because A does not
have a home in State X at which he has resided for at least 90 days.
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