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Posted: 7/22/2013 12:12:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2013 12:20:40 PM EST by LaRue_Tactical]
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:18:37 PM EST
I believe thay have already been doing this for several years.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:19:24 PM EST
Obviously, you've never been there.

In some parts it will be on the job training.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:23:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
De-annex - unannex - abandon large blocks of Detroit city limits ?

Ft. Detroit - might make some great urban warfare training area.

Just sayin' ...


ETA - It's a large sprawled-out area of 150 or so sq. miles.


https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6hMfh4pr-Ab67ZDX627gmljcWxwFQiBQlLRp6RJablN1z_sJKKQ2Sc5yT
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Brilliant! - It even comes complete with its own opposing forces.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:23:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2013 12:25:06 PM EST by munsen]
There was some talk about making parts of the city into a theme park where you could shoot zombies with paint guns or something.

http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2012/09/25/solution-for-decaying-detroit-zombie-theme-park/

EDIT: Sounds like an insurance nightmare though.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:24:51 PM EST
I'll take it all. I need a place to start my empire
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:32:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:33:07 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:

.....Brilliant! - It even comes complete with its own opposing forces.
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This. I would not visit in the summer but there's nobody on the remote side streets in the middle of the winter.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:35:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tnriverluver:
I believe thay have already been doing this for several years.
View Quote

They have been trying to do so, but have been hampered by one or 2 "holdouts" in many neighborhoods: typically older people who, despite being surrounded by houses that are either abandoned or illegally occupied by squatters, believe that the neighborhood will somehow "come back." Or are so afraid of change that they refuse to accept *free* housing closer in, with good neighbors and services.

If the Detroit government had any balls, brains, or integrity, they would simply employ eminent domain: "We'll give you $300k cash or clear title to this nice brownstone closer in to center city. Either way, bulldozer's show up on Tuesday. Let us know."
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:37:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2013 12:40:26 PM EST by yakmon]
climate too bad, local leo brainwashed, surrounded by FSA and democrats, no work for the willing. no way to hold them off, even with your resources.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:39:22 PM EST
Depends, how much of it is flammable?
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:40:19 PM EST
detroit, needing more Cat D11R for decades.


What a day trip that would make.


Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:41:46 PM EST
I also don't understand the problem with selling assets, like a huge art collection, to pay down debt.

Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:42:02 PM EST
There is only one solution for Detroit.

Nuke it from orbit.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:42:25 PM EST
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Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Depends, how much of it is flammable?
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Everything is flammable if you do your part.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:42:30 PM EST
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Originally Posted By R2point0:

They have been trying to do so, but have been hampered by one or 2 "holdouts" in many neighborhoods: typically older people who, despite being surrounded by houses that are either abandoned or illegally occupied by squatters, believe that the neighborhood will somehow "come back." Or are so afraid of change that they refuse to accept *free* housing closer in, with good neighbors and services.

If the Detroit government had any balls, brains, or integrity, they would simply employ eminent domain: "We'll give you $300k cash or clear title to this nice brownstone closer in to center city. Either way, bulldozer's show up on Tuesday. Let us know."
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Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By tnriverluver:
I believe thay have already been doing this for several years.

They have been trying to do so, but have been hampered by one or 2 "holdouts" in many neighborhoods: typically older people who, despite being surrounded by houses that are either abandoned or illegally occupied by squatters, believe that the neighborhood will somehow "come back." Or are so afraid of change that they refuse to accept *free* housing closer in, with good neighbors and services.

If the Detroit government had any balls, brains, or integrity, they would simply employ eminent domain: "We'll give you $300k cash or clear title to this nice brownstone closer in to center city. Either way, bulldozer's show up on Tuesday. Let us know."


That has been the problem with everything.

Try to close down half empty schools and bus the kids to other ones to save a shit ton of money? The parents revolt. Try to close down fire stations and police satellite stations? The residents freak out and instead they keep them open for 8 hours a day instead of having half as many fully staffed 24-7. By having at large voting for city council members, the crooks never get voted out and any time we have a mayor with the courage and integrity to do the right thing, he gets stonewalled.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:44:04 PM EST
Huge parts of Memphis are in the exact same condition. Hold out a little longer for a better climate and much friendlier state.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:44:07 PM EST
I am willing to give $1.00 USD per city block or per 5 acres, whichever is smallest.

It is an investment.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:44:08 PM EST
I think we should pool our resources and buy a big chunk of abandoned neighborhoods, fix it up real nice, build huge impenetrable walls around it, and start our own town called "The Enclave".

There will be armed guards at every entrance and everyone will be a deputy.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:48:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By WanderingOisin:
I think we should pool our resources and buy a big chunk of abandoned neighborhoods, fix it up real nice, build huge impenetrable walls around it, and start our own town called "The Enclave".

There will be armed guards at every entrance and everyone will be a deputy.
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I would like to be a chief deputy please.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:48:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By MedicBob:
I am willing to give $1.00 USD per city block or per 5 acres, whichever is smallest.

It is an investment.
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That would be great until you saw what the city did to you come tax appraisal time...
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:49:50 PM EST
That's something that's been talked about for a while. Abandoning certain parts.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:50:08 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:51:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:51:41 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dex357:
I also don't understand the problem with selling assets, like a huge art collection, to pay down debt.

View Quote


Because much of that art was donated. The whole region benefits from it. Once it is gone, the city will just have less appeal and will keep being a drain.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:53:10 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:


Then it's not a liability ... don't have to maintain services, street lights, etc. It would become unincorporated county land.
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By macman37:
That's something that's been talked about for a while. Abandoning certain parts.


Then it's not a liability ... don't have to maintain services, street lights, etc. It would become unincorporated county land.



There have been many efforts to do this.. You always have some senior citizen who refuses to leave the house they lived in for 50 years. Eventually they will die and the area will be abandoned, but the city is dying off even faster.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:57:49 PM EST
It brings a whole new meaning to fighting the Free Shit Army.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:57:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By R2point0:

They have been trying to do so, but have been hampered by one or 2 "holdouts" in many neighborhoods: typically older people who, despite being surrounded by houses that are either abandoned or illegally occupied by squatters, believe that the neighborhood will somehow "come back." Or are so afraid of change that they refuse to accept *free* housing closer in, with good neighbors and services.

If the Detroit government had any balls, brains, or integrity, they would simply employ eminent domain: "We'll give you $300k cash or clear title to this nice brownstone closer in to center city. Either way, bulldozer's show up on Tuesday. Let us know."
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Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By tnriverluver:
I believe thay have already been doing this for several years.

They have been trying to do so, but have been hampered by one or 2 "holdouts" in many neighborhoods: typically older people who, despite being surrounded by houses that are either abandoned or illegally occupied by squatters, believe that the neighborhood will somehow "come back." Or are so afraid of change that they refuse to accept *free* housing closer in, with good neighbors and services.

If the Detroit government had any balls, brains, or integrity, they would simply employ eminent domain: "We'll give you $300k cash or clear title to this nice brownstone closer in to center city. Either way, bulldozer's show up on Tuesday. Let us know."


Problem is, Detroit is broke, and a lot of the houses they are trying to doze, are not worth 10k .

They had a program going where they were buying and dozing houses. Did last long before people refused to move. Can't annex it, all the votes would be against..
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 12:58:32 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:


Then it's not a liability ... don't have to maintain services, street lights, etc. It would become unincorporated county land.
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By macman37:
That's something that's been talked about for a while. Abandoning certain parts.


Then it's not a liability ... don't have to maintain services, street lights, etc. It would become unincorporated county land.


Yep, I think that is exactly what they were thinking.

Of all that land in Detroit I'd venture to guess less than 10% of it would be considered serviceable. Including downtown.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 1:12:46 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dclark77:


Problem is, Detroit is broke, and a lot of the houses they are trying to doze, are not worth 10k .

They had a program going where they were buying and dozing houses. Did last long before people refused to move. Can't annex it, all the votes would be against..
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Originally Posted By dclark77:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By tnriverluver:
I believe thay have already been doing this for several years.

They have been trying to do so, but have been hampered by one or 2 "holdouts" in many neighborhoods: typically older people who, despite being surrounded by houses that are either abandoned or illegally occupied by squatters, believe that the neighborhood will somehow "come back." Or are so afraid of change that they refuse to accept *free* housing closer in, with good neighbors and services.

If the Detroit government had any balls, brains, or integrity, they would simply employ eminent domain: "We'll give you $300k cash or clear title to this nice brownstone closer in to center city. Either way, bulldozer's show up on Tuesday. Let us know."


Problem is, Detroit is broke, and a lot of the houses they are trying to doze, are not worth 10k .

They had a program going where they were buying and dozing houses. Did last long before people refused to move. Can't annex it, all the votes would be against..


Except they don't have the money to keep water, sewer, electric, trash, LE and EMS going to service that 1 little ole bitty and the 1000 druggies and thugs surrounding her.

The $300k isn't fair value - it's a bribe. But like I said, they don't have the balls nor the brains nor the integrity.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 1:16:46 PM EST
I have a plan.

The rest of the country sends their firebugs to Detroit.

Link Posted: 7/22/2013 1:26:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By R2point0:

They have been trying to do so, but have been hampered by one or 2 "holdouts" in many neighborhoods: typically older people who, despite being surrounded by houses that are either abandoned or illegally occupied by squatters, believe that the neighborhood will somehow "come back." Or are so afraid of change that they refuse to accept *free* housing closer in, with good neighbors and services.

If the Detroit government had any balls, brains, or integrity, they would simply employ eminent domain: "We'll give you $300k cash or clear title to this nice brownstone closer in to center city. Either way, bulldozer's show up on Tuesday. Let us know."
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Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By tnriverluver:
I believe thay have already been doing this for several years.

They have been trying to do so, but have been hampered by one or 2 "holdouts" in many neighborhoods: typically older people who, despite being surrounded by houses that are either abandoned or illegally occupied by squatters, believe that the neighborhood will somehow "come back." Or are so afraid of change that they refuse to accept *free* housing closer in, with good neighbors and services.

If the Detroit government had any balls, brains, or integrity, they would simply employ eminent domain: "We'll give you $300k cash or clear title to this nice brownstone closer in to center city. Either way, bulldozer's show up on Tuesday. Let us know."


nm, you did say 'cash.'
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 1:31:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 1:33:41 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 1:34:46 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Sixpack595:


Because much of that art was donated. The whole region benefits from it. Once it is gone, the city will just have less appeal and will keep being a drain.
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Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
Originally Posted By dex357:
I also don't understand the problem with selling assets, like a huge art collection, to pay down debt.



Because much of that art was donated. The whole region benefits from it. Once it is gone, the city will just have less appeal and will keep being a drain.



There's some appeal now?


They made the mess, and just like a private citizen, whatever it takes.

As long as they don't revert to the taxpayer, let the sum bitch and the folks there rot.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 1:35:26 PM EST
If they privatized everything, including all services, property, etc., to get an infusion of capital, would anybody really want to buy? Probably not. ha. Employees would actually have to be capable of earning their check.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 1:36:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:



Yep, manning Ft Detroit with enemy daily would be like a casting call for extras at the gates ... they've got unemployed that would love to have a reason to get off the couch.
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
De-annex - unannex - abandon large blocks of Detroit city limits ?

Ft. Detroit - might make some great urban warfare training area.

Just sayin' ...


ETA - It's a large sprawled-out area of 150 or so sq. miles.


https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6hMfh4pr-Ab67ZDX627gmljcWxwFQiBQlLRp6RJablN1z_sJKKQ2Sc5yT


Brilliant! - It even comes complete with its own opposing forces.



Yep, manning Ft Detroit with enemy daily would be like a casting call for extras at the gates ... they've got unemployed that would love to have a reason to get off the couch.


I have a feeling it would be more akin to Iranian insurgents coming to fight our troops in Iraq.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 1:38:52 PM EST
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Originally Posted By R2point0:

They have been trying to do so, but have been hampered by one or 2 "holdouts" in many neighborhoods: typically older people who, despite being surrounded by houses that are either abandoned or illegally occupied by squatters, believe that the neighborhood will somehow "come back." Or are so afraid of change that they refuse to accept *free* housing closer in, with good neighbors and services.

If the Detroit government had any balls, brains, or integrity, they would simply employ eminent domain: "We'll give you $300k cash or clear title to this nice brownstone closer in to center city. Either way, bulldozer's show up on Tuesday. Let us know."
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Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By tnriverluver:
I believe thay have already been doing this for several years.

They have been trying to do so, but have been hampered by one or 2 "holdouts" in many neighborhoods: typically older people who, despite being surrounded by houses that are either abandoned or illegally occupied by squatters, believe that the neighborhood will somehow "come back." Or are so afraid of change that they refuse to accept *free* housing closer in, with good neighbors and services.

If the Detroit government had any balls, brains, or integrity, they would simply employ eminent domain: "We'll give you $300k cash or clear title to this nice brownstone closer in to center city. Either way, bulldozer's show up on Tuesday. Let us know."


Jeebus dude. If someone wants to live in a crap hole, that is their right as an American, cram the eminent domain. Wanna buy them out? Make an offer, otherwise pack sand.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 1:44:58 PM EST
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Originally Posted By stevelish:


Jeebus dude. If someone wants to live in a crap hole, that is their right as an American, cram the eminent domain. Wanna buy them out? Make an offer, otherwise pack sand.
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Originally Posted By stevelish:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By tnriverluver:
I believe thay have already been doing this for several years.

They have been trying to do so, but have been hampered by one or 2 "holdouts" in many neighborhoods: typically older people who, despite being surrounded by houses that are either abandoned or illegally occupied by squatters, believe that the neighborhood will somehow "come back." Or are so afraid of change that they refuse to accept *free* housing closer in, with good neighbors and services.

If the Detroit government had any balls, brains, or integrity, they would simply employ eminent domain: "We'll give you $300k cash or clear title to this nice brownstone closer in to center city. Either way, bulldozer's show up on Tuesday. Let us know."


Jeebus dude. If someone wants to live in a crap hole, that is their right as an American, cram the eminent domain. Wanna buy them out? Make an offer, otherwise pack sand.



Well, what else do you expect them to do? Maintain city services for one guy who should essentially be in unincorporated county land that is still city because that ONE house is the only thing standing in the way of getting rid of liability? Sorry, but that's how things roll.

If I lived in Detroit, and someone walked up to me offering $300k in cash, I'd fucking take it and RUN!
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 1:45:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:


Brilliant! - It even comes complete with its own opposing forces.
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Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
De-annex - unannex - abandon large blocks of Detroit city limits ?

Ft. Detroit - might make some great urban warfare training area.

Just sayin' ...


ETA - It's a large sprawled-out area of 150 or so sq. miles.


https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6hMfh4pr-Ab67ZDX627gmljcWxwFQiBQlLRp6RJablN1z_sJKKQ2Sc5yT


Brilliant! - It even comes complete with its own opposing forces.

Getting them to where the miles gear is the bitch. That and blanks. Or is this... Live fire?
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 2:14:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:


Then it's not a liability ... don't have to maintain services, street lights, etc. It would become unincorporated county land.
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By macman37:
That's something that's been talked about for a while. Abandoning certain parts.


Then it's not a liability ... don't have to maintain services, street lights, etc. It would become unincorporated county land.


Instead of giving it to the county, they should clear the properties and then sell the land to the adjoining towns. Let Dearborn, Southfield, Oak Park and Warren buy that land and expand their boundaries. Those towns have industrial bases and could probably bring additional business into those new areas that Detroit could never attract.

Meanwhile Detroit earns much needed cash by selling off unproductive land. And once that land is developed by its new owners would bring economic development to the area that would benefit neighboring Detroit. Win-win for Detroit.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 2:19:19 PM EST
I want the part with the salt mines

Link Posted: 7/22/2013 2:28:14 PM EST
I thought there was a plan to have Wayne County reabsorb some of the cleared land in Detroit. Apparently the Big D is a large city with a small population. Let Wayne County have the land that is in the boonies and come back with a smaller Detroit that isnt so massive and unwieldy.

Or just wall it off and call it a day.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 2:31:32 PM EST
Call ED-209
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 2:33:39 PM EST
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Originally Posted By R2point0:

They have been trying to do so, but have been hampered by one or 2 "holdouts" in many neighborhoods: typically older people who, despite being surrounded by houses that are either abandoned or illegally occupied by squatters, believe that the neighborhood will somehow "come back." Or are so afraid of change that they refuse to accept *free* housing closer in, with good neighbors and services.

If the Detroit government had any balls, brains, or integrity, they would simply employ eminent domain: "We'll give you $300k cash or clear title to this nice brownstone closer in to center city. Either way, bulldozer's show up on Tuesday. Let us know."
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Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By tnriverluver:
I believe thay have already been doing this for several years.

They have been trying to do so, but have been hampered by one or 2 "holdouts" in many neighborhoods: typically older people who, despite being surrounded by houses that are either abandoned or illegally occupied by squatters, believe that the neighborhood will somehow "come back." Or are so afraid of change that they refuse to accept *free* housing closer in, with good neighbors and services.

If the Detroit government had any balls, brains, or integrity, they would simply employ eminent domain: "We'll give you $300k cash or clear title to this nice brownstone closer in to center city. Either way, bulldozer's show up on Tuesday. Let us know."


They don't even have enough money to bulldoze abandoned buildings. How are they going to pay $300k to people just to have them move?
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 2:36:47 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:


They don't even have enough money to bulldoze abandoned buildings. How are they going to pay $300k to people just to have them move?
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Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
Originally Posted By tnriverluver:
I believe thay have already been doing this for several years.

They have been trying to do so, but have been hampered by one or 2 "holdouts" in many neighborhoods: typically older people who, despite being surrounded by houses that are either abandoned or illegally occupied by squatters, believe that the neighborhood will somehow "come back." Or are so afraid of change that they refuse to accept *free* housing closer in, with good neighbors and services.

If the Detroit government had any balls, brains, or integrity, they would simply employ eminent domain: "We'll give you $300k cash or clear title to this nice brownstone closer in to center city. Either way, bulldozer's show up on Tuesday. Let us know."


They don't even have enough money to bulldoze abandoned buildings. How are they going to pay $300k to people just to have them move?


fire is cheap. Devil's night: ultimate addition
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 2:44:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2013 2:46:31 PM EST by Qweevox]
You know it's bad when people just leave. I wonder how many low-ball offers the owners turned down before they just gave up?






...once was the wealthiest cities in the world, with the highest per capita income on the planet. It really must have been something. It's hard to believe that their society fell so far so fast that they'd just abandon these homes and buildings. If anyone tells you real estate is a great long term investment, just think of Detroit.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 2:48:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2013 2:56:59 PM EST by matto4785]
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Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I have a plan.

The rest of the country sends their firebugs to Detroit.

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Current Fire policy(has been for a while now) is to let unoccupied structures burn to the ground. The Fire dept stations have been trying to map out what structures in the area are occupied, if a known abandoned structure is reported burning, they send a single truck to keep it contained to the building, but do not put it out until the building is gone.

Eminent Domain wouldn't work well, the houses are not worth dick, and the City has no money to buy up useless property. Honestly, its best to just let the holdouts deal with the dead neighborhood themselves, either they die, get burned out, or come to their senses and leave.

Also, the city already approached the neighboring cities about changing the borders, no city wants anything to do with anything that was part of Detroit.
Wayne County, who would likely assume control of any territory ceded by Detroit, is woefully unprepared to deal with patrolling, let alone controlling, that large of an area. While they assist Detroit police from time to time, they generally do not bother with doing anything in the City unless requested. Unless I am downtown, very rarely do I ever see a county or state car in the city, of course, outside of the downtown area, very rarely do you see a cop, period.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:15:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dex357:



There's some appeal now?


They made the mess, and just like a private citizen, whatever it takes.

As long as they don't revert to the taxpayer, let the sum bitch and the folks there rot.
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Originally Posted By dex357:
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
Originally Posted By dex357:
I also don't understand the problem with selling assets, like a huge art collection, to pay down debt.



Because much of that art was donated. The whole region benefits from it. Once it is gone, the city will just have less appeal and will keep being a drain.



There's some appeal now?


They made the mess, and just like a private citizen, whatever it takes.

As long as they don't revert to the taxpayer, let the sum bitch and the folks there rot.


But it isn't the city that suffers, it is the region. The suburbs, the foundations and companies that donated are the ones getting screwed in that deal. There are also a lot of pieces that have restrictions against being sold. Assets like the DIA, DSO, Hart Plaza, Belle Isle, they need to be kept intact or the city will be even less likely to recover. The city won't just go away after bankruptcy. It will continue to be a drain unless they fix what is wrong. Now, if you said that those city assets would be transferred over to the state or county in return for their financial assistance, I would be good with that. The DIA is fairly well run, keeping the City Council and the rest of Detroit's government away from it would be a plus.
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:28:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/22/2013 4:41:10 PM EST
Probably the suburbs will be forced to annex Detroit. I suspect the "reasoning" will go something like this:

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/12/white_people_killed_detroit/

Gotta love this:

As for complaints that the suburbs would be forced to subsidize the city’s underfunded-by-$3.5-billion public pension system, well, hundreds of thousands of suburbanites grew up in Detroit, where they were educated by schoolteachers and kept safe by cops and firefighters who are now in danger of having their retirement benefits cut. Moving across 8 Mile Road should not relieve them of all responsibilities to the city they fled.
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