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Posted: 9/28/2020 2:21:31 AM EDT
The whole Remington bankruptcy thing is interesting (main thread: LINK) and the highlight of the whole thing is probably Marlin going to Ruger, but this is what triggers my curiosity the most:
• JJE Capital Holdings, LLC as the Successful Bidder with respect to the DPMS, H&R, Stormlake, AAC, and Parker brands; View Quote DPMS, Stormlake, and AAC make complete sense with PSA's established business and those should be fun. But H&R? The last H&R branded firearm was built in early 2015. I assumed the brand was dead and dissolved. The idea that JJE is buying the H&R brand/IP 5+ years later is very interesting to me. Their lineup at the end was a shadow of what the company was, but it wasn't all bad... The Handi-Rifle and the Pardner and Topper single shot shotguns were what most people associated with the brand at the end. I wouldn't hate seeing those come back, perhaps with a modern touch or two. The Buffalo Classic was a fun relative of the Handi-Rifle, but I'm not sure how much of a market there is for that. The Pardner Pump shotgun was made in China. I don't know if the design is part of the H&R IP or not. If it is, JJE could produce them here under the H&R and/or PSA brands. That would be neat. It's a long shot, but the real treat could be revolvers. H&R made a bunch of revolvers, and I think some of those were made as recently as the '90s. The market is hurting for an affordable DA rimfire revolver. It would be really awesome if these could return, and it would fit with JJE/PSA's mission of maximizing the number of guns everywhere. And, because this is PSA we're talking about, it's probably worth mentioning that H&R made M16s at one point: The very first M16 I was issued in basic training was a H&R that was configured as an A2. And yes, I still remember the serial number of that rifle all these years later. I have no idea what JJE/PSA intends to do with the H&R brand, but I'm really intrigued and maybe a little excited about it. |
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Quoted: The whole Remington bankruptcy thing is interesting (main thread: LINK) and the highlight of the whole thing is probably Marlin going to Ruger, but this is what triggers my curiosity the most: • JJE Capital Holdings, LLC as the Successful Bidder with respect to the DPMS, H&R, Stormlake, AAC, and Parker brands; View Quote DPMS, Stormlake, and AAC make complete sense with PSA's established business and those should be fun. But H&R? The last H&R branded firearm was built in early 2015. I assumed the brand was dead and dissolved. The idea that JJE is buying the H&R brand/IP 5+ years later is very interesting to me. Their lineup at the end was a shadow of what the company was, but it wasn't all bad... The Handi-Rifle and the Pardner and Topper single shot shotguns were what most people associated with the brand at the end. I wouldn't hate seeing those come back, perhaps with a modern touch or two. The Buffalo Classic was a fun relative of the Handi-Rifle, but I'm not sure how much of a market there is for that. The Pardner Pump shotgun was made in China. I don't know if the design is part of the H&R IP or not. If it is, JJE could produce them here under the H&R and/or PSA brands. That would be neat. It's a long shot, but the real treat could be revolvers. H&R made a bunch of revolvers, and I think some of those were made as recently as the '90s. The market is hurting for an affordable DA rimfire revolver. It would be really awesome if these could return, and it would fit with JJE/PSA's mission of maximizing the number of guns everywhere. And, because this is PSA we're talking about, it's probably worth mentioning that H&R made M16s at one point: https://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab269/Combloc/Early%20Colt%20AR15s/Model%20639/P1190071_zpsoq4qsnt8.jpg The very first M16 I was issued in basic training was a H&R that was configured as an A2. And yes, I still remember the serial number of that rifle all these years later. I have no idea what JJE/PSA intends to do with the H&R brand, but I'm really intrigued and maybe a little excited about it. View Quote Huh, you're right. 2A shows out of stock all six models. |
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My guess is it was like an add on or part of a package deal. Really, we can only wildly speculate without looking at the numbers, assets, court docs, etc. But I guess that is what gd is for?
Who knows |
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Quoted: The whole Remington bankruptcy thing is interesting (main thread: LINK) and the highlight of the whole thing is probably Marlin going to Ruger, but this is what triggers my curiosity the most: • JJE Capital Holdings, LLC as the Successful Bidder with respect to the DPMS, H&R, Stormlake, AAC, and Parker brands; View Quote DPMS, Stormlake, and AAC make complete sense with PSA's established business and those should be fun. But H&R? The last H&R branded firearm was built in early 2015. I assumed the brand was dead and dissolved. The idea that JJE is buying the H&R brand/IP 5+ years later is very interesting to me. Their lineup at the end was a shadow of what the company was, but it wasn't all bad... The Handi-Rifle and the Pardner and Topper single shot shotguns were what most people associated with the brand at the end. I wouldn't hate seeing those come back, perhaps with a modern touch or two. The Buffalo Classic was a fun relative of the Handi-Rifle, but I'm not sure how much of a market there is for that. The Pardner Pump shotgun was made in China. I don't know if the design is part of the H&R IP or not. If it is, JJE could produce them here under the H&R and/or PSA brands. That would be neat. It's a long shot, but the real treat could be revolvers. H&R made a bunch of revolvers, and I think some of those were made as recently as the '90s. The market is hurting for an affordable DA rimfire revolver. It would be really awesome if these could return, and it would fit with JJE/PSA's mission of maximizing the number of guns everywhere. And, because this is PSA we're talking about, it's probably worth mentioning that H&R made M16s at one point: https://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab269/Combloc/Early%20Colt%20AR15s/Model%20639/P1190071_zpsoq4qsnt8.jpg The very first M16 I was issued in basic training was a H&R that was configured as an A2. And yes, I still remember the serial number of that rifle all these years later. I have no idea what JJE/PSA intends to do with the H&R brand, but I'm really intrigued and maybe a little excited about it. View Quote Same H&R who made springfield in WWII? Bring them back build m1 garand and top break revolvers |
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PSA's aim to get firearms into the hands of as many Americans as possible is lock step with H&Rs former market share.
The Handi Rifle was a go to hunting rifle to get it done for the least money. Economical, not cheap. maybe part of the deal, but it makes great sense to me. |
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If I remember correctly the H&R rimfire revolvers I have had my hands on were top break with horrible heavy triggers . The top break is very desirable as far as loading ,unloading and cleaning a rimfire gun but if packaged with a nasty trigger it is wasted .
I own a H&R reproduction trap door officers model that is very nice . The regular models were pretty rough but this was the 100 year (1873-1973) and they picked better wood and better finish , really quite nice. Not sure what the original price was , I bought used and got a decent deal at the time. Towards the end lots of the H&R stuff had pretty rough fit and finish but in its day was simple design at a reasonable price. I would think after all these years it is only a name and the designs really are not protected but what do I know . Might be interesting. It will be very interesting to see what Ruger will do with the Marlin line if that deal goes forward |
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I’d like to see parker sold to CSMC or someone that would actually make them.
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If PSA makes the Handi Rifle again I'd hope they make one receiver that works for shotgun/rimfire/all centerfire . Expand the barrel selection and make the barrels NOT have to be factory fitted, thread them , drill and tap them all from factory and sell iron sights as an option.
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H&R Topper is a rugged, durable, dependable rifle/shotgun. The rifles are reasonable accurate.
If anyone at PSA is reading this thread, I will buy a new Snake Tamer in 410, 20ga & 12ga. I would also like to see a rimfire version. |
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Maybe they will get the M14 tooling and start cranking out semi autos.
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If it's just the name and IP (no facilities / tooling), I can see them using it to rebrand and expand their premium AR offerings.
If they did get tooling and facilities, it's a great way for them to diversify - especially reducing the risk a new AWB would have on their business. |
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Still got to have final approval by the judge tomorrow . Thanks Freedom Group.
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I'm not sure how much IP it even includes. It just might be the trade marks for those brands
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Quoted: Same H&R who made springfield in WWII? Bring them back build m1 garand and top break revolvers View Quote Its not the same company. The original Harrington and Richardson went belly up in the 1986 and nothing is left. Even the factory building was demolished. This H&R was formed in 1991 to build new versions of old H&R designs. It was sold to Marlin in 2000. Tooling for the old designs is certainly long gone, lost when the original H&R went under. |
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Quoted: If I remember correctly the H&R rimfire revolvers I have had my hands on were top break with horrible heavy triggers . The top break is very desirable as far as loading ,unloading and cleaning a rimfire gun but if packaged with a nasty trigger it is wasted . {{blame tort lawyers in the Saturday Night Special era for that;; ¿is a simple 5 shot .455 Webley or .45 Schofield breakopen revolver with a 4" barrel too much to hope for?}} I own a H&R reproduction trap door officers model that is very nice . The regular models were pretty rough but this was the 100 year (1873-1973) and they picked better wood and better finish , really quite nice. Not sure what the original price was , I bought used and got a decent deal at the time. Towards the end lots of the H&R stuff had pretty rough fit and finish but in its day was simple design at a reasonable price. {{pallet wood stocks on .410's or synthetic stocked 20's & 12 shotguns with 20" barrels would be nice}} I would think after all these years it is only a name and the designs really are not protected but what do I know . Might be interesting. It will be very interesting to see what Ruger will do with the Marlin line if that deal goes forward{{this is very very interesting }} View Quote |
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Quoted: ... JJE/PSA's mission of maximizing the number of guns everywhere. ... View Quote I hope that remains their goal as they grow. Big corporations tend to lose sight of the small company's original goals, because big corporations have big overhead and big profits become the most important thing. |
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I'd love to see the handi-rifle and more turkish semi-autos and maybe even a good 870 clone pump back on the market.
Yall have no idea how popular the Handis were with the budget crowd. |
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Quoted: If I remember correctly the H&R rimfire revolvers I have had my hands on were top break with horrible heavy triggers . The top break is very desirable as far as loading ,unloading and cleaning a rimfire gun but if packaged with a nasty trigger it is wasted . View Quote H&R Sportsmen or 999 models laugh at your lack of trigger knowledge. |
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Quoted: If PSA makes the Handi Rifle again I'd hope they make one receiver that works for shotgun/rimfire/all centerfire . Expand the barrel selection and make the barrels NOT have to be factory fitted, thread them , drill and tap them all from factory and sell iron sights as an option. View Quote The later receivers did work for both shotgun and rifle. The issue was, some of the rifle barrels offered were under 18 inches and they didn't want people to make an illegal NFA firearm. You could send in your rifle receiver and get a shotgun barrel fitted, but not send in the shotgun for a rifle barrel. |
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The bankruptcy documents appear to split the firearms division into “Marlin” and “Non-Marlin Firearms” brands for the purpose of auctioning them.
It’s entirely possible that they just wanted the other pieces and H&R came with them. They may not be doing anything with the brand. The price of bolt action guns has gotten so cheap and single shots have gotten high enough that it was hard to sell a single shot. Why buy a $200 H&R when you can get a $299 bolt action? |
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H&R also made a version of the T48 for the trials against the M14. I got to shoot one many years ago; it was a beautifully-made gun. I know they won't bring that line back, but I'd consider getting back into FALs if they did.
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I like H&R, have a 12 ga and 20 ga, also have a 223 and 243. Simple and indestructible, the rifles are real tack drivers.
Used to have a Buffalo classic and stupidly sold it I hope the brand is revived, they were good entry level guns. |
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I had one of their M16A1s issued to me in Germany from 89-91. I always shot expert with that one.
Bring back the Handi-rifile in 300blk please. |
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I'd be happy if I could get a .357 barrel for my Topper shotgun. H&R used to sell them for like $45, now they're ridiculously expensive if you happen to find one for sale.
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My H&R pardner pump is still going strong after 10 years and a lot of shells through it. I don't abuse it or use it heavily but it cost me about $175 new and has never given me a problem.
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Quoted: The bankruptcy documents appear to split the firearms division into “Marlin” and “Non-Marlin Firearms” brands for the purpose of auctioning them. It’s entirely possible that they just wanted the other pieces and H&R came with them. They may not be doing anything with the brand. The price of bolt action guns has gotten so cheap and single shots have gotten high enough that it was hard to sell a single shot. Why buy a $200 H&R when you can get a $299 bolt action? View Quote Because a lot of us would rather have a walnut and steel single shot than a plastic stocked bolt gun. I love bolt action rifles. But there's plenty of room for a quality single shot in the market. Henry has no trouble selling single shots for more than you will pay for the various budget bolt guns. H&R's new owners, if you're listening, I want a single shot, short barrel, threaded, in .350 Legend or maybe .375 Winchester. ETA: or .357 Maximum. |
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Quoted: The later receivers did work for both shotgun and rifle. The issue was, some of the rifle barrels offered were under 18 inches and they didn't want people to make an illegal NFA firearm. You could send in your rifle receiver and get a shotgun barrel fitted, but not send in the shotgun for a rifle barrel. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: If PSA makes the Handi Rifle again I'd hope they make one receiver that works for shotgun/rimfire/all centerfire . Expand the barrel selection and make the barrels NOT have to be factory fitted, thread them , drill and tap them all from factory and sell iron sights as an option. The later receivers did work for both shotgun and rifle. The issue was, some of the rifle barrels offered were under 18 inches and they didn't want people to make an illegal NFA firearm. You could send in your rifle receiver and get a shotgun barrel fitted, but not send in the shotgun for a rifle barrel. Partially correct- the shotguns, muzzle loaders and some centerfire pistol cartridges like the .357mag, .357 Max, .44mag were built on the SB1 receiver and the larger calibers were built on the heat treated SB2 receiver. The SB1 could handle some rifle cartridges like 30-30, .223, etc and H&R offered them as well as .500S&W but when Remington acquired H&R they switched the rifles to the SB2. Rimfires were built on the SS1 frame and there was an SB2-10 for the 12ga slug guns and 10ga shotguns. See also Gray Beards Outdoors for all things H&R; they're the arfcom of H&Rs. |
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Quoted: Partially correct- the shotguns, muzzle loaders and some centerfire pistol cartridges like the .357mag, .357 Max, .44mag were built on the SB1 receiver and the larger calibers were built on the heat treated SB2 receiver. The SB1 could handle some rifle cartridges like 30-30, .223, etc and H&R offered them as well as .500S&W but when Remington acquired H&R they switched the rifles to the SB2. Rimfires were built on the SS1 frame and there was an SB2-10 for the 12ga slug guns and 10ga shotguns. See also Gray Beards Outdoors for all things H&R; they're the arfcom of H&Rs. View Quote Anyone who doesn't want to own way too many of the single shots - stay away from that forum. I went from a casual owner looking for accuracy tips to someone who has multiple barrels for every frame. And I have far too many frames. Embarrassing numbers. Of all the guns I own - my H&R/NEF single shots are my absolute favorite. |
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Quoted: Anyone who doesn't want to own way too many of the single shots - stay away from that forum. I went from a casual owner looking for accuracy tips to someone who has multiple barrels for every frame. And I have far too many frames. Embarrassing numbers. Of all the guns I own - my H&R/NEF single shots are my absolute favorite. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Partially correct- the shotguns, muzzle loaders and some centerfire pistol cartridges like the .357mag, .357 Max, .44mag were built on the SB1 receiver and the larger calibers were built on the heat treated SB2 receiver. The SB1 could handle some rifle cartridges like 30-30, .223, etc and H&R offered them as well as .500S&W but when Remington acquired H&R they switched the rifles to the SB2. Rimfires were built on the SS1 frame and there was an SB2-10 for the 12ga slug guns and 10ga shotguns. See also Gray Beards Outdoors for all things H&R; they're the arfcom of H&Rs. Anyone who doesn't want to own way too many of the single shots - stay away from that forum. I went from a casual owner looking for accuracy tips to someone who has multiple barrels for every frame. And I have far too many frames. Embarrassing numbers. Of all the guns I own - my H&R/NEF single shots are my absolute favorite. LOL, definitely. I like reading about the wildcats folks have built on them. We had a good sized thread on the single shot shotguns in the shotgun subforum here but I think it's been archived. They're a really handy and practical gun for most real world uses. Clint Smith even talks about how to use one for defensive purposes if that's all you have. Defensive Shotgun |
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Quoted: A lot of people forget H&R wasn't just crack-barrel shot-guns. They also made these. And arguably, theirs were the best ones made. https://pictures.gunauction.com/7917184241/14987537/001.jpg PSA H&R M1 Garands, here we come? View Quote Ding Ding Ding, We have a winner! We have a lot more plans for the brand. Thanks, Josiah |
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Quoted: Ding Ding Ding, We have a winner! We have a lot more plans for the brand. Thanks, Josiah View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: A lot of people forget H&R wasn't just crack-barrel shot-guns. They also made these. And arguably, theirs were the best ones made. https://pictures.gunauction.com/7917184241/14987537/001.jpg PSA H&R M1 Garands, here we come? Ding Ding Ding, We have a winner! We have a lot more plans for the brand. Thanks, Josiah WHOA. |
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Quoted: Ding Ding Ding, We have a winner! We have a lot more plans for the brand. Thanks, Josiah View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: A lot of people forget H&R wasn't just crack-barrel shot-guns. They also made these. And arguably, theirs were the best ones made. https://pictures.gunauction.com/7917184241/14987537/001.jpg PSA H&R M1 Garands, here we come? Ding Ding Ding, We have a winner! We have a lot more plans for the brand. Thanks, Josiah Oh shit.......... (eta: i always thought that dude was shooting a garand) |
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Quoted: If I remember correctly the H&R rimfire revolvers I have had my hands on were top break with horrible heavy triggers . The top break is very desirable as far as loading ,unloading and cleaning a rimfire gun but if packaged with a nasty trigger it is wasted . I own a H&R reproduction trap door officers model that is very nice . The regular models were pretty rough but this was the 100 year (1873-1973) and they picked better wood and better finish , really quite nice. Not sure what the original price was , I bought used and got a decent deal at the time. Towards the end lots of the H&R stuff had pretty rough fit and finish but in its day was simple design at a reasonable price. I would think after all these years it is only a name and the designs really are not protected but what do I know . Might be interesting. It will be very interesting to see what Ruger will do with the Marlin line if that deal goes forward View Quote I'd buy another one as this is kind of an heirloom piece. |
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Quoted: Ding Ding Ding, We have a winner! We have a lot more plans for the brand. Thanks, Josiah View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: A lot of people forget H&R wasn't just crack-barrel shot-guns. They also made these. And arguably, theirs were the best ones made. https://pictures.gunauction.com/7917184241/14987537/001.jpg PSA H&R M1 Garands, here we come? Ding Ding Ding, We have a winner! We have a lot more plans for the brand. Thanks, Josiah Ending the Fudd collector monopoly on worn out rifles by introducing quality-manufactured M1's would be epic. No short-cuts, make them good enough for 100 years of service, plz ETA: also, consult FTC on chamberings. 6.5x55mm is at the top of the list! |
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Quoted: A lot of people forget H&R wasn't just crack-barrel shot-guns. They also made these. And arguably, theirs were the best ones made. https://pictures.gunauction.com/7917184241/14987537/001.jpg PSA H&R M1 Garands, here we come? View Quote Mine is not as pretty as that one but it works awesome. |
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