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Posted: 6/6/2008 5:07:17 PM EDT
I have played call of duty 4 for the first time tonight.  I found it to be almost adequate for a modern combat simulator.

The USMC levels in the game are so chaotic and unpredictable I found my heart rate actually increasing while playing the game.

The game could be tweeked here and there and it would be very useful for helping to prepare soldiers and marines for the combat environment.

What do you think?  Is the game just a game or could it have value for soldiers and marines?
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:08:25 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:13:06 PM EDT
Very usefull for preparing soldiers for a combat enviroment?

what happend to bootcamp?

Just a game. A shitty one at that.


Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:14:19 PM EDT
yeah reason a ps90 or whatver it is trumps a 60 at 5 yrds
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:14:32 PM EDT
the military has their own pc games
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:14:45 PM EDT
I don't think bunny hopping and random grenade spamming translates to real life too well.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:15:54 PM EDT
If I fired an RPG at someone running at me it wouldn't disappear like it does in the game.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:16:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:16:43 PM EDT

Quoted:
I don't think bunny hopping and random grenade spamming translates to real life too well.


Ever try bunny hopping on COD4?  It slows you down, and you can't hop high at all.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:17:16 PM EDT

Quoted:
Very usefull for preparing soldiers for a combat enviroment?

what happend to bootcamp?

Just a game. A shitty one at that.




Yeah, working that playstation controller won't make you a soldier
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:17:24 PM EDT
in iraq we linked up a couple computers to a wireless router and did drills...react to contact, react to IED, vehicle placement, cordons, etc using battlefield 2.  you have to have the opfor played by a human or two to keep your paramters legit, but it worked in that aspect.  basically we used it to drill protocols for certain situations, and it really was limited to everyone knowing where they are going, facing, which vehicles went where, etc.

as far as using a game to simulate actual combat, it doesnt work that way. you can be the best at call of duty but when rounds start eating away concrete in front of your face nothing you learned in a video game will matter.  the only thing that will help you is muscle memory gained from repetetive physical training, and not being afraid to die.  video games wont help you with that.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:18:26 PM EDT

Quoted:
I have played call of duty 4 for the first time tonight.  I found it to be almost adequate for a modern combat simulator.



Somebody's gonna ask, so it might as well be me.

What's the extent of your modern combat experience?
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:20:38 PM EDT
Not talking about boot camp.


I am talking about after the individual is fully trained.  

I found the school of infantry and my training in my unit lacking in preparing us for actual combat.  I was in the USMC from 89-95.  I served in the first gulf war.

We were mentaly and physicaly prepared, but we could have used alot more training to become even more efficient and prepared.

We never used miles gear untill after the war.  We never used simunitions. or anything like that.  The closest thing we had was firing those blanks throught the m16 a2.

Our urban room cleaning SOP was to throw in a grenade into the room and then spray the room with burst fire.

Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:22:08 PM EDT

Quoted:
Not talking about boot camp.


I am talking about after the individual is fully trained.  

I found the school of infantry and my training in my unit lacking in preparing us for actual combat.  I was in the USMC from 89-95.  I served in the first gulf war.

We were mentaly and physicaly prepared, but we could have used alot more training to become even more efficient and prepared.

We never used miles gear untill after the war.  We never used simunitions. or anything like that.  The closest thing we had was firing those blanks throught the m16 a2.

Our urban room cleaning SOP was to throw in a grenade into the room and then spray the room with burst fire.



How old are you?
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:22:35 PM EDT
I am 37 years old.

I did not say the game was perfect, but I said it could be tweeked.

Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:27:31 PM EDT
This thread can get really...really good.

Video games are video games, not military simulations.  Want a military simulation?  Grab a real gun an train in the Military complexs and towns that the military made for such occasions.  

Real training for REAL soldiers, not fucking xbox and playstation.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:31:31 PM EDT
Of course real combat towns and simunitions is the best way to go, but for low cost training that could easily be programed to simulate an up coming mission. or to train and reinforce  squad or fireteam movements.  I would think something like this would be very good.

Yes a lot of things need to be changed in this particular game but the idea of a video game simulator to help prepare people for there missions seem like a good idea to me.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:33:57 PM EDT
the army uses video games...in a mechanized infantry BN we use CCTT for tanks, bradleys, and humvees.  they dont simulate actual combat, but more help with crew drills, learning to become fluid with your crew... and learning the steps involved for all the functions of the vehicle.  They also train coordination between vehicle crews so every crew knows their place and function during scenarios.





one of the cool things was i actually got to see a lot of the simulated monuments from cctt in the baghdad scenario when i was medevac'ed to the green zone.

nothing beats "contact! RPG team!".... "where?"......"floating in the air at our 11 o'clock"....



if one wants to simulate ground combat with a video game, let them get 2 hours of sleep, then sit in an armored vehicle for 6 hours in 120 degree heat wearing 90lbs of gear, then they get to run 100m to the console and play with deafening noises pumped into their ears along with a radio yammering away that they have to decipher and respond to...oh yeah, and the enemy is still attacking and you cant even see them because they are either concealed of you have too much sweat stinging your eyes....

i think that might cut sales a little bit.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:34:31 PM EDT
A perfect example of this is how the army uses simulators on their abrahms tank units.

These simulators might be crappy graphics but it really helps to prepare tank crews for combat.

The above post is a good example.  The military uses simulators but  they have shity graphics and sound.  They could have the people who made call of duty 4 to make custom games that actually was realistic.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:37:40 PM EDT
COD4 can be a good demonstration guide of things to do and not to do.....like a training video...so you play COD4 to a certain set of rules for 4 hrs on Monday morning then you go out for the rest of your military time and train for real.....

Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:38:27 PM EDT

Quoted:
Very usefull for preparing soldiers for a combat enviroment?

what happend to bootcamp?

Just a game. A shitty one at that.




+1

ETA: not saying computer sims couldnt be useful, but CoD4 sucks, I think something else might serve better in that regard.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:39:07 PM EDT

Quoted:
A perfect example of this is how the army uses simulators on their abrahms tank units.

These simulators might be crappy graphics but it really helps to prepare tank crews for combat.


those are the pics i posted above.  vehicle sims are way different from FPS sims. a vehicle sim can actually simulate a lot more and be way more realistic than an FPS sim, mainly because if one were actually doing ground combat it would be physical activity, whereas in a vehicle you would be stationary using a joystick, like a game.

ground combat requires training to develop muscle memory, something a video game will never give you.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:39:28 PM EDT
COD4 is an arcade game... hardly a combat simulator..

ArmA: Armed Assault is probably the best mil simulator out to date, infact I believe the military has their own version of the ArmA engine they use to train people on.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:41:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:42:15 PM EDT

Quoted:
Of course real combat towns and simunitions is the best way to go, but for low cost training that could easily be programed to simulate an up coming mission. or to train and reinforce  squad or fireteam movements.  I would think something like this would be very good.

Yes a lot of things need to be changed in this particular game but the idea of a video game simulator to help prepare people for there missions seem like a good idea to me.


Don't let it bother you, this is arfcom...land of absolutes and no compromises.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the Marines and Army were already using sims (ie, "video games") to augment training particularly regarding vehicles and squad level tactics.

Is a COTS version of COD4 suitable for this? Probably not.... but with some coding and customization (and tens of millions of tax dollars) people would probably be creaming themselves about it.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:42:42 PM EDT
i suppose it COULD be a simulator for the ac130 mission, but otherwise, you are smoking some good shit.
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 5:54:19 PM EDT

Quoted:
I don't think bunny hopping and random grenade spamming translates to real life too well.


I haven't seen any bunny hopping in CoD4.

Now, when the other team has its shit wired, and your team is a disorganized bunch of fucksticks (leaving you as the only competent one), it's a nightmare. You've got snipers and guys with M-60's on the roof all shooting the shit out of you at long range, you can't get close because of the fricking claymores and guys on the first floor with SMG's, shotguns, and assault rifles shooting the fuck out of you at close range or throwing grenades, you can't see shit because of stun and flash grenades, and none of your teammates will cooperate worth a shit.

And that fucking helicopter is circling overhead blowing you the fuck up with impunity every five seconds and there's an air strike coming in seemingly twice a minute.

So, really, it's what the hadjis went through when we entered Baghdad.

Now, when YOUR team has its shit together? That's a thing of pure beauty. Had the enemy holed up in a building once again, so we all simultaneously fired RPG's at the windows, doors, and roof, then threw grenades and stun grenades right behind them and charged in to sweep out the survivors. THAT kicked ass.

Now if only they hadn't totally nerfed the RPG-7 in multi-player. The projectiles are so fucking slow that I can NEVER hit a helicopter with one and shooting one at a guy at long range means he's just going to dodge out of the way, instead of traveling in a straight line you have no fucking clue where the stupid thing is going to go half the time, and you only get two shots, all adding up to make it next to useless. What's the point of including them in multi-player if they're so utterly worthless half the time?

CoD5 should be CoD4 with new levels, more weapons (MG-3, PKM, RPK, AK-74, M240, etc.), correct the mistakes and bugs in CoD4, and add some new features. Like, instead of a helicopter, you could randomly get to call in an IFV. You'd only get the chopper one out of four times. The IFV would be a lot less cheap (fucking helicopter just spams death with impunity, even if you DO manage to hit the thing with an RPG) than the helicopter and add a little diversity and realism. Ooh, or occasionally have a tank come instead of an IFV or helicopter. It also adds the realism of having to protect the vehicle from sappers and RPG teams. And have some destructable terrain features. Being able to realistically shoot through walls and stuff is a great feature, but I want to SEE holes being blown through walls. I want windows shattering. I want grenades to totally fuck up entire rooms. I want people to be able to actually DEMOLISH a building by hitting it repeatedly with grenades, RPG's, or having the tank blow it up. And would it be too much to ask to include a Stinger or two laying around somewhere on the map so we can shoot down that fucking helicopter?
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