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Posted: 9/7/2004 7:52:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 7:53:21 PM EST by FanoftheBlackRifle]
story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20040907/tc_nm/tech_diebold_dc

Calif. to Sue Diebold Over False Claims

Tue Sep 7, 6:59 PM ET
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - California Attorney General Bill Lockyer said on Tuesday he would sue electronic voting machine maker Diebold Inc. (NYSE:DBD - news) on charges it defrauded the state with false claims about its products.

Secretary of State Kevin Shelley has said Diebold deceived California with aggressive marketing that led to the installation of touch-screen voting systems that were not tested or approved nationally or in California.


Lockyer's office issued a statement noting he has authority to intervene in and take over false claims cases involving vendors to state.


"Lockyer determined sufficient evidence existed to go forward with a false claims lawsuit against Diebold," the statement said. The state's top lawyer earlier had dropped a criminal investigation of Diebold.


Diebold Vice President Thomas Swidarski said in a statement that the company was pleased Lockyer dropped the probe. Despite Lockyer's decision to sue, the company is "confident that the state's decision to intervene will aid in a fair and dispassionate examination of the issues raised in the case," Swidarski said.


California in April set tough new standards for electronic voting by ordering new security measures for e-voting machines, and California's Secretary of State called for a criminal probe into Diebold, the state's largest e-voting machine supplier.



This oughta make this years elections even more interesting, since their insecure machines are used in places other than cali.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:53:58 PM EST
I must be getting old myself cuz I prefer the punch a hole in the paper ballot method myself.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:01:06 PM EST
I'm not that old and I prefer paper. This electronic BS is nothing more than asking for trouble. Want a recount? Press the button and have it print the same total again. There's your recount.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:01:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 8:04:27 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:
story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20040907/tc_nm/tech_diebold_dc

Calif. to Sue Diebold Over False Claims

Tue Sep 7, 6:59 PM ET
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - California Attorney General Bill Lockyer said on Tuesday he would sue electronic voting machine maker Diebold Inc. (NYSE:DBD - news) on charges it defrauded the state with false claims about its products.

Secretary of State Kevin Shelley has said Diebold deceived California with aggressive marketing that led to the installation of touch-screen voting systems that were not tested or approved nationally or in California.


Lockyer's office issued a statement noting he has authority to intervene in and take over false claims cases involving vendors to state.


"Lockyer determined sufficient evidence existed to go forward with a false claims lawsuit against Diebold," the statement said. The state's top lawyer earlier had dropped a criminal investigation of Diebold.


Diebold Vice President Thomas Swidarski said in a statement that the company was pleased Lockyer dropped the probe. Despite Lockyer's decision to sue, the company is "confident that the state's decision to intervene will aid in a fair and dispassionate examination of the issues raised in the case," Swidarski said.


California in April set tough new standards for electronic voting by ordering new security measures for e-voting machines, and California's Secretary of State called for a criminal probe into Diebold, the state's largest e-voting machine supplier.



This oughta make this years elections even more interesting, since their insecure machines are used in places other than cali.



Ahh, but the machines are entirely secure... Seriously...

Of course, once a Democrat looses an election where they are used, there will be a lawsuit...

But if the Democrat had won, there would have been no problem...

I've looked at the complaints about the Diebold system, and it's 100% bullshit.

If you actually know anything about IT security, you know that the 'problems' cited are only applicable if you are dealing with a full PC connected to a network...

Without a mouse, keyboard, or network connection, the machines are 100% secure by physical measures. The only way they can be breached is if a machine is stolen and physically disassembled.

Paper is FAR more vulnerable to fraud than electronic systems. We've had it happen here in Milwaukee, where ballots were thrown away instead of counted

This isn't the movies, and these machines can't be hacked into just because they are computers. You need a way in, and since the 'way in' has been removed, there is no need for complex encryption or software security...
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:05:34 PM EST
I dont know about any problems, but around here we have electronic ones (not sure of brand). They atleast make it easier for the elderly to vote.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:09:29 PM EST
Doesn't matter in NEPA where I'm registered.

They'll find a way no matter what I do. We all just kind of accept it up here. We joke about it.

At least it's non-partisan fraud. Sometimes they get together and work it out too.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:15:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By ar50troll:
I must be getting old myself cuz I prefer the punch a hole in the paper ballot method myself.



Seriously...how hard can it be to punch a hole in a piece of paper? Even if it's heavy construction-style paper! The electronic machines are just too open to fraud and tampering and shouldn't be used, and I love electronic crap!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:18:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 8:20:09 PM EST by FanoftheBlackRifle]

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Ahh, but the machines are entirely secure... Seriously...

Of course, once a Democrat looses an election where they are used, there will be a lawsuit...

But if the Democrat had won, there would have been no problem...

I've looked at the complaints about the Diebold system, and it's 100% bullshit.

If you actually know anything about IT security, you know that the 'problems' cited are only applicable if you are dealing with a full PC connected to a network...

Without a mouse, keyboard, or network connection, the machines are 100% secure by physical measures. The only way they can be breached is if a machine is stolen and physically disassembled.

Paper is FAR more vulnerable to fraud than electronic systems. We've had it happen here in Milwaukee, where ballots were thrown away instead of counted

This isn't the movies, and these machines can't be hacked into just because they are computers. You need a way in, and since the 'way in' has been removed, there is no need for complex encryption or software security...




I know quite a bit about computer security.....I shoulda rephrased that, to be more along the lines of:

I DON'T TRUST ANY FCUKING VOTING MACHINE WITHOUT A PAPER TRAIL

I agree that a lot of the 'issues' that keep getting posted on /. aren't really a problem with the way the machines would normally be used.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:42:34 PM EST
Diebold is a subsidiary of Halliburton. Halliburton is a subsidiary of WalMart. Not only is WalMart non-union, but a large portion of their goods are delivered by a trucking company that's owned by the second cousin of the guy who cuts Jeb Bush's hair. And Jeb Bush owns a gun.

I know this to be true cuz I heard it on NPR.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 5:11:31 AM EST
In Wisconsin the Marquette U student Dem club got their paws on a stack of paper ballots and some of them voted a hundred times, and then bragged about it!

GunLvr
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 5:17:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Moof:
Diebold is a subsidiary of Halliburton. Halliburton is a subsidiary of WalMart. Not only is WalMart non-union, but a large portion of their goods are delivered by a trucking company that's owned by the second cousin of the guy who cuts Jeb Bush's hair. And Jeb Bush owns a gun.

I know this to be true cuz I heard it on NPR.



Link Posted: 9/8/2004 5:30:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Moof:
Diebold is a subsidiary of Halliburton. Halliburton is a subsidiary of WalMart. Not only is WalMart non-union, but a large portion of their goods are delivered by a trucking company that's owned by the second cousin of the guy who cuts Jeb Bush's hair. And Jeb Bush owns a gun.

I know this to be true cuz I heard it on NPR.



You don't know the half of it. I will most likely be killed in the next 24 hours for revealing this, but a friend of a guy I know who I met in a bar once back in DaNang knows some dude who said that there is secret room in every WalMart where the illuminati go to have video conferences. It is real convenient, they just drive to the nearest WalMart and flash a specal card to the manager who has been told to let whoever had the card do whatever they want.

They go there to plan what Alan Greenspan will say at his conferences, to plan the Simpson's episodes for the next season, to decide all federal, state and local elections, and to receive instructions from the alien that the Weekly World News found out about.

Gee, it smells funny in here. What's that green gas coming in through the mail slot? Why are there pixies in my living room? I have never seen a pixie carring an MP5.....
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 5:32:36 AM EST
Having worked with Diebold's products for years now, I can say without doubt that I have wanted to do a lot more than sue them...
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 5:51:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:
story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20040907/tc_nm/tech_diebold_dc

Calif. to Sue Diebold Over False Claims

Tue Sep 7, 6:59 PM ET
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - California Attorney General Bill Lockyer said on Tuesday he would sue electronic voting machine maker Diebold Inc. (NYSE:DBD - news) on charges it defrauded the state with false claims about its products.

Secretary of State Kevin Shelley has said Diebold deceived California with aggressive marketing that led to the installation of touch-screen voting systems that were not tested or approved nationally or in California.


Lockyer's office issued a statement noting he has authority to intervene in and take over false claims cases involving vendors to state.


"Lockyer determined sufficient evidence existed to go forward with a false claims lawsuit against Diebold," the statement said. The state's top lawyer earlier had dropped a criminal investigation of Diebold.


Diebold Vice President Thomas Swidarski said in a statement that the company was pleased Lockyer dropped the probe. Despite Lockyer's decision to sue, the company is "confident that the state's decision to intervene will aid in a fair and dispassionate examination of the issues raised in the case," Swidarski said.


California in April set tough new standards for electronic voting by ordering new security measures for e-voting machines, and California's Secretary of State called for a criminal probe into Diebold, the state's largest e-voting machine supplier.



This oughta make this years elections even more interesting, since their insecure machines are used in places other than cali.



Ahh, but the machines are entirely secure... Seriously...

Of course, once a Democrat looses an election where they are used, there will be a lawsuit...

But if the Democrat had won, there would have been no problem...

I've looked at the complaints about the Diebold system, and it's 100% bullshit.

If you actually know anything about IT security, you know that the 'problems' cited are only applicable if you are dealing with a full PC connected to a network...

Without a mouse, keyboard, or network connection, the machines are 100% secure by physical measures. The only way they can be breached is if a machine is stolen and physically disassembled.

Paper is FAR more vulnerable to fraud than electronic systems. We've had it happen here in Milwaukee, where ballots were thrown away instead of counted

This isn't the movies, and these machines can't be hacked into just because they are computers. You need a way in, and since the 'way in' has been removed, there is no need for complex encryption or software security...




End users might have a hard time but what if the code is corrupted before it's final deployment on the system. There have been plenty of occasions where code has been installed AFTER the machine were certified for the election. That's supposed to be a major no-no. Don't kid yourself, the company is not run like the CIA (bad example but you get my drift) with ninjas defending the inner vault where only the best minds and those dedicated to uncorrupted democracy work in white lab coats. There is as much room for error, bad logic, and bribery in this as in any other venue. Except in that case it would be far more difficult to detect with no paper trail from the voters, and intensive code audits from outside forces.

Yes /. is overboard on this, but I don't like black-box paperless voting either.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 6:07:53 AM EST
Interesting and relevant site:

blackboxvoting.org
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