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Posted: 10/2/2014 3:43:13 AM EST
A bankruptcy judge handed CalPERS and organized labor a decision they’ve long feared Wednesday, declaring the city of Stockton has the right to reduce pension payments and even sever ties with the powerful pension fund.

The verbal ruling from U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Christopher Klein was groundbreaking. It pierced CalPERS’ aura of invincibility and made clear, for the first time, that public employee pensions in California aren’t sacred. Two years after Stockton filed for bankruptcy protection, buried under more than $200 million in bond debt, a judge has declared that a municipality can walk away from its obligations to the California Public Employees’ Retirement System.

Klein’s ruling was prompted by a legal protest from Franklin Templeton Investments, which is due to be repaid just $4 million on a $36 million loan it made to the city during better economic times. Franklin wants a better deal from Stockton even if it comes at the expense of the pensions.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/10/01/6752346/calpers-bankruptcy-stockton.html#storylink=cpy
http://www.sacbee.com/2014/10/01/6752346/calpers-bankruptcy-stockton.html
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 3:45:12 AM EST
Good.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 3:59:59 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By disco_jon75:
Good.
View Quote


Yep,

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:00:56 AM EST
Public employee unions should be done away with completely.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:01:20 AM EST
Maybe this will help inject a little sanity into things down the road.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:17:09 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:


Yep,

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.
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Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Originally Posted By disco_jon75:
Good.


Yep,

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Including military?

Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:28:30 AM EST
Flew over Stockton on he approach to SFO last year. You could see the malaise from 10k feet,

Nice job smart people on the other side of the costal range
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:30:11 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.
View Quote


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.



Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:37:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2014 4:38:53 AM EST by p712k]
So if this spreads you guys are ok with public employees getting raises now to what their counterpart makes in the private sector since the main benefit of working there is gone?

Outside of California and a few NE states most state/local gov employees make between 1/2 and 2/3s less than their private sector counterparts. I do not mean DMV clerks but the people that get the roads built, services provided and organizations function: engineers, planners, IT, accountants, auditors, lawyers, etc.

Taken from the FDOC thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1668197_UPDATED_WITH_NEW_STORY___Friday_Night_Massacre___32_Fired___Florida_Prison_Problems.html&page=5

"Sounds like the SOP for most of Florida's state and county employees.

Offer shit pay/benefits - get shit applicants.
.Gov hires idiots thinking they're saving money. ($)
Attempt to train idiots into decent employees. ($)
Already good employees get trained to death and have more duties pushed on them. ($$)
Idiots need non-stop supervision from their "supervisors" and good, skilled employees. ($$)
Supervisors spin in their chairs while Rome burns. ($$$)
Those worth a damn take all the training, skill, and experience, and move on to greener pastures. ($$$$)
Stupid people then do stupid things wasting more money. ($$$$$)
.Gov agencies gets sued and whatever "savings" they had are now lost ($$$$$$$$$$)
.Gov officials and elected representatives act confused on why there's a money problem, even though they already lined their pockets with kickbacks from contracts and bonuses from being soooo effective. ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)
"The People" bitch that the government doesn't work, and want budgets slashed even further. (Priceless)

Wash - rinse - repeat.

I work in a school district with 10-15% turnover in a year. The Sheriff's Office isn't much better. Look like the DOC finally had a massive zip it popped"
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:39:47 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Koji:


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.



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Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.





Poppycock. Wages for govt employees are no longer lower then private sector jobs which have taken a hit over the past decade. And I don't think you have taken a look at the cutbacks in the beni's in the private sector recently either.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:46:40 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Koji:


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.



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Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.




x87
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:47:55 AM EST
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Including military?

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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Originally Posted By disco_jon75:
Good.


Yep,

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Including military?



Yes, including military.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:48:45 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Koji:


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.

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Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.



Good. Government jobs shouldn't be cushy, well-paid positions.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:53:22 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By disco_jon75:
Good.
View Quote

and bad. The retirees and those close to retirement that planned on that benefit are getting screwed. Hopefully this will cause a shift in the way pensions are funded.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:54:29 AM EST
I don't agree with this. A contract is a contract.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:56:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2014 4:59:05 AM EST by Kharn]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:


Including military?

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Originally Posted By disco_jon75:
Good.


Yep,

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Including military?


Yeap. Defined contribution only.
Originally Posted By eracer:
I don't agree with this. A contract is a contract.

Except the contract is written between politicians and union leaders who hold a huge sway in CA elections, with no independent evaluation or fiscal reality being forced on them. That's how we get stuck with things like pension spiking and letting people retire after 20 years so they can start a second career while double-dipping.

Kharn
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:57:14 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:


Good. Government jobs shouldn't be cushy, well-paid positions.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.



Good. Government jobs shouldn't be cushy, well-paid positions.


My BFF has been an LEO for 8 years, same department the whole time. Made $93k last year.
His wife was a teacher for 4 years before babies, she was at $56k per year.
My FIL is set to retire in March with a $112k annual pension from the state (NJ).

They all sound like they were more than fairly compensated. They would be doing alright at 75-80% of current pay. Why is the public sector blowing money like this?
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 4:58:13 AM EST
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Originally Posted By eracer:
I don't agree with this. A contract is a contract.
View Quote


The private sector started it 30+ years ago and few people had an issue with it. Why should anyone care any more just because it's a government entity that is doing the exact same thing and why should government workers have any more legal recourse then the private industry workers that got screwed?
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 5:07:01 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:


Good. Government jobs shouldn't be cushy, well-paid positions.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.



Good. Government jobs shouldn't be cushy, well-paid positions.


Damn, that sure is a myopic view....You put shit in - You get shit out.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 5:12:50 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1srelluc:


Damn, that sure is a myopic view....You put shit in - You get shit out.
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Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.



Good. Government jobs shouldn't be cushy, well-paid positions.


Damn, that sure is a myopic view....You put shit in - You get shit out.


We get shit either way. It's just a matter of how much we pay for it.

Link Posted: 10/2/2014 5:17:52 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

Good. Government jobs shouldn't be cushy, well-paid positions.
View Quote


Then why work in them?

The only point would be if you can't find something else. Without the pension, they are bottom of the rung jobs. I say this because I have close family who spent careers in various levels of the federal and state, and I learned from their mistakes.

Link Posted: 10/2/2014 5:20:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2014 6:28:49 AM EST by FreedomUSCG]
This is going to bring about events, in the streets, that will make Ferguson look like a birthday party!

Just imagine riots in every town,city and metropolitan area all at ounce! Where will the resources be used and deployed first?

This is why people I know, are preparing to sit out, with armed friends these coming situations.....
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 5:35:47 AM EST
Military pensions are next.

Link Posted: 10/2/2014 5:42:02 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By eracer:
I don't agree with this. A contract is a contract.
View Quote

No direct consent from payor, contract invalid.

All defined benefit plans should be outlawed.

Period.



























PERIOD?
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 5:47:56 AM EST
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Originally Posted By eracer:
I don't agree with this. A contract is a contract.
View Quote


So the bankrupt city should also repay the full $36 million loan then too?

Link Posted: 10/2/2014 5:54:45 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Koji:


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.



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Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.





Are you kidding? The average govt drone gets paid much better than their non govt counterpart, and thats not even counting the benifits that the govt worker gets.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 5:56:09 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By eracer:
I don't agree with this. A contract is a contract.
View Quote

When the piggy bank reaches zero contracts don't mean a whole lot.

I bet you have no problem with the lenders getting the shaft?


Link Posted: 10/2/2014 5:59:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2014 6:04:41 AM EST by squirrelslayer1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fxntime:


Poppycock. Wages for govt employees are no longer lower then private sector jobs which have taken a hit over the past decade. And I don't think you have taken a look at the cutbacks in the beni's in the private sector recently either.
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Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.




Poppycock. Wages for govt employees are no longer lower then private sector jobs which have taken a hit over the past decade. And I don't think you have taken a look at the cutbacks in the beni's in the private sector recently either.


I am an engineer for the state, and get paid about half of what I would in the private sector. And as far as state agencies go, my agency has the lowest paid engineers of all other state agencies. My benefits suck; my insurance is so lousy, that I have to go outside to get better coverage. My pension is not impressive. My company offers no other retirement funding; no IRAs, no price matching, nothing. If I knew that I was going to have my pension pulled (which I might add, is taken out of my paycheck monthly) I would quit yesterday.

But yeah, screw all .gov employees and their families.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:02:59 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Koji:


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.



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Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.





Do you get an email with the talking points on a regular basis or did you just pull that out of your ass.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:03:10 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Koji:
Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

View Quote

You make it sound like eliminating pensions is a very good way to shrink the size of government (it's difficult to have a massive government when no one wants to work for it) AND eliminate the incentive to build power bases in the bureaucracy which would remain (not much point in accumulating power in an agency you which you plan to leave).
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:05:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:06:11 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Koji:


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.


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Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.




LoL. That was a great argument in 1952. It isn't true anymore.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:06:32 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:


We get shit either way. It's just a matter of how much we pay for it.

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Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.



Good. Government jobs shouldn't be cushy, well-paid positions.


Damn, that sure is a myopic view....You put shit in - You get shit out.


We get shit either way. It's just a matter of how much we pay for it.



Then we will send a few convicts over for you to care for if you can do a better job while meeting state and federal standards.....On your dime.

Get to work keeping the roads up while you are at it....You can't use the convicts either.


Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:08:09 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:


I am an engineer for the state, and get paid about half of what I would in the private sector. And as far as state agencies go, my agency has the lowest paid engineers of all other state agencies. My benefits suck; my insurance is so lousy, that I have to go outside to get better coverage. My pension is not impressive. My company offers no other retirement funding; no IRAs, no price matching, nothing. If I knew that I was going to have my pension pulled (which I might add, is taken out of my paycheck monthly) I would quit yesterday.

But yeah, screw all .gov employees and their families.
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Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.




Poppycock. Wages for govt employees are no longer lower then private sector jobs which have taken a hit over the past decade. And I don't think you have taken a look at the cutbacks in the beni's in the private sector recently either.


I am an engineer for the state, and get paid about half of what I would in the private sector. And as far as state agencies go, my agency has the lowest paid engineers of all other state agencies. My benefits suck; my insurance is so lousy, that I have to go outside to get better coverage. My pension is not impressive. My company offers no other retirement funding; no IRAs, no price matching, nothing. If I knew that I was going to have my pension pulled (which I might add, is taken out of my paycheck monthly) I would quit yesterday.

But yeah, screw all .gov employees and their families.


Please tell us more about how you were forced at gunpoint to apply for a government job. You know, instead of applying to the private sector.



Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:08:19 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:


I am an engineer for the state, and get paid about half of what I would in the private sector. My benefits suck, and my pension is not impressive. My company offers no other retirement funding; no IRAs, no price matching, nothing. If I knew that I was going to have my pension pulled (which I might add, is taken out of my paycheck monthly) I would quit yesterday.

But yeah, screw all .gov employees and their families.
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Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.




Poppycock. Wages for govt employees are no longer lower then private sector jobs which have taken a hit over the past decade. And I don't think you have taken a look at the cutbacks in the beni's in the private sector recently either.


I am an engineer for the state, and get paid about half of what I would in the private sector. My benefits suck, and my pension is not impressive. My company offers no other retirement funding; no IRAs, no price matching, nothing. If I knew that I was going to have my pension pulled (which I might add, is taken out of my paycheck monthly) I would quit yesterday.

But yeah, screw all .gov employees and their families.

To be fair, most gov't unions (and by proxy their members) have no problems with screwing over the American taxpayers and their families.


Defined-contribution pensions would alleviate most of the issues, but it's tough to buy votes with that.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:10:40 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lostnswv:


Do you get an email with the talking points on a regular basis or did you just pull that out of your ass.
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.





Do you get an email with the talking points on a regular basis or did you just pull that out of your ass.

It's imprinted in almost every gov't worker.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:11:08 AM EST
LOL at the .gov employee butthurt in this thread.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:11:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2014 6:15:04 AM EST by fxntime]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:


I am an engineer for the state, and get paid about half of what I would in the private sector. And as far as state agencies go, my agency has the lowest paid engineers of all other state agencies. My benefits suck; my insurance is so lousy, that I have to go outside to get better coverage. My pension is not impressive. My company offers no other retirement funding; no IRAs, no price matching, nothing. If I knew that I was going to have my pension pulled (which I might add, is taken out of my paycheck monthly) I would quit yesterday.

But yeah, screw all .gov employees and their families.
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Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.




Poppycock. Wages for govt employees are no longer lower then private sector jobs which have taken a hit over the past decade. And I don't think you have taken a look at the cutbacks in the beni's in the private sector recently either.


I am an engineer for the state, and get paid about half of what I would in the private sector. And as far as state agencies go, my agency has the lowest paid engineers of all other state agencies. My benefits suck; my insurance is so lousy, that I have to go outside to get better coverage. My pension is not impressive. My company offers no other retirement funding; no IRAs, no price matching, nothing. If I knew that I was going to have my pension pulled (which I might add, is taken out of my paycheck monthly) I would quit yesterday.

But yeah, screw all .gov employees and their families.


So why would you work your whole life at a govt entity that supposedly is so pathetic? It's not like you would not be able to have a better retirement 401K Roth or some other IRA if you were pulling in double the bucks along with better Beni's. It just doesn't compute.

And again, I ask the question, why should private industry be different then a public one as far as walking away from retirement pension promises? [other then taxpayers are looked at as sheep to be financially fleeced in perpetuity if the public entity screws up]

I am not slamming on you or any govt worker, I just want to know why they think the public sector pension promises are more important then the millions of private pension promises that were trashed. Because to most people, they aren't other then people can be forced to fund them thru taxes which is not the case with private entities for the most part.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:11:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:14:10 AM EST
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Originally Posted By FMJ3:

When the piggy bank reaches zero contracts don't mean a whole lot.

I bet you have no problem with the lenders getting the shaft?


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Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Originally Posted By eracer:
I don't agree with this. A contract is a contract.

When the piggy bank reaches zero contracts don't mean a whole lot.

I bet you have no problem with the lenders getting the shaft?





This. As much as I hate to see it, these munnies have no choice. Yes they signed contracts, in a lot of cases more generous than they could afford based on projected tax base that dried up do to obamas shitty economy.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:18:41 AM EST
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Originally Posted By eracer:
I don't agree with this. A contract is a contract.
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I have my own sob story....

But in my opinion, the more people who wise up to how the .gov goes back on its word, the better.


Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:19:38 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Koji:


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.



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Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.



This.

Taken to its logical conclusion--be prepared to have the dumbest fuckers that have ever walked this earth working at every booth at the DMV, for the rest of your life.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:19:52 AM EST
There was the thread a few days ago about uniformed gov employees making over $100K pensions, then this thread about generous teacher pensions: Generous teacher pensions The problem isn't the average pension of gov employees, it is the abuse- abuse which can often be traced to the democrat money laundering scheme with government unions.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:22:29 AM EST
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Originally Posted By FedDC:
Military pensions are next.

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Then the federal government will start seizing 401K's and Roths/IRA's.

Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:23:23 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
This.

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Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.



This.

Taken to its logical conclusion--be prepared to have the dumbest fuckers that have ever walked this earth working at every booth at the DMV, for the rest of your life.

Umm, yeah, have you been to a DMV lately? Last time I went they could barely speak english and they weren't from another country.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:23:47 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
This.

Taken to its logical conclusion--be prepared to have the dumbest fuckers that have ever walked this earth working at every booth at the DMV, for the rest of your life.
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Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.
This.

Taken to its logical conclusion--be prepared to have the dumbest fuckers that have ever walked this earth working at every booth at the DMV, for the rest of your life.

Wait, it isn't like that already?
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:29:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2014 6:29:23 AM EST by amd_dude]
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Originally Posted By KennyW1983:


Are you kidding? The average govt drone gets paid much better than their non govt counterpart, and thats not even counting the benifits that the govt worker gets.
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Originally Posted By KennyW1983:
Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.





Are you kidding? The average govt drone gets paid much better than their non govt counterpart, and thats not even counting the benifits that the govt worker gets.
In a few places but not most. Outside of the northeast, CA, and IL...

Friend of mine applied for a IT position with the county. They wanted him to take a 12k paycut (50s vs 40s). Most of their jobs pay very low.

LE around here pays 34k to start. Hardly big money.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:30:22 AM EST
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Originally Posted By CplRick:
Public employee unions should be done away with completely.
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Yep, vote buying scheme for the dems.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:31:52 AM EST
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Originally Posted By KennyW1983:


Are you kidding? The average govt drone gets paid much better than their non govt counterpart, and thats not even counting the benifits that the govt worker gets.
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Originally Posted By KennyW1983:
Originally Posted By Koji:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

The government - all of it, including federal, state, and local - should not be providing pensions to anyone.


Then there would be no reason to work at any level of government.

The whole point of government work is the sweet retirement package. Otherwise, you spend your career doing a job with below average pay and benefits compared to the private sector (for most employees). At that point, anyone working for the government would be an IDIOT to waste their life in the public sector.








Are you kidding? The average govt drone gets paid much better than their non govt counterpart, and thats not even counting the benifits that the govt worker gets.


Not here in oklahoma. Position i just looked into with the school district would pay at least twice as much in the private sector. Also, my neighbor makes 65k with his masters degree working for the city. He would be well over 100k if he wanted to go work somewhere else.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:34:15 AM EST
I must be working for a different Fed gov. My 'retirement' consists of TSP (401k) that I put money into and FERS (pension). FERS is calculated by taking 1% of the average salary for the highest 3years and multiplying that by the number of years service. If I work until I'm 70 (!) I will get 20% of my salary as pension.

Benefits? I pay for my life insurance, no long term disability available, and health insurance is so expensive I'm staying on my SO's plan. I left a job making twice as much after 9/11 to come back to active duty, but was too broken to fly. I was offered a civilian position that instead because of the high demand and extreme shortage of certain skills. I took it because, silly me, I'm still a patriot at heart. My choice and I'll live with the consequences in my 'retirement'. All I ask is that you educate yourselves on the facts before you accuse all fed, state, and local workers of living the high life on your dime while providing no benefit to the public. We are not all union thugs sucking at the taxpayer teat while rolling in the dough.

Link Posted: 10/2/2014 6:37:10 AM EST
Sigh....The outrage stems from .gov unions. Don't want pension problems, don't allow .gov unions and don't allow pension funds to be put into general fund projects.

If a state is using pension funds to repair roads and such (general fund) then they need to do what is necessary to make the pension fund whole.

In right to work states most state .gov employees contribute greatly to their retirement fund. Nothing more than a 401K really with a few added protetions.

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