I am searching for a good home defense weapon for my woman. I have tried to teach her to shoot a pistol, many, many times... but, its like she totally forgets how to shoot one. we go shooting, and shes shooting the dirt, between us and the man sized target 40' away.  its crazy. if I keep messing with her, by loading snap caps in the mags, between the loaded rounds, you see shes jerking the trigger REALLY bad.  I work on it, and EVENTUALLY, after like 50 rounds, shes shooting pie plate sized groups on the target..and not jerking the trigger anymore. . but... we go shooting again a week later, and shes shooting dirt again...  ( usually using a g-17, 9mm.... she does a little better with her .22 handgun ).. if shes pissed off or mad, she can usually hit the target first shot, and keep on target though...   I'm not planning to have her ccw.... just working on a solid, reliable, effective home defense gun for her.

ANYWAY... the same girl with a at-15, or any rifle, and aimpoint..... shes dead on.  popping cans, plates, etc.. shes 100% on a long gun. she loves the at-15, I have built a light weight version for her for deer hunting, and its a good fit for her.  the only issue we have with a long gun, is she tires quickly..

I want something that would be a awesome home defense weapon for her.. reasonably light,  high capacity, compact, not insanely loud, cheap to practice with, etc. I'm ruling out the at-15, as I want something compact, ( buffer tube rules this out), plus 5.56mm is too much for a inside the house gun for her... flame away all you want, I'm choosing the 9mm CZ scorpion for her.

the cz scorpion is pretty cheap ( $700.00 approx. ), its small, its compact, its got 30 round mags, its cheap to shoot, and its pretty quiet to shoot.  my plans are to buy one, and put a shockwave brace on it... to use until I can get the sbr paperwork filed and returned.

heres my questions...

1. apparently, to add the factory folding stock, you have to add some 922 compliance parts to it... fine, no problem. I was planning on adding a larger charging handle, and likely a different trigger to it, plus some other stuff...im planning to add a suppressor mount to it, as I'm about o have a .45 octane suppressor.  id like suggestions to meet the requirements.. what trigger? what charging handle? what other parts to meet 922? how many do I need?

I considered other guns... the mp5.. ( too expensive right now ), sig mpx, also expensive....  I looked at the keltec sub2000... but honestly, its got a pretty heavy bolt, and its akward to operate. I doubt she could work it well.... so.. I'm to the cz scorpion..

I plan to buy one... upgrade it, add a shockwave brace, and use it... until sbr paperwork comes back..( what, 12 months or so? ) . then add the factory stock, and sell the brace.

I'm actually planning to buy TWO of these pistols and sbr them... one for her, and one for me.

opinions??    pictures of your guns and setups.... how do your daughter / girlfriends / wives like shooting the scorpion??

this video helped me pick the scorpion...





UPDATE !  

I PUT A CZ SCORPION ON LAYAWAY TODAY !     so, I have one coming my way.. least I beat the election deadline !    ( I might have a second one on layaway by election day... )

gotta keep a eye open for good deals, on  30rd cz mags now.... and braces, etc.



my big box of cz scorpion mags got here last week.... so, I'm all set for mags for a while... 20 mags.. 10 per gun..  I should be set for a little while.

now I need a shitload of that federal 9mm aluminum ammo to practice with...

You're gonna be waiting awhile for that SBR stamp to come back.  A long while.  

Scorpion plus brace or shockwave with a red dot sight sighted for 25yds is what I would do for her.  Maybe even a small flashlight on the rail.  

They are easy to shoot.  My wife loves mine.

With that, check out the Pistol Caliber Carbine forum (Under the Armory section).  75% of the threads there are on the Scorpion.  There's also a 300 page general discussion thread on it.

in before... 9mm sucks, its not enough,  she needs at LEAST a  ar-15.... and teach her to use a pistol, etc, etc.

that's what I was thinking. a small light for bumps in the night...  and a red dot.  she can shoot the crap out of a red dot equipped gun. were have several ar-15 sbr's, and shes really turned off by the muzzle blast.  9mm mags also seem a lot easier to grip, and to insert / remove..


something like the scorpion looks like it would make her a awesome PDW.

I'd do a Inforce WML, a magpul AFG, and a large objective red dot...like an aimpoint.  My wife takes more time lining up smaller ones like the Micro than the larger ones.  

Mag changes are easy with the scorpion.  The mag release is amazing.  She may have shorter hands and fingers though which means her off hand will have to hit the lever and take the mag out.  But 30rds for home defense should be plenty.

I agree... plus that sounds like a good set up, ill look that stuff up.

HBI trigger shoe and spring kit count as compliance parts, and the spring kit is $9 and reduces the trigger pull to roughly five pounds.

I also put Manticore ambi AR style fire selectors on mine.

Go to the PCC  sub section many of your questions are answered there.

I have one and love it.  Mounted with an Obsidian 45.
" />

If she has trouble shooting, especially consistently after improving, the CZ Scorpion is a poor choice - even modified, just my .02

ETA - missed the rifle part of the OP, still a no vote for the CZ, maybe a Marlin Camp 9mm Carbine.

I was going to say get a tavor in 9mm or a fn ps90. But then saw your budget.

I think the cz is a good choice. Maybe consider the micro roni with brace.

Tag. As I have the same exact plans.

Edit: OP have you thought about a tavor x95? OAL will probably be the same. Could suppress tavor in 556 or 9mm.

Anyone know the OAL of SBR evo?

CZ Scorpion is a phenomenal PCC.

If CZ-USA ever gets the 922r parts kit back in, it'll have everything you need to make it 922r compliant, including the "factory" stock, which is a great stock for this gun BTW.
If you can't wait for that, there are stock adapters out there. CZC has one (albeit expensive) and Lage has quite a few options. You could also use the fixed buffer tube adapter that CZ sells.
With any of these options you can run any AR15 stock you want. (Although I like the factory stock on this gun better then the CTR I had on it when I first got my stamp back.)

There are also a number of US made grip options, and CZ now sells mags with US made parts.

Muzzle devices should be a plenty, especially now that the newer models have 1/2-28 threads. Of course it needs to accommodate 9mm, but there are plenty that do.

As far as the CH, it's the only "non stock" type of part I changed, as the original is really the weakest thing on the gun. I went with a Shooters Element one, and it's great.
Otherwise, just used the CZ kit for 922r compliance, but like the all original Czech look.

Buy one. You won't regret it.

Around 26" with the OEM stock out and around 16" folded.
Tavor is not that great suppressed due to it being a bull pup by users who have it.

Stock out but full collapsed correct (ie shortest LOP with stock)?

Yeti Wurks sells up grade stuff for the CZ.

I would wait to see what SBtactical releases towards the end of the year

this will be coming out for both Mp5 and the CZ Scorpion

I have a 3 lug adapter on mine so this is approximate: Just hair over 24 inches with the stock out but the secondary stock expansion closed. As you see in my picture above.

My Scorpion has the HB trigger spring and right side AK style safety.
That factory right side safety has to go.

Aimpoint h2 on top seems like a good way to go.
Most of the time, I leave mine turned way down and use the irons.

I haven't put a scope on mine yet to check for accuracy.
Judging by the 50 yard groups, it should do 2-3"  at 100.

I would probably just rent handguns till she found one she was accurate with. But that just me. Your plan sounds fun.

Is that a stock or brace?

If stock, why that over OEM?

its a brace

The OEM stock is really nice and wouldn't want anything else.

Threw the shockwave and a folder on mine, I'm satisfied with the results.

Sorry bout the shitty pics:

SBR PCC would definitely make a good HD weapon for a relatively untrained person. I use my suppressed MPX SBR with RDO to introduce new shooters since it's so easy to shoot.

Meh, with the price of the Scorpion I'd much rather have the Scorpion.  

Also a tag for interest, mine is still fully stock.  Curious if it can handle +p+ ammo, out of a 7.75" barrel that should be zinging along.  Maybe enough to make the +p+ worth it.

If it feeds them, I would think 147 HST +P would work excellent.

Recoil magazine has two online articles about Scorpion upgrades.  There may be more out than this now, but it covers a lot of parts I did not know about until a couple weeks ago.

http://www.recoilweb.com/cz-scorpion-evo-3-s1-upgrade-buyers-guide-71717.html

http://www.recoilweb.com/cz-scorpion-upgrade-buyers-guide-part-2-79347.html

with folder or folder extra?

I'm looking to put a brace on it, but want foldable.

I want a braced scorpion, but it has to have a folder. No foldy, no wantsy...

that's where I'm at.
The CZ folder is $215

+1

the folding adapter ($200) plus shock wave is ($100) = $300+. Retarded when the SBR OEM folder is $200. Really hope that SB tactical brace includes the folding mechanism for $200 or less.

Lage manufacturing has a right side folding adapter for AR-15 buffer tubes with a 5 degree cant for $152.

That is what I bought for using with my shockwave.

The stock safety sucks sucks.  That needs replaced.

Upgrade the trigger.  That'll help.  The factory trigger isn't exactly a Geisseleand it would hopefully help with the jerking.

I normally hate AFGs, but they feel right on the Scorpion.

Did they go up? Pretty sure I got my blade and matching tube for like $55 shipped

I have a SB on mine and I like it. I don't intend to SBR it as I live on the boarder between 2 states an I like that it can travel with me without any special paperwork. I also have a SB collapsable brace on order for my MPX, same idea.

Safety delete
HBI trigger springs (don't have them yet)
HBI Mp5 mag release
manticore A3 stock
HBI K foreend when it's released

Careful, if the trigger shoe doesn't replace the trigger itself it's actually not 922r compliant. I also don't see any springs in the ATF diagram so I'm not sure that replacement would count either.

EDIT: from the website it looks like it's not a shoe, rather a trigger replacement, if it replaces the stock oem trigger then I believe it would count.

Remember it's not about replacing ANY parts on the stock firearm that gets you 922r complaint, it must be parts listed on the diagram from the ATF. And it's not about replacing as much as removing the number of foreign made parts.

The ATF released the diagram of parts that could be removed/replaced towards 922r compliance.
1. Reciever
2. Barrel
3. Mounting block
4. muzzle attachment
5. bolt
6. trigger housing
7. trigger
8. hammer
9. sear
10. disconnector
11. buttstock
12. pistol grip
13. forearm/handguard
14. magazine body
15. follower
16. floor plate

You need to bring this number down to 10.
2 of the above listed are in the magazine and easily replaced. So you need to find another 4 to remove/replace. The muzzle brake can be removed without replacement and that brings you down to 3 more parts to figure out to remove or replace.

Also remember the oem stock is not made in the US and is therefore not considered a 922r compliant part, hence why there is technically 7 parts including the stock in the 922r kit.

thanks ! this is a really helpful post !

How high are the sights from the rail? Do you think a 12 o'clock XC-1 could sneak under them?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

My wife likes mine so much she's basically taken it, and I need to buy another for myself.

That left target guy must be a zombie....

I like mine with the octane 45 using griffin tri-lug and manticore arms muzzle device.

I replaced the RMR with a primary arms micro dot though.

Great looking

Why not just get an endo tactical Glock adapter with shockwave brace to use while waiting on stamp? Have to say I'm pretty impressed with that set up.

SBR'd Glock+ ENDO + ALG 6 Second?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Not 100% sure but the folder looks to be built in

that's a nice looking gun !!


why did you take the RMR off??  I didn't know the RMR exhisted... it looks like a awesome optic for the scorpion... damn sure considering getting one of those now.

Scorpion SBR is an awesome easily concealed PDW. We carry ours in a back pack everywhere we go. Easily and quickly deployed if needed.

I put a CZ scorpion on layaway today !    so, I'm on the road to having at LEAST one of these little devils !

I also bought a super awesome 1942 manufacture. Remington 1903 today.... for $250.00 !   I bought a rifle from a guy  ( my buddy) who the LGS offered $250 to him to trade in his 1903.. I snagged it... its in REALLY great shape !