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Posted: 11/2/2009 6:13:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 6:13:56 AM EST by winddummy82]
FREE MARKET COMMUNIST CHINA STYLE:(

this is the kind of shit that drives me up a wall. but americans still support communist china and buy all the cheap crap they can get their hands on.
so whats you opinion now about chinas place / ethics in the "free market"?

in before dave_a says it only rifle scopes that should be made overseas anyway!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:19:57 AM EST
Eh.

I think if they are making counterfeits and Leupold (or Trijicon, facogs anyone, etc) can't get a lawsuit won (or started) then CN is obviously in violation of a few international agreements/laws/treaties and imports should be stopped.

You could also buy from reputable dealers and not have this problem. YMMV.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:21:38 AM EST
China is a global pirate, period. Windows 7 already for sale in markets for like $5.

I would love to buy USA, but just a walk through Lowes and everything - or near it - was made in China

It's a sad thing, truly.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:22:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By allenNH:
Eh.

I think if they are making counterfeits and Leupold (or Trijicon, facogs anyone, etc) can't get a lawsuit won (or started) then CN is obviously in violation of a few international agreements/laws/treaties and imports should be stopped.

You could also buy from reputable dealers and not have this problem. YMMV.


Suing China would just be a black hole of legal fees IMO, which is why they get away with it.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:23:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 6:23:36 AM EST by LawyersGunsMoney]
Suffice to say Caveat Emptor!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:24:32 AM EST
you miss the point. this kind of thing is rampant in communist china. court case you ask.... what business name is the counterfeiter using this week? then go to communist china and find them?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:27:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
China is a global pirate, period. Windows 7 already for sale in markets for like $5.

I would love to buy USA, but just a walk through Lowes and everything - or near it - was made in China

It's a sad thing, truly.

I have not bought anything made in China from Lowes or Home Depot during my recent home repair project.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:30:00 AM EST
If you buy Leupold scopes off ebay you're begging for a fucking.


This is why manufacturers establish Authorized Retailers and MAP.
Then y'all bitch you can't get a good deal that way...
and you take your cheap asses shopping in the gray market.

You willingly accept the risk inherent in purchasing outside the manufacturer's network of dealers to save a few bucks.
Sometimes saving a few bucks means getting fucked in the process. This is nothing new.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:31:17 AM EST
But at least they weren't made by union Obama loving communist scum

The were made by old school America hating communist scum
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:33:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 6:34:41 AM EST by Danner130]
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery

OK, OK, Leupy needs to get US Customs on this ASAP.

ETA: Remember, China is the only country still producing quality rubber dog crap.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:36:45 AM EST
like this one...It has to be a scam of course it is onCraigslist

Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x40e, 3.5-10x50e 150.00

A MKIV for 150.00?

Notice that the guy say's "Scope that are on the way "...Just send the guy a USPO MO and you will
have your nice new Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x40e on the way..
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:45:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:
If you buy Leupold scopes off ebay you're begging for a fucking.


This is why manufacturers establish Authorized Retailers and MAP.
Then y'all bitch you can't get a good deal that way...
and you take your cheap asses shopping in the gray market.

You willingly accept the risk inherent in purchasing outside the manufacturer's network of dealers to save a few bucks.
Sometimes saving a few bucks means getting fucked in the process. This is nothing new.


good thing our founding fathers didn't have your mind set.

the point is to raise awareness about communist chinas business practices. don't go after the scam artists.... just laugh at the idiots buying their products!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:47:21 AM EST
Egypt and India are also blantant thieves.

A teacher from my old college was Egyptian and he said he could get medicine, computers, software, and study materials from back home for pennies on the dollar because they copy it.

A programmer from India I used to work with said the same thing about his home.

Fucking thieves.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:01:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By winddummy82:
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:
If you buy Leupold scopes off ebay you're begging for a fucking.


This is why manufacturers establish Authorized Retailers and MAP.
Then y'all bitch you can't get a good deal that way...
and you take your cheap asses shopping in the gray market.

You willingly accept the risk inherent in purchasing outside the manufacturer's network of dealers to save a few bucks.
Sometimes saving a few bucks means getting fucked in the process. This is nothing new.


good thing our founding fathers didn't have your mind set.

the point is to raise awareness about communist chinas business practices. don't go after the scam artists.... just laugh at the idiots buying their products!


If people weren't lined up around the block to buy the knock-offs, the Chinese wouldn't be making them.



Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:12:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:
If you buy Leupold scopes off ebay you're begging for a fucking.


This is why manufacturers establish Authorized Retailers and MAP.
Then y'all bitch you can't get a good deal that way...
and you take your cheap asses shopping in the gray market.

You willingly accept the risk inherent in purchasing outside the manufacturer's network of dealers to save a few bucks.
Sometimes saving a few bucks means getting fucked in the process. This is nothing new.


This

I work in Supplier Quality management and we will only buy from a franchised dealer or the manufacturer because of the rampant chinese counterfeiting. If it looks to goo to be true it usually is.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:14:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Originally Posted By allenNH:
Eh.

I think if they are making counterfeits and Leupold (or Trijicon, facogs anyone, etc) can't get a lawsuit won (or started) then CN is obviously in violation of a few international agreements/laws/treaties and imports should be stopped.

You could also buy from reputable dealers and not have this problem. YMMV.


Suing China would just be a black hole of legal fees IMO, which is why they get away with it.


That's why the second option is there for all buyers.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:14:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By winddummy82:
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:
If you buy Leupold scopes off ebay you're begging for a fucking.


This is why manufacturers establish Authorized Retailers and MAP.
Then y'all bitch you can't get a good deal that way...
and you take your cheap asses shopping in the gray market.

You willingly accept the risk inherent in purchasing outside the manufacturer's network of dealers to save a few bucks.
Sometimes saving a few bucks means getting fucked in the process. This is nothing new.


good thing our founding fathers didn't have your mind set.

the point is to raise awareness about communist chinas business practices. don't go after the scam artists.... just laugh at the idiots buying their products!
Guess what... The world isn't fair and will never be... I would love for there to be no crime/war and peace throughout the world, but it isn't happening... If you get an e-mail from the prince of nigeria saying you inherited 10 million dollars and all you they ask in return is that you help them with some situation by sending them money, are you going to fall for it? As these scams are illegal there is not much you can do besides not be a complete idiot. Guess what? I have never had any problems as far as getting cheap chinese knockoffs... You know why? Because I buy from someone reputable. It isn't difficult to find reviews on different companies. It is called being a smart shopper. As long as there are gullible consumers, it doesn't matter what country they are from, there will ALWAYS be counterfeiters. ALWAYS.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:54:55 AM EST
OK. This thread officially pisses me off.

Pirating products is NOT within a legitimate "free market system". Your thread title is total bullshit.

I want a free market. A free market protects intellectual property rights. That China doesn't do a good job of this is not an indictment on a free market system or concept. It is an indictment on both Chinese manufacturers and people who buy copies (you know who you are).

And yeah, to all of you who look for the lowest price all the time and end up with copy crap - boo hoo. They copy everything now. Gibson guitars? You bet. Movies? Pharmaceuticals? scopes? Golf Clubs?

If you buy this knock off crap you are part of the problem.

I live 6 months a year in Thailand and have seen lots of stuff on sale. Copy Levi's, or any other designer that happens to be hot. Rolex or any other swiss watch. I don't buy anything copy. Don't be part of the problem.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:58:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By GUNSFORHIRE:
like this one...It has to be a scam of course it is onCraigslist

Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x40e, 3.5-10x50e 150.00

A MKIV for 150.00?

Notice that the guy say's "Scope that are on the way "...Just send the guy a USPO MO and you will
have your nice new Leupold Mark 4 3.5-10x40e on the way..

Turn him in to Leopold. They can atleast go after the scumbag distributors.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:01:41 AM EST
hmm...I can't find these counterfeit Leupolds at all! Looked on Ebay, the cheapest Mk 4 on there is 550.00 or so.


anyone have a link to a fake?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:58:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By FLaviator:
hmm...I can't find these counterfeit Leupolds at all! Looked on Ebay, the cheapest Mk 4 on there is 550.00 or so.


anyone have a link to a fake?


They ARE fake

Joking - I have no idea
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:04:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:
If you buy Leupold scopes off ebay you're begging for a fucking.


This is why manufacturers establish Authorized Retailers and MAP.
Then y'all bitch you can't get a good deal that way...
and you take your cheap asses shopping in the gray market.

You willingly accept the risk inherent in purchasing outside the manufacturer's network of dealers to save a few bucks.
Sometimes saving a few bucks means getting fucked in the process. This is nothing new.


truer words never spoken
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:22:07 AM EST
For what those things sell for does anyone believe they are getting the real thing?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:27:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By beltfed74:
For what those things sell for does anyone believe they are getting the real thing?


Go ask the guys that buy $200 ACOGs at the gunshow from the airsoft booth.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:28:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
China is a global pirate, period. Windows 7 already for sale in markets for like $5.

I would love to buy USA, but just a walk through Lowes and everything - or near it - was made in China

It's a sad thing, truly.

I have not bought anything made in China from Lowes or Home Depot during my recent home repair project.



wanna bet
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:33:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:35:39 AM EST
I believe Clinton signed a favored trade Nation Pact with China in return for them financing Govt. debt. That is how we got to where we are today as I understand it.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:35:59 AM EST
Leupold did sue in China, and lost.

Of course of government does not give a rat's ass.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:38:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:
If you buy Leupold scopes off ebay you're begging for a fucking.


This is why manufacturers establish Authorized Retailers and MAP.
Then y'all bitch you can't get a good deal that way...
and you take your cheap asses shopping in the gray market.

You willingly accept the risk inherent in purchasing outside the manufacturer's network of dealers to save a few bucks.
Sometimes saving a few bucks means getting fucked in the process. This is nothing new.


This

I work in Supplier Quality management and we will only buy from a franchised dealer or the manufacturer because of the rampant chinese counterfeiting. If it looks to goo to be true it usually is.



Yup. We've come across batches of counterfit parts (electronics).
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:43:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
China is a global pirate, period. Windows 7 already for sale in markets for like $5.

I would love to buy USA, but just a walk through Lowes and everything - or near it - was made in China

It's a sad thing, truly.


Yes... yes they are.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:43:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:


you calling me a troll?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:46:22 AM EST
Making cheap copies that resemble Leupold scopes is not so bad if truthfully marketed.
The real crime here is the deception and theft of the trademark.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:46:46 AM EST
China Sues Google for Copyright Infringement

http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/21/chinese-writer-google-markets-copyrights.html

A Copyright Complaint From China
Vivian Wai-yin Kwok, 10.21.09, 05:43 AM EDT
Chinese writers are planning group action aginst Google for digitizing their books without paying them.



HONG KONG –– A Chinese writers' society accused Google of infringing on the copyrights of at least 570 Chinese authors by scanning and uploading their books into Google's digital library without seeking consent. The society is soliciting all Chinese writers to voice their opposition before a U.S. court finalizes a settlement at a hearing scheduled for Nov 9.

In a notice posted on chinawriter.com.cn, the China Written Works Copyright Society (CWWCS), advised Chinese writers to search for their own writings on the Google eBooks Web site and to be prepared to take further action to protect their legal rights.

Infuriated by Google's apparent copyright infringement, the copyright society pledged it would fight on behalf of individual authors in potential legal action. Zhang Hongbo, deputy director-general of the CWWCS, said the National Copyright Administration and other Chinese authorities should push the U.S. government to handle the issue properly, China Daily reported Wednesday.

According to the figures from the society, nearly 18,000 books from 570 Chinese writers have been scanned and included in Google's eBooks archive. So far, Google has not informed or paid most of these Chinese writers, China Daily added.

This was the first time Chinese writers joined Western authors in a movement against Google's abuse of their rights.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said earlier this month that copyrights have to be protected both in the real world and on the Internet. Before the opening of Frankfurt Book Fair, Merkel appealed for more international cooperation on copyright protection and said her government opposed Google's plan to scan entire libraries.

Merkel's speech followed action by French publishing house La Martiniere, the French Publishers Association and authors' group SGDL, which brought Google to a Paris court in September for 15 million euros ($22.4 million) in claims and a daily fine of 100,000 euros ($150,000) if Google did not stop digitizing their books.

Google kicked off its Google Library program to scan massive numbers of books across the world into its virtual library. Since then, the search portal has digitized approximately 10 million books.

The Authors Guild, which represents 8,000 American authors, filed a class action suit in September 2005 in federal court against Google for its unauthorized scanning and copying. To settle the court case with the Authors Guild, Google proposed to pay $125 million to create a Book Rights Registry for authors and publishers to register their works so they can get paid if their books are put online by Google.

Under the tentative settlement drafted by Google, it would pay authors at least $60 per book digitized on or before May 5, 2009 as compensation. Authors could also share 63% of Google's income deriving from readers who pay for online reading. To receive a cash payment, authors must fill in the claim form on or before Jan. 5, 2010.

Any author who is not satisfied with Google's settlement has to file a counterproposal or change to a court in New York by Nov. 9. If the settlement passes next month, the terms would also apply to writers outside the U.S.

Zhang and some other Chinese writers and bloggers are shocked by such an arrangement. "It doesn't make sense for them to set a deadline for Chinese writers to protect their interests," China Daily quoted Zhang as saying.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:51:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By winddummy82:
FREE MARKET COMMUNIST CHINA STYLE:(

this is the kind of shit that drives me up a wall. but americans still support communist china and buy all the cheap crap they can get their hands on.
so whats you opinion now about chinas place / ethics in the "free market"?

in before dave_a says it only rifle scopes that should be made overseas anyway!



Cheap products based on de facto slave labor have NOTHING to do with the free market. China is not a free market participant by any stretch of the imagination. Their competitive edge is based on government subsidies, currency manipulation, and a labor market in a state of forced servitude. Any claim or argument that tries to relate the China problem to the free market is invalid at the moment of conception.





Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:13:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By FLaviator:
hmm...I can't find these counterfeit Leupolds at all! Looked on Ebay, the cheapest Mk 4 on there is 550.00 or so.


anyone have a link to a fake?

Here is a fake Mark 4:

http://cgi.ebay.com/leupold-mark-4-12x40E-m4-riflescope_W0QQitemZ260496083768QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca6c6cb38

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:20:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By woodsie:
Originally Posted By winddummy82:
FREE MARKET COMMUNIST CHINA STYLE:(

this is the kind of shit that drives me up a wall. but americans still support communist china and buy all the cheap crap they can get their hands on.
so whats you opinion now about chinas place / ethics in the "free market"?

in before dave_a says it only rifle scopes that should be made overseas anyway!



Cheap products based on de facto slave labor have NOTHING to do with the free market. China is not a free market participant by any stretch of the imagination. Their competitive edge is based on government subsidies, currency manipulation, and a labor market in a state of forced servitude. Any claim or argument that tries to relate the China problem to the free market is invalid at the moment of conception.







manufacturing scopes in china and putting LEUPOLD on them... is called COUNTERFEITING... not slave labor!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:22:06 AM EST
Doesn't this all say something about..............

the Chinese mentality and............

American Greed?

Aloha, Mark


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:24:27 AM EST
The guy on the dock, paying for the container full of shit is the profiteer.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:24:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By ma96782:
Doesn't this all say something about..............

the Chinese mentality and............

American Greed?

Aloha, Mark




sure does. thats why i would like americans to send a message to communist china. THE WAY TO SEND THAT MESSAGE... QUIT BUYING MADE IN COMMUNIST CHINA CRAP! VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET!!!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:26:22 AM EST
The US does not have a free market economy, and so anything that happens here can't be blamed on free markets, including people buying cheap Chinese knockoffs instead of artificially inflated union made American taxed and choked products.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:31:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By winddummy82:
Originally Posted By woodsie:
Originally Posted By winddummy82:
FREE MARKET COMMUNIST CHINA STYLE:(

this is the kind of shit that drives me up a wall. but americans still support communist china and buy all the cheap crap they can get their hands on.
so whats you opinion now about chinas place / ethics in the "free market"?

in before dave_a says it only rifle scopes that should be made overseas anyway!



Cheap products based on de facto slave labor have NOTHING to do with the free market. China is not a free market participant by any stretch of the imagination. Their competitive edge is based on government subsidies, currency manipulation, and a labor market in a state of forced servitude. Any claim or argument that tries to relate the China problem to the free market is invalid at the moment of conception.







manufacturing scopes in china and putting LEUPOLD on them... is called COUNTERFEITING... not slave labor!


Which is not something that is a part of free market capitalism.

Why don't you just admit that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:32:21 AM EST
tag
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:32:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By winddummy82:
Originally Posted By ma96782:
Doesn't this all say something about..............

the Chinese mentality and............

American Greed?

Aloha, Mark




sure does. thats why i would like americans to send a message to communist china. THE WAY TO SEND THAT MESSAGE... QUIT BUYING MADE IN COMMUNIST CHINA CRAP! VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET!!!


impossible
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:33:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By Hedonist:
The guy on the dock, paying for the container full of shit is the profiteer.


A reputable Chinese company shouldn't produce a counterfeit product in the first place.

And in the second place......

A US importer (probably an American) knows that he/she is buying a counterfeit product to be sold as a genuine item, thus making a large profit.

IMHO.............both people..........should be "shot" (then, maybe counterfeiters and sellers, will get the message).

Aloha, Mark




Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:36:47 AM EST
Your reap what you sow. You preach a profit-driven free market economy. Thus corporations look only at the bottom line. They have no responsibility to the American people, only their shareholders. If it's cheaper to make in China to make a greater margins reselling in the US, why the hell not?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:38:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hmanjr:
Egypt and India are also blatant thieves.

A teacher from my old college was Egyptian and he said he could get medicine, computers, software, and study materials from back home for pennies on the dollar because they copy it.

A programmer from India I used to work with said the same thing about his home.

Fucking thieves.

Add the Iraqis to your list of blatant thieves. I remember when my brother in law was stationed in Musol. He said you could find anything you wanted. Coach and Louis Vattan bags, Rolex Watches, DVDs, anything.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:40:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 10:43:38 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By winddummy82:
FREE MARKET COMMUNIST CHINA STYLE:(

this is the kind of shit that drives me up a wall. but americans still support communist china and buy all the cheap crap they can get their hands on.
so whats you opinion now about chinas place / ethics in the "free market"?

in before dave_a says it only rifle scopes that should be made overseas anyway!

No...

Dave_A says 'buyer beware', and points out that legit Leupold products, regardless of where they are made (and IIRC, it's no longer just 'in the USA') seem to do just fine on the open market without trade subsidies or protection - so making them here is just fine...

I have a problem with forcing companies to make things in the US, and creating 'welfare jobs' with tariffs...

NOT with companies who can make a profit in the US without the above sort of government BS....

So while I will almost always buy 'made in China' legitimate products (eg tools)... If I wanted a high-end rifle scope, I know enough NOT to buy from the guy on E-bay who is advertising them for 10% of retail....
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:41:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 10:42:03 AM EST by WildApple]
Originally Posted By MKb42:
Your reap what you sow. You preach a profit-driven free market economy. Thus corporations look only at the bottom line. They have no responsibility to the American people, only their shareholders. If it's cheaper to make in China to make a greater margins reselling in the US, why the hell not?


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:44:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By MKb42:
Your reap what you sow. You preach a profit-driven free market economy. Thus corporations look only at the bottom line. They have no responsibility to the American people, only their shareholders. If it's cheaper to make in China to make a greater margins reselling in the US, why the hell not?

If Leupold *COULD* get the quality they want out of China, they probably would...

That said, they can't...

The Chinese, however, seem to realize that they can sell a good number of fakes to folks who think a $100 version of a $1000 scope is a 'good deal'....
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:45:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By KB7:
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
China is a global pirate, period. Windows 7 already for sale in markets for like $5.

I would love to buy USA, but just a walk through Lowes and everything - or near it - was made in China

It's a sad thing, truly.

I have not bought anything made in China from Lowes or Home Depot during my recent home repair project.



wanna bet

Drywall, lumber, roofing materials, paint, drywall mud, tape, plastic roof cement, portland cement, lime were all made in USA. Even the window screening was domestic.

How much do you want to lose?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:45:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 10:46:57 AM EST by Stlrain0341]
Originally Posted By MKb42:
Your reap what you sow. You preach a profit-driven free market economy. Thus corporations look only at the bottom line. They have no responsibility to the American people, only their shareholders. If it's cheaper to make in China to make a greater margins reselling in the US, why the hell not?


1. Its not American corporations doing it, its foreign ones.

2. If it was an American corporation, guess who most of the shareholders would be? Oh, thats right, Americans.

3. If it was Leupold doing it I would have no problem, but thats not the case.
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