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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 2/2/2006 7:47:37 PM EDT
By what "right" does a country claim borders and tax\regulate its "residents"?

How does a country derive the ability to draw a line on a map and lay claim to land?

The supporters of illegals keep saying things like "a human being cannot be illegal"

Do we or any other country have valid claim to land, borders, laws and\or customs?

Or are we drawing arbitrary lines on a map in order to unfairly penalize poorer locales?
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:48:29 PM EDT
You claim it be force, and keep it by the same.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:18:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:
You claim it be force, and keep it by the same.



Then a violation of our soevereignty WOULD actually be more than an excursion over an imaginary line?
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:20:38 PM EDT
Well, the imaginary line in Bush's mind seems to stop just south of the canadian border.............
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:20:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 8:22:45 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
By the Consent of the Governed.


A long time ago, a bunch of people came together and formed a government. They all agreed to live by it's rules.

The "lines" were drawn in many ways - purchases, conquests, discovery.


By your parents living here, you were born here and have a Right to claim citizenship. Now if you don't agree with the rules, leave.


If enough of the Governed don't agree with the rules, change them, or overthrow the government. Read the Constitution - it's in there.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:21:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 8:22:35 PM EDT by 1Andy2]
Theoretically, our government has the right to tax its citizens only by consent of the governed.

eta: Theoretically, mind you.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:22:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 8:26:18 PM EDT by 22bad]

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
By the Consent of the Governed.



Not exactly sure what you are saying

but, I would point out that there have been dictators that didn't allow "consent" or "leaving"
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:25:03 PM EDT
Maybe I didn't define the debate well enough

why do we have a "right" to be here instead of the Indians or any other peoples like the europeans?
(now, fast forward to the current illegal alien situation and the border incursions by mexican military)
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:29:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Maybe I didn't define the debate well enough

why do we have a "right" to be here instead of the Indians or any other peoples like the europeans?
(now, fast forward to the current illegal alien situation and the border incursions by mexican military)



Did we have a right to remove the indians? No. Not going to argue with you on that one.

Did we hose Mexico? Yeah, somewhat. Although they were being dickheads to Texas first on that one. Wouldn't recognize their own treaty recognizing Texas independence.


Does any of that justify Mexico dumping all its poor and unwanted citizens on us? No way in hell.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:32:44 PM EDT
I always thought that a Military had to insure the security of a country's border, and that
the government derived its taxing authority from the implied securing of said border
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:35:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I always thought that a Military had to insure the security of a country's border, and that
the government derived its taxing authority from the implied securing of said border



Thats the great thing about this country.

You don't have to guess what the government may do or from where it gets the authority to do it.

Theoretically anyways.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:35:49 PM EDT
The lines were drawn a long time ago. That has nothing to do with the present-day border sneaks, they are an issue about political will.

National military power keeps them there, to the extent the politicians have a spine.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:19:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Maybe I didn't define the debate well enough

why do we have a "right" to be here instead of the Indians or any other peoples like the europeans?
(now, fast forward to the current illegal alien situation and the border incursions by mexican military)




Might makes right. Always been that way, prolly always will be.

Thats all you need to know.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:23:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BillofRights:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Maybe I didn't define the debate well enough

why do we have a "right" to be here instead of the Indians or any other peoples like the europeans?
(now, fast forward to the current illegal alien situation and the border incursions by mexican military)




Might makes right. Always been that way, prolly always will be.

Thats all you need to know.



Many of the answers here seem to be indicating that I believe the borders should be abandoned

That would be a totally incorrect conclusion, I am merely asking if anyone can state it better than me

"Just because" is not a very convincing argument
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:28:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Maybe I didn't define the debate well enough

why do we have a "right" to be here instead of the Indians or any other peoples like the europeans?
(now, fast forward to the current illegal alien situation and the border incursions by mexican military)



We acquired the land either by conquest, treaty, or purchase.

That gives us the 'right'.

Same as every other country in the world.

Only problem is most other countries don't think the same rules should apply to the mean bully called the US.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:32:03 PM EDT
borders=might and strength

taxes=consent.....voluntary.....jail.
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