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Posted: 8/11/2011 9:01:13 PM EDT
So, I'm a WA resident that has just moved to AZ. Thinking that since I could buy long guns while down here I ordered my AR receiver before I changed my residency. Turns out that I can buy a rifle but not a rifle receiver. WTF is that about? It's not a big deal I guess, I think I'll have time to go and get my license switched over tomorrow. Still a bummer since it was that last part I needed.

I really am starting to dislike the ATF lately...

D
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 9:03:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2011 9:04:02 PM EDT by Barrelburner]
You can buy long guns out of state.

A receiver is not a long gun. It is an 'other'.

Same as 18-20 year olds not being able to buy stripped receivers.
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 9:06:39 PM EDT
I have dual residency (I own houses in two different states). I have been able to buy a lower as long as it has a stock!
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 9:11:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paps-Zapf:
I have dual residency (I own houses in two different states). I have been able to buy a lower as long as it has a stock!

If you truly do have dual residency, you can buy handguns and stripped lowers too in both states of your residencies.
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 9:12:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paps-Zapf:
I have dual residency (I own houses in two different states). I have been able to buy a lower as long as it has a stock!

Yes, purchasing a complete lower should be fine I would think. Since it has a stock, it's a rifle.
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 9:15:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:

Originally Posted By Paps-Zapf:
I have dual residency (I own houses in two different states). I have been able to buy a lower as long as it has a stock!

If you truly do have dual residency, you can buy handguns and stripped lowers too in both states of your residencies.


Assuming the FFL is comfortable with the transaction! Most are not! Since I cannot have a drivers license in both states that does not work so well!
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 9:32:09 PM EDT
All that's necessary are some utility bills, some identification (to match your name), and possibly proof you live in the state as your home (i.e. not a vacation home).
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 9:38:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paps-Zapf:
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:

Originally Posted By Paps-Zapf:
I have dual residency (I own houses in two different states). I have been able to buy a lower as long as it has a stock!

If you truly do have dual residency, you can buy handguns and stripped lowers too in both states of your residencies.


Assuming the FFL is comfortable with the transaction! Most are not! Since I cannot have a drivers license in both states that does not work so well!


You should use more exclamation marks.
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 9:44:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2011 9:45:05 PM EDT by Gamma762]
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By Paps-Zapf:
I have dual residency (I own houses in two different states). I have been able to buy a lower as long as it has a stock!

Yes, purchasing a complete lower should be fine I would think. Since it has a stock, it's a rifle.

No, it's a receiver, same as if it didn't have a stock or buffer tube or anything else.

As for the OP, as long as you can establish residency in the state you should be able to transfer your receiver.
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 9:50:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2011 9:50:40 PM EDT by ssgsnake]
Originally Posted By NationalUXO:
So, I'm a WA resident that has just moved to AZ. Thinking that since I could buy long guns while down here I ordered my AR receiver before I changed my residency. Turns out that I can buy a rifle but not a rifle receiver. WTF is that about? It's not a big deal I guess, I think I'll have time to go and get my license switched over tomorrow. Still a bummer since it was that last part I needed.

I really am starting to dislike the ATF lately...

D


ATF changed the rules about 2 years ago on receivers, because they could be made into a pistol.

1) An FFL may not sell a frame or receiver to anyone under 21 years of age [Title 18, U.S.C., section 922 (b)(1)]. Comment: This is because the receiver could, potentially, be made into a pistol.

2) An FFL may not transfer a frame or receiver to an unlicensed person from another State. [Title 18, U.S.C. section 922(b)(3)]. Comment: Again, this tracks the rules regarding transfers of pistols, because some frames/receivers can be built into pistols.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/07/atf-letter-clarifies-rules-on-firearm-receiver-transfers/
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 10:54:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ssgsnake:
ATF changed the rules about 2 years ago on receivers, because they could be made into a pistol.

Dammit will this myth ever go away....
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 10:57:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By ssgsnake:
ATF changed the rules about 2 years ago on receivers, because they could be made into a pistol.

Dammit will this myth ever go away....


Nope, no matter how many times people correct that BS it keeps coming back...

Same with the "if the lower has a stock it is a rifle".

Link Posted: 8/11/2011 11:06:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By ssgsnake:
ATF changed the rules about 2 years ago on receivers, because they could be made into a pistol.

Dammit will this myth ever go away....


i hate the atf more and more since it is illegal to make a pistol out of a stripped ar lower unless it is marked pistol. also regarding the ar platform someone could buy a complete rifle and then turn it into whatever they wanted (assuming they had the money and didnt care about laws). here again another arbitrary rule regarding age is 18-20 year olds cant purchase a pistol however they can legally have one in their possession. such as their parents giving them one as a gift. also the same age group cannot buy pistol caliber ammunition unless they state to the cashier that it is for a rifle. the bass pro shop here in shreveport even has a sign right next to the register stating this. so simply say its for a rifle, purchase the ammo, go on with life. its one thing to have laws, i understand this. but to have so many regulations that contradict each other its a wonder that even the atf can keep them strait. o wait i forgot that sending guns to mexico was supposed to fight crime. what planet do these people live on?
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 11:17:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By F_Double_O:

i hate the atf more and more since it is illegal to make a pistol out of a stripped ar lower unless it is marked pistol.


Where is my "not sure if serious" gif...

Link Posted: 8/12/2011 12:07:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Barrelburner:
You can buy long guns out of state.

A receiver is not a long gun. It is an 'other'.

Same as 18-20 year olds not being able to buy stripped receivers.

Even complete lowers with a stock, for that matter.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 12:10:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ssgsnake:
Originally Posted By NationalUXO:
So, I'm a WA resident that has just moved to AZ. Thinking that since I could buy long guns while down here I ordered my AR receiver before I changed my residency. Turns out that I can buy a rifle but not a rifle receiver. WTF is that about? It's not a big deal I guess, I think I'll have time to go and get my license switched over tomorrow. Still a bummer since it was that last part I needed.

I really am starting to dislike the ATF lately...

D


ATF changed the rules about 2 years ago on receivers, because they could be made into a pistol.

1) An FFL may not sell a frame or receiver to anyone under 21 years of age [Title 18, U.S.C., section 922 (b)(1)]. Comment: This is because the receiver could, potentially, be made into a pistol.

2) An FFL may not transfer a frame or receiver to an unlicensed person from another State. [Title 18, U.S.C. section 922(b)(3)]. Comment: Again, this tracks the rules regarding transfers of pistols, because some frames/receivers can be built into pistols.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/07/atf-letter-clarifies-rules-on-firearm-receiver-transfers/

They actually never, "changed" anything. This is the way it's been for a while, they just started enforcing it.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 12:10:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 12:13:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By uafgrad:
Originally Posted By F_Double_O:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By ssgsnake:
ATF changed the rules about 2 years ago on receivers, because they could be made into a pistol.

Dammit will this myth ever go away....


i hate the atf more and more since it is illegal to make a pistol out of a stripped ar lower unless it is marked pistol. also regarding the ar platform someone could buy a complete rifle and then turn it into whatever they wanted (assuming they had the money and didnt care about laws). here again another arbitrary rule regarding age is 18-20 year olds cant purchase a pistol however they can legally have one in their possession. such as their parents giving them one as a gift. also the same age group cannot buy pistol caliber ammunition unless they state to the cashier that it is for a rifle. the bass pro shop here in shreveport even has a sign right next to the register stating this. so simply say its for a rifle, purchase the ammo, go on with life. its one thing to have laws, i understand this. but to have so many regulations that contradict each other its a wonder that even the atf can keep them strait. o wait i forgot that sending guns to mexico was supposed to fight crime. what planet do these people live on?


Can you point me to somewhere official that says this?

The next AR-15 I build, it's going to be a rifle on a Pistol Only lower. Just to make everyone's brain explode
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 12:15:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By ssgsnake:
ATF changed the rules about 2 years ago on receivers, because they could be made into a pistol.

Dammit will this myth ever go away....


I don't claim to understand all of the ATF regs, but the compliance representative doing our FFL inspections
for the last 2 years said just that. When we questioned why we suddenly could not transfer lower receivers
to out of state residents, he said "because they could be made into pistols". Please explain in detail where I am
wrong in this assumption.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 12:30:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ssgsnake:
I don't claim to understand all of the ATF regs, but the compliance representative doing our FFL inspections
for the last 2 years said just that. When we questioned why we suddenly could not transfer lower receivers
to out of state residents, he said "because they could be made into pistols". Please explain in detail where I am
wrong in this assumption.


The GCA of '68:

It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph

(A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

(B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;


Let me restructure that paragraph for clarity:

It shall be unlawful for any...licensed dealer...to sell or deliver...any firearm who the licensee knows...does not reside in...the state in which the licensee's place of business is located...this paragraph shall not apply to the sale...of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a state other than a state in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meet in person with the transferor...

Pistol has nothing to do with it...Rifle/shotgun is the exception.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 1:44:20 AM EDT
A "rifle" requires a stock and a barrel.

Kharn
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 2:04:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kharn:
A "rifle" requires a stock and a barrel.

Kharn


As do handguns and shotguns.
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 2:19:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By uafgrad:
Originally Posted By F_Double_O:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By ssgsnake:
ATF changed the rules about 2 years ago on receivers, because they could be made into a pistol.

Dammit will this myth ever go away....


i hate the atf more and more since it is illegal to make a pistol out of a stripped ar lower unless it is marked pistol. also regarding the ar platform someone could buy a complete rifle and then turn it into whatever they wanted (assuming they had the money and didnt care about laws). here again another arbitrary rule regarding age is 18-20 year olds cant purchase a pistol however they can legally have one in their possession. such as their parents giving them one as a gift. also the same age group cannot buy pistol caliber ammunition unless they state to the cashier that it is for a rifle. the bass pro shop here in shreveport even has a sign right next to the register stating this. so simply say its for a rifle, purchase the ammo, go on with life. its one thing to have laws, i understand this. but to have so many regulations that contradict each other its a wonder that even the atf can keep them strait. o wait i forgot that sending guns to mexico was supposed to fight crime. what planet do these people live on?


Can you point me to somewhere official that says this?


I think you're correct on everything except in red. I was told one could buy a lower marked physically on the side as "rifle" and build it into a pistol as long as the lower had never been assembled before (virgin receiver). I didn't run into this case, but one similar. One of the stripped receivers I built into a pistol AR had been put into Spikes Tactical books as being a rifle, but it was still ok to build into a pistol as long as it had never been assembled into a rifle (putting on the extension tube vs a pistol tube for the first build up). Once you have that first initial build behind you, you can convert back and forth like the Thompson, as long as you don't have the short barrel on at the same time as a buttstock (have to do it in the right order). I simply requested that Spikes put in writing that the lower had been sold as a stripped lower (and FFL put it in as "other"), then make sure the first time its built do it as a pistol, and that's how one can build an AR pistol out of a lower that was put into the factory books as a "rifle"
Link Posted: 8/12/2011 3:16:49 AM EDT
Thank you.
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