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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 10/5/2007 3:28:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 3:30:33 AM EST by brickard]
I looked at a house last night that my wife and I really liked. It is a little above our upper threshold with regards to price, but it will be a house my wife and I can stay in for a very long time to come and be very happy and proud of.

We are very young (25&26, but both have degrees and steady jobs in our professions) and know little to nothing about buying a home.

We met with the realtor selling the house, but I don’t have my own realtor. Should I get one if I am serious about this house? Should I have their realtor represent me?

I plan on making a lower offering on the house, should I also ask for other things at the same time such as help with closing costs, lower realtor fees?

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 3:34:38 AM EST
In Before the Haters.

Get a buyers agent. If you want me to find one for you, both my wife and I are brokers/ owners, I can.

Let me know.

The sellers agent has a responsibility, by law, to the seller only. Though you think they are nice and taking care...

Link Posted: 10/5/2007 3:34:44 AM EST
I am in about the same place. I am shopping around, too.

Yeah, Get your own realtor, it doesn't cost nothing because they split the commission with the selling realtor. Which is usually paid by the seller.
They can also help with some of the paper work.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 3:41:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 3:42:11 AM EST by brickard]
The house is actually worth the money they want for it in my oppinion, so things might not work our anyways since they might not be willing to accept much off of their asking price.

If you all think I should have my own representation, I'll look into it. I just didnt know if there would be a chance of having the overall cost lower since it would be just the one realtor.

She seems very nice, professional, and ethical, but you just never know I guess. It would probably be better to be safe than sorry I suppose.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 3:43:40 AM EST

The sellers agent has a responsibility, by law, to the seller only. Though you think they are nice and taking care


That depends on the state you are in. I would recommend a buyers agent. Not sure what state your in but here in Delaware you have buyers, sellers, and duel agents.
With someone being in a duel agency relationship the best you can hope for is equally
fair relation ship with both partys. A buyers agency relationship here would only have the buyers best interest and opposite for the sellers agent.

That being said I believe there are some states where the buyer and sellers agent both work for the seller.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 3:49:24 AM EST

I just didnt know if there would be a chance of having the overall cost lower since it would be just the one realtor.


The standard ARFCOM Realtor haters will say yes to this. But they didn't sign the listing agreement with the seller and don't have a clue on the negotiated terms...you won't know that either.

Just because there is 1 Realtor involved doesn't mean the sellers are paying less in fee's. 1 Realtor is in an essence doing the job of two. The sellers are paying (as an example) 6% for the listing of the home. IF the listing Realtor gets both sides of the transaction, meaning, they sell the home with NO other agent, they get paid 6%. If there is a buyers agent, then that 6% gets split between the two Realtors.

'Some' agents will do varible commissions with the sellers. I have listed a home for 6%, then told the sellers if I get both sides, I'll do it for 5%. This saves them 1% and gives me a 2% motivation to make sure I am working hard to get it sold.

Link Posted: 10/5/2007 3:50:42 AM EST

That being said I believe there are some states where the buyer and sellers agent both work for the seller.


Most states, by law, default that every Realtor is a sub agent of the seller unless there is an executed buyers contract.

Link Posted: 10/5/2007 3:50:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 3:56:50 AM EST by brickard]
I am in Indiana. The realtor said something about by law not being able to bias towards one side or the other, and could only tell both us and the seller certain things we said to her.

Sounds like the general consensus is that I should get my own agent just to be on the safe side.

BTW, how do you know how low of an offer to make? I feel as if I went too low, it would be insulting.

I'm talking a 14 yr old 279K house that has been on the market 9 weeks that was recently lowered to 269K 2 weeks ago. The guys dad built the house for him, so he had a nice cost savings I am sure. It's a husband, wife, and 3 kids, they are building a new house, and from the looks of things, they have their heads on their shoulders and wouldnt be in money trouble. The did say we would be able to take posession whenever the deal was sealed, so their 2nd mortgage might be kicking in soon?
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 3:55:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By brickard:
I am in Indiana. The realtor said something about by law not being able to bias towards one side or the other, and could only tell both us and the seller certain things we said to her.

Sounds like the general consensus is that I should get my own agent.


By law, she has a fiducicary duty to the seller only. Thats it. If you sign a contract with her, then she becomes a dual agent where fair and equal 'treatment' is stated.

A buyers agent will be the only one who will have 100% fiduciary responsibility to you, by law.

At your current point, you have no representation. At best, with the sellers agent, you will have some shared and who know what kind of fair treatment.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 3:59:56 AM EST
you should get your own realtor, then you tell your realtor what you want to offer and let them work out the details with the other realtor and sellers. We just finished moving this w/e.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 4:07:43 AM EST
Think very hard about what I am going to say

This is the best buyers market you may ever see in your life.
This is actually a once in a lifetime opportunity
Find a house you like and lowball the shit out of it
If the people wont budge, walk and find the next house
There are lots and lots of people out there who need out of their house ASAP due to the credit crunch in the mortgage market.

After the recent real estate price plummet, I picked up a house for 200k less that current value.


Link Posted: 10/5/2007 4:12:08 AM EST
Yup..my wife and I looked at over 120 homes on her lunch break and my days off...we waited and nailed a home in an awesome neighborhood we couldn't afford 2 years ago.

If the sellers won't play ( to a certain point ) then walk and go find another. The inventory is to high to be getting attached to one single home and being the only suckers in America paying close to near full price and terms.

Let us know what happens. So many times people start these threads and we never hear back.



Link Posted: 10/5/2007 4:14:17 AM EST
Ditto ^^^ def. a buyers market. We did sell ours in about 2 1/2 months though, and we got about 30K off the house we bought
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 4:15:26 AM EST
I'd never do it again. The realtor who represents both parties keeps 100% of the comission, whereas if you get a buyer's agent the agents split it.

When the realtor represents both parties, the parties have to agree to dual representation - this is significant.

if you have a buyer's agent, they can save you money by having sharing of the costs, making sure the home inspector is legit, and on and on.

what if there is mold you find out 5 months later? (just an example)

also, buy a home warranty! 400 bucks of the best money you will ever spend.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 4:17:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2007 4:20:11 AM EST by brickard]
I've got the thread saved, so I will definately follow back up.

I think I'll find an agent and have them do the lowball, I would kinda feel bad offering very much lower because of the condition of the house.

I would be good to go if I could get it for 240's, but I dont think I have a snowballs chance on this one. But I think you are right, I need to just keep looking if it doesnt pan out.

Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it.
I didnt sleep much last night thinking about this stuff.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 4:19:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
also, buy a home warranty! 400 bucks of the best money you will ever spend.


a 1 year warrenty is included in the house. I think that is very important on a 14 yr old house, that seems to be the magic number where appliances start to break.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 4:27:00 AM EST
Get your own realtor.

If you are able to negotiate your own deal (you need to know a few things about buying a house), hire lawyer to review the contract.

Get your own realtor.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 4:39:50 AM EST
We've got offices in Indiana...let me know if you want me to do some leg work for you.

Link Posted: 10/5/2007 4:40:41 AM EST
I would hire a good (note I said GOOD) buyer's agent. A good one will save you money. They will have access to days on market, comps, etc. Don't just take the 1st one either, there is a HUGE difference between them. I would find a referral from someone else above choosing one blindly.

The more licenses in on the deal, the more people you can sue . My wife is an owner/broker and always drags in engineers, surveyors, inspectors, pest control professionals, appraisers, etc.

One of them might just discover something bad wrong with a house and allow you to eject before it's too late.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 6:54:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By RogerBall:
I am in about the same place. I am shopping around, too.

Yeah, Get your own realtor, it doesn't cost nothing because they split the commission with the selling realtor. Which is usually paid by the seller.
They can also help with some of the paper work.


Please carefully read what ziti says.

Here's my version:
A realtor who is on commission is getting paid only if a house gets sold. When she's getting paid a commission by the seller, you should consider that she is working for the seller to sell the house, even if she is your friend and calls herself a "buyers agent."

As a home buyer, you want advice about what to look for in a house and a neighborhood and want help negotiating your best deal. A realtor might have good knowledge about this and might even give you good advice. However, that's usually not what they're getting paid to do. You might be able to get a better deal next week if you walk away from a deal today, but that means your agent works for you another week without getting paid any more and might never get paid for the advice and time already given.

As for paperwork? First, most realtors aren't also lawyers. They are not qualified or licensed to practice law. They shouldn't give legal advice. If you want legal advice, you should pay a lawyer for it.

Lawyers for your local board of realtors probably developed or customized the contract she'll use. It might have things that are relevant to your local laws. However, much of these contracts are things to protect the agent and the agency and may have boilerplate that's important in some transactions but not yours. In a nutshell, much of the paperwork is stuff that you only get because a realtor is involved.

There's a ton of other paperwork having to do with the title and mortgages, etc. This is normally handled by mortgage company and / or the closing attorney, not the realtor.
Link Posted: 10/5/2007 7:00:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 7:58:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2007 8:02:09 AM EST by brickard]
Not much of an update, but I am meeting with a mortgage loan officer today and another one Sunday to get preapproved and see what my options are.

I am wanting a 30yr fixed. I dont know if I will have any special offerings since this is our first home, my wife is a teacher, and our credit is excellent, so I guess it can't hurt to ask.

Does anyone know when the feds are supposed to reconsider lowering the interest rate again?

I plan on getting an agent to help me submit an offer on the house and take things over from here on out (once preapproved). Hopefully I can negociate a lower rate than 3% since I have found the house, got preapproved, and would be needing them less than some of their other clients.

As of right now, it looks like I will just lowball them at 15% off their asking price and see where things progress from here if they dont get offended.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 7:59:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By brickard:
snip

We met with the realtor selling the house, but I don’t have my own realtor. Should I get one if I am serious about this house?

snip


GET YOUR OWN REALTOR!
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:19:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By brickard:
Not much of an update, but I am meeting with a mortgage loan officer today and another one Sunday to get preapproved and see what my options are.

I am wanting a 30yr fixed. I dont know if I will have any special offerings since this is our first home, my wife is a teacher, and our credit is excellent, so I guess it can't hurt to ask.

Does anyone know when the feds are supposed to reconsider lowering the interest rate again?

I plan on getting an agent to help me submit an offer on the house and take things over from here on out (once preapproved). Hopefully I can negociate a lower rate than 3% since I have found the house, got preapproved, and would be needing them less than some of their other clients.

As of right now, it looks like I will just lowball them at 15% off their asking price and see where things progress from here if they dont get offended.


You missed what I typed before. The sellers have already agreed to to pay them 3%. Finding and Showing homes is the easy part, the work comes when the offer is presented, negotiated and carried through closing.

Don't try and take food off of someone's table. Its NOT up to you to determine how much money they should make. If you plan on trying that route, stick with the listing agent.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:29:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
In Before the Haters.

Get a buyers agent. If you want me to find one for you, both my wife and I are brokers/ owners, I can.

Let me know.

The sellers agent has a responsibility, by law, to the seller only. Though you think they are nice and taking care...




Well as a Real Estate Broker myself, the only thing I will add to this is not always, such as my wonderful state of Arizona, we have dual agency where one agent can represent both parties to the transaction and has fiduciary responiblity to both sides as well.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:32:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2007 8:33:51 AM EST by brickard]

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
You missed what I typed before. The sellers have already agreed to to pay them 3%. Finding and Showing homes is the easy part, the work comes when the offer is presented, negotiated and carried through closing.

Don't try and take food off of someone's table. Its NOT up to you to determine how much money they should make. If you plan on trying that route, stick with the listing agent.


I have heard on the news that lately people are even negociating realtor rates, that the standard 3 and 3 on each side is changing, so I got the bright idea that since I may have saved them weeks of drivng me around, that maybe 2%-2.5% would suffice. I guess I was off base, my appologies.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:36:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By brickard:
I have heard on the news that lately people are even negociating realtor rates, that the standard 3 and 3 on each side is changing, so I got the bright idea that since I may have saved them weeks of drivng me around, that maybe 2%-2.5% would suffice. I guess I was off base, my appologies.




Sounds like rumors to me.



The seller is locked into a commission rate or fee when the listing was taken as part of an employement agreement, that rate is in writing long before anyone every came to look at the house.

And what makes you think the Seller will pass the saving on to you if they got a cheaper rate to pay the listing agents? I surely would not, that is an old wives tale that buyers reap that benifit.


The hardest part of a real estate transaction is what is about to take place, getting you from a offer to purchase to a set of house keys, the things that you think you did already do not make the job easier by any means. I do not discount anything, why because expertise and knowledge come at a price, my clients use me because I get things moving and finish the job, not all agents can fix a tough deal. So dont expect great service if you are demanding to get discounts that come out of peoples pockets.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:37:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By brickard:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
You missed what I typed before. The sellers have already agreed to to pay them 3%. Finding and Showing homes is the easy part, the work comes when the offer is presented, negotiated and carried through closing.

Don't try and take food off of someone's table. Its NOT up to you to determine how much money they should make. If you plan on trying that route, stick with the listing agent.


I have heard on the news that lately people are even negociating realtor rates, that the standard 3 and 3 on each side is changing, so I got the bright idea that since I may have saved them weeks of drivng me around, that maybe 2%-2.5% would suffice. I guess I was off base, my appologies.



Its also illegal for a real estate agent to imply that there is a standard fee or average fee within the industry as that is a violation of the Sherman Anti Trust Laws.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:46:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2007 8:48:37 AM EST by brickard]
I appreciate being schooled. No that is not sarcastic, I really do want to learn as much about this stuff as possible, the last thing I want to do is step on anybodys toes for a little bit of $$.

Now I understand that the commision rate has already been agreed upon by the seller and the sellers agent. And I guess is paid by the seller, but more or less comes out of my pocket since I am sure it is padded in the asking price.

I guess since I have already talked directly with the seller's agent durring the open house, she would not be all that pleased when I bring in my own agent to present the offer... effectivly cutting her commision in half. :/
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:51:53 AM EST
brickard:

If I were you, I would wait another month. Real estate slows down in winter and picks up spring and summer. I don't know about local economy there but typically it is buyer's market right now. 269K to 240k does not sound like unreasonable offer but you may want to look around.

DON'T COMMIT TO THE FIRST HOUSE YOU FALL IN LOVE WITH. THERE ARE OTHERS JUST LIKE IT!!!!!

The home is on the market for 9 weeks. That's still fresh. Go to MLS and look for some homes that are on the market longer or empty. The sellers are usually more motivated to go down on the price.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:52:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By brickard:
I guess since I have already talked directly with the seller's agent durring the open house, she would not be all that pleased when I bring in my own agent to present the offer... effectivly cutting her commision in half. :/


Who gives a shit? Why makes her entitled to a double payout either?

You do know that you can buy a house with no realtors™ involved, right?

I'm no realtor™ hater, but many of them I've met can barely fill out the form. That's a lot of money for filling out a form.

People buy cars all the time without brokers, and some people buy houses that way too.

Just sayin.

Realtor™ hater haters flame on.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:59:48 AM EST
fwiw- Very often, the seller will have spelled out in his contract exactly how the commission is split. For example I had 3.8% if my seller's agent found the buyer and also acted as their agent vs. 1.8 percent if a we used an outside buyers agent. An additional 2.8% would go to the buyers agent.


So the difference in cost to me was about $2000 more if the buyer used a buyers agent.

In deciding whether to take the offer, I factored in the $2000 cost (or savings), along with any other closing costs, etc.

Ask to see the contract. If you see that the seller saves by you using his agent, then ask him to consider that in your offer. If they are smart, they are only worried about the bottom line.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:00:58 AM EST
Quit trying to make your decisions based on emotion. Any house deal done on emotion ends up in the sellers court.

Make your decision based on sound business practice only.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:03:29 AM EST
My standard fee is the following for listings on SFRs



6% if I pay a co-op

4% if i find a willing and able buyer

Now if I represent a buyer, I have a buyer broker agreement that says that if the seller does not pay me equal to 3% for selling the house as your buyer agent, then you the buyer will make up the difference or pay me the full amount for my services since I do not work for free.

So saying the sellers always pay is not always correct.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:06:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2007 9:08:16 AM EST by prk]
The realtor may have agreed to a fee with the HO, but there is nothing but economics in the way of her accepting 2 & 2 or 2.5 & 2.5. (with the total/combined discount of 2 or 1 coming off the price you ultimately negotiate) Or is there?

If your agent alone agrees to 2 or 2.5, could she try to still charge the HO a total 6? That would mean that your agent is giving his discount to her. Sa-weet, in her mind.

Seems like the discounted fee concept should come out after the other side smells a nearly done deal, so maybe a contingency on that could be put vaguely in your offer.

If they are buying/building another home and winter is approaching and they might be in the last last third of the listing agreement, it seems like time and a ready low offer are on your side.

Get your OWN inspector, BTW. And you might check country records (recorder) to see if they're in default and how many levels of financing they took, especially recently.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:21:26 AM EST
Like I said what makes you think the seller is going to pass the savings on to the buyer.



And with the way lenders are now, there is no realtor fees padded into the listing prices, well at least the agreed purchase price I should say. Appraisers are having a hell of a hard time to get the lenders to accept fair market values right now in all honestly. The listing fees are effecting the bottom line for the sellers in todays market. And most sellers are near the verge of not making any money anyways thanks to 100% purchase LTVs and 125% CLTV refis. Hence the reason there is no money to be made on foreclosures like in the 1980s.
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