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Posted: 11/3/2009 2:44:54 PM EST
I see guys shouldering their rifle high like this one:





Then I see other guys shooting like this, which is how I always hold it:





Is it personal preference or are there advantages to each method?
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:46:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 2:47:13 PM EST by Dull-shooterM4]
Can't see pic #2.

ETA...can see it now.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:47:47 PM EST
Toe of the buttstock in the pocket of the shoulder.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:49:27 PM EST
I believe its because the vest is in the way so they hold it up higher.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:50:17 PM EST
I try to get the energy of the recoil to go into my shoulder - not over it.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:50:20 PM EST
Put it whever it let's you hit the target the best.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:50:24 PM EST
If you're hittin' what you're aimin' at, what's it matter?
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:51:09 PM EST
depends, its two diffrent shooting styles. the higher is a more competitive style with more acuracy and less speed in mind. the lower is a more CQB style where making yourself a smaller target it the goal. neither is wrong and it is usefull if you know how to do both.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:52:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By GhostRing:
I try to get the energy of the recoil to go into my shoulder - not over it.


That's exactly what I was thinking.

I don't want the axis of the bolt carrier to be higher than my shoulder which is why I hold it low.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:54:04 PM EST
First guy has a TA31 ACOG, a helmet, and armor on. Shooting becomes a bit different with that gear on.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:55:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 2:58:44 PM EST by Dull-shooterM4]
Both pics look the same? Pic1 is a tiny bit higher, but mostly the same. Stock position mostly comes down to how it fits into an individuals shoulder, but will adjust a bit due to stance and weather or not they have body armor or shoulder straps from a ruck.

They all look like marines, and none of them are "doing it wrong".

<<<<<<< Under the armpit is best method. I always shoot from the hip. Never missed yet. (see avatar)
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:57:33 PM EST
I'm not a door kicker, but at Gunsite, they teach the high on the shoulder method.... basically teaching to bring the sights up into your sightline, rather than craning your head down to get on the sights. It took some getting used to, but I find it much faster now. <shrug>
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:57:55 PM EST
High is my preference. Preference may be due to body habitus of the individual shooter. I have always tried to 'bring the gun to my eye' rather than scrunch up to a lower mount. YMMV.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:58:51 PM EST
They aren't the same, look at the A4 in the top pic.

The buffer tube is above his shoulder.

Now look at the guy shooting the A2 in the bottom pic, he's holding it a lot lower.

I've seen much more dramatic pictures of this.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:01:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 3:02:08 PM EST by Backstop]
It's a 223/5.56 - there isn't much recoil.

My rule is: Bring the stock up far enough that I can get a comfortable cheek weld and good sight pic.

Never had a problem of not enough stock on my shoulder.

Again, I don't consider where the stock is on my shoulder.

I work at getting the stock up far enough that I get a good, consistent cheek weld, and can see through my optics well.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:01:58 PM EST
Silly question. Everyone knows that you shoot those assault rifles from the hip, spraying wildly at orphans, nuns, and small, furry animals (the orphans and nuns might be small and furry as well).




Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:02:57 PM EST
Look similar to me. High in the shoulder that is.

The difference you're seeing is the nuances between ACOGed rifles and individual body structure.

Semper Fidelis
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:03:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By ftwm:
Originally Posted By GhostRing:
I try to get the energy of the recoil to go into my shoulder - not over it.


That's exactly what I was thinking.

I don't want the axis of the bolt carrier to be higher than my shoulder which is why I hold it low.


Recoil in an AR?

I suppose your ears hurt when you fired a cap gun too.

Higher seems to be the way the AR/M series are properly shouldered.

Part of it, is lower requires too much bending to get your head behind the sites.

Part of it, seems to that .mil users are wearing body armor, and that alters what is the proper area to shoulder the weapon.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:04:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 3:07:37 PM EST by brett1970]
i tend to hold mine in this position
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:06:07 PM EST
Personal preference, being able to hit your target is all that matters.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:08:50 PM EST
Here's a better pic of what I am referring to:


Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:10:00 PM EST
i hold mine lower than the first pic.
Just the way i was taught. i'm sure either way works fine. You may have to make adjustments depending on what kind of gear you are wearing
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:11:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 3:13:36 PM EST by Dull-shooterM4]
Originally Posted By ftwm:
They aren't the same, look at the A4 in the top pic.

The buffer tube is above his shoulder.

Now look at the guy shooting the A2 in the bottom pic, he's holding it a lot lower.

I've seen much more dramatic pictures of this.


Pics are not much different. Look at their stances. Pic1's shoulders are more perpendicular to the firing line, while the shoulders of the A2 shooter in pic2 are more parallel to the firing line. You can see more of the rear of the buttstock in pic1 because of this but if you look closely at both, they are both placed in much the same spot (pocket) on the shoulder. The angle of the photo is a bit deceiving as well but look closely. The top two inches of butt are NOT contacting the shoulder in pic2 (A2 shooter). It just looks that way.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:11:39 PM EST
I always hear people here saying Nose to the charging handle, and see 2 different things going on in the 2nd pic.

You can learn an awful lot about what you're doing wrong if you video yourself shooting. I did it once just to compare the flash of different ammo around dusk, and noticed some bad habits.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:12:19 PM EST
whatever position allows the shooter to properly site the weapon without tilting his head. Eyes should always be level.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:15:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By ftwm:
Here's a better pic of what I am referring to:


http://i38.tinypic.com/30vhkpt.jpg


This Marine's weapon hold is exaggerated due to the improper mounting of his ACOG. If the sight was a few rail slots back, he would hold it in the 'normal' high shoulder position.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:16:40 PM EST
I don't have to tilt my head nearly as much with the stock up high––I put the point of the stock into the pocket of the shoulder, like in the first picture.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:18:47 PM EST
Whatever it takes to get a good cheek weld and site picture.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:20:09 PM EST
Shooter in the first pic has his shoulders more perpendicular to the firing line. The butt is slightly turned out from the shoulder because of his body position. Both A4 and A2 shooters have the stock at about the same level. Stances are different.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:22:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
I don't have to tilt my head nearly as much with the stock up high––I put the point of the stock into the pocket of the shoulder, like in the first picture.


Same. I used to hold my rifles and shotguns lower, and then transitioned to the higher positioning, I noticed my shot placement got better and it seemed to save my shoulder more.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:22:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By ftwm:
Here's a better pic of what I am referring to:


http://i38.tinypic.com/30vhkpt.jpg


I don't think he's actually firing in the picture, most likely scanning with the 4X.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:24:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By Renegade13B:
depends, its two diffrent shooting styles. the higher is a more competitive style with more acuracy and less speed in mind. the lower is a more CQB style where making yourself a smaller target it the goal. neither is wrong and it is usefull if you know how to do both.





This.

Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:24:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By TheNamelessOne:
I believe its because the vest is in the way so they hold it up higher.


LBE gets in the way, at FT Knox(1988) a long time ago we were taught to roll the shoulder strap out of the way during qualification.

Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:25:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By spoonrobot:
Originally Posted By ftwm:
Here's a better pic of what I am referring to:


http://i38.tinypic.com/30vhkpt.jpg


I don't think he's actually firing in the picture, most likely scanning with the 4X.


That's what I was thinking also.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:26:12 PM EST
i tend to hold my gun lower, and have my nose almost on the charging handle. I think alot of it does with style of fighting (Reaching out and touching someone v. CQB) and what gear the shooter is wearing.

Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:28:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By ftwm:
Here's a better pic of what I am referring to:


http://i38.tinypic.com/30vhkpt.jpg


Looks to me like he's using his ACOG because he lost his binoculars... He isn't shooting.

I've also noticed that guys with VFG's tend to shoot a bit more "heads up" for some reason. I think because your hand is lower it's less fatiguing or something... not sure...
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:28:51 PM EST
Helmet,vest.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:29:25 PM EST
I don't even shoulder my AR. I try to keep it closer to the center line of my body which puts the stock into my right pectoral. Obviously if you shoot weaver stance this method would not work.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 3:46:09 PM EST
I was an active duty Marine from 2000-2005. Lots of people like to use just one style. But, I used the position in pic 1 for semi auto, rifle qual, and/or unexpected target acquisition (just naturally faster for me to get on target), and used pic 2's style for full auto with M4's or burst in the A2's. It's all personal. Use whatever feels natural and gives good results.
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