Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 7/14/2008 6:27:21 AM EDT
From article:
"The White House says President Bush is planning to lift an executive ban on offshore oil drilling. In a Rose Garden statement on Monday, the president plans to lift the ban. But by itself, the move will not lead to more drilling off America's coastline. Congress must still lift its own legislative ban before offshore drilling can happen."

Bush to lift executive ban on offshore drilling
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 7:42:10 AM EDT
This is still a good move for Bush. If he lifts the presidential ban, then all of the political pressure will fall to the democrats and expose them as the obstructionists to energy independance that they are.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 7:48:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 3:55:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jammer1:
This is still a good move for Bush. If he lifts the presidential ban, then all of the political pressure will fall to the democrats and expose them as the obstructionists to energy independance that they are.


Do you really think that the oil that we have offshore is enough to replace all the oil that we import?

I think Dems support energy independence more than you realize, because renewable sources (solar, wind, hydro, etc) are completely domestic and won't run out. Cheap oil will just push advancement in these fields further into the future.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 4:36:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jm81:

Originally Posted By Jammer1:
This is still a good move for Bush. If he lifts the presidential ban, then all of the political pressure will fall to the democrats and expose them as the obstructionists to energy independance that they are.


Do you really think that the oil that we have offshore is enough to replace all the oil that we import?

I think Dems support energy independence more than you realize, because renewable sources (solar, wind, hydro, etc) are completely domestic and won't run out. Cheap oil will just push advancement in these fields further into the future.


It is not a matter of what you or I think. It is a fact that we have more oil within our own borders and territorial waters than Saudi Arabia. The problem lies with the inability to access it. Once again, big government with its hands on things it has no business being involved with, has created this problem. Don't get me wrong, it has come about due to the inaction of both parties. The Republicans are trying to fix that, but the Democrats are too deeply in the pockets of the environmentalists to let them take any productive action.

I fail to see how refusal to act in any meaningful way to the domestic energy crisis that we are now in, is in any way supporting energy independence. Quite the opposite, we are more dependent upon foreign sources that do not have our best interest at heart due to their obstruction.

As for renewable resources, the only way that any of them are able to stay in business is through tax breaks from the government. None of them produce enough energy at an efficient enough rate to be competitive with more abundant resources. The only intelligent way to attack this problem is to open up new areas for drilling into know reserves while simultaneously pressing for greater research into new technologies that once fully developed, can reduce the amount of fossil fuels needed. This is going to require a rather lengthy transition. It will not be as simple as turning off one switch and turning on another. Even if we had an economically viable substitute for gasoline and diesel today, there is still a tremendous demand for petroleum for other products for which there is no substitute.

If there is a bright part of the picture, it is that the capitalist system will find answers to our problems if government will get out of the way and let them. The price of oil being so high creates a vacuum that is begging for an answer to be found. One can only hope that if it is found, they wont be attacked and lionized by the left for finding an answer to our problem and daring to turn a profit.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 4:41:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jm81:

Originally Posted By Jammer1:
This is still a good move for Bush. If he lifts the presidential ban, then all of the political pressure will fall to the democrats and expose them as the obstructionists to energy independance that they are.


Do you really think that the oil that we have offshore is enough to replace all the oil that we import?

I think Dems support energy independence more than you realize, because renewable sources (solar, wind, hydro, etc) are completely domestic and won't run out. Cheap oil will just push advancement in these fields further into the future.


Solar, Wind, and hydro power is not going to move my car down the street any time in the next 30 years.

Oil will.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 4:43:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jm81:

Do you really think that the oil that we have offshore is enough to replace all the oil that we import?




Coupled with the Alaska pipeline & everything else, yes, easily!
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 5:03:22 PM EDT
Pickens seems to agree with me... www.pickensplan.com/index.php


Originally Posted By Jammer1:
I fail to see how refusal to act in any meaningful way to the domestic energy crisis that we are now in, is in any way supporting energy independence. Quite the opposite, we are more dependent upon foreign sources that do not have our best interest at heart due to their obstruction.


That depends on what you think the "crisis" is. I see it as our reliance on a finite fossil fuel. The more expensive that fuel is, the less we will use it. The less we use it, the more we will have to use renewable alternatives.



....

If there is a bright part of the picture, it is that the capitalist system will find answers to our problems if government will get out of the way and let them. The price of oil being so high creates a vacuum that is begging for an answer to be found. One can only hope that if it is found, they wont be attacked and lionized by the left for finding an answer to our problem and daring to turn a profit.


I agree with the first part; disagree with the second. I think our differences is in how quickly it can/will happen and whether or not we should push it along.



Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Solar, Wind, and hydro power is not going to move my car down the street any time in the next 30 years.

Oil will.


Well, in the future, you'll need to sell your car and live closer to work. It's not a sustainable lifestyle. At least not until McCain's magic batteries are invented.
Link Posted: 7/14/2008 5:20:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jm81:
Pickens seems to agree with me... www.pickensplan.com/index.php

I am well aware of his opinion. Unfortunately it does not go far enough. Amazing how liberals are willing to hold up an oil tycoon as an example, and eviscerate them when it suits their needs.


Originally Posted By Jammer1:
I fail to see how refusal to act in any meaningful way to the domestic energy crisis that we are now in, is in any way supporting energy independence. Quite the opposite, we are more dependent upon foreign sources that do not have our best interest at heart due to their obstruction.


That depends on what you think the "crisis" is. I see it as our reliance on a finite fossil fuel. The more expensive that fuel is, the less we will use it. The less we use it, the more we will have to use renewable alternatives.

The one part that must be considered is the economic consequences of that kind of thinking without corrective action. If the Democrats maintain their current stance, they will get hammered in November.


....

If there is a bright part of the picture, it is that the capitalist system will find answers to our problems if government will get out of the way and let them. The price of oil being so high creates a vacuum that is begging for an answer to be found. One can only hope that if it is found, they wont be attacked and lionized by the left for finding an answer to our problem and daring to turn a profit.


I agree with the first part; disagree with the second. I think our differences is in how quickly it can/will happen and whether or not we should push it along.

Market forces alone will provide all the motivation that is needed.


Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Solar, Wind, and hydro power is not going to move my car down the street any time in the next 30 years.

Oil will.


Well, in the future, you'll need to sell your car and live closer to work. It's not a sustainable lifestyle. At least not until McCain's magic batteries are invented.


Who the hell are you or anyone else to tell anyone where to live and where to work. As usual, liberals are lost on the concept of FREEDOM and this is a classic example.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 12:18:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jammer1:
....

Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Solar, Wind, and hydro power is not going to move my car down the street any time in the next 30 years.

Oil will.



Well, in the future, you'll need to sell your car and live closer to work. It's not a sustainable lifestyle. At least not until McCain's magic batteries are invented.


Who the hell are you or anyone else to tell anyone where to live and where to work. As usual, liberals are lost on the concept of FREEDOM and this is a classic example.


I KNEW this would be misinterpreted. I'm not talking about forcing anyone to move or ride a bike. I'm just saying it's inevitable, so you might as well sell your cars now while you still can. Ortherwise, you'll be stuck with old technology that will have to be scrapped.

For example, if we all knew that a certain caliber of firearm was going to stop being manufactured in ten years, and fifteen years after that, the rounds for it would stop being made, wouldn't you sell all of your guns in that caliber?
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 1:19:19 PM EDT
You are making the mistake that your assertion is an inevitability. It most certainly is not.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 1:25:29 PM EDT
People need to start thinking on the margins a little bit. Opec and other oil producers sell only enough oil to BARELY meet global demand. This is intentional. If you can increase domestic oil production by even a small amount, the increase in supply should bring the market prices back down to a manageable level.

We also need to increase refining capacity which is also BARELY meeting demand. We haven't had a new refinery built in this country in 30 years. If one explodes or goes offline for maintenence, gas prices go up over night because supplies are so tight.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 1:48:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jm81:

Originally Posted By Jammer1:
....

Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Solar, Wind, and hydro power is not going to move my car down the street any time in the next 30 years.

Oil will.



Well, in the future, you'll need to sell your car and live closer to work. It's not a sustainable lifestyle. At least not until McCain's magic batteries are invented.


Who the hell are you or anyone else to tell anyone where to live and where to work. As usual, liberals are lost on the concept of FREEDOM and this is a classic example.


I KNEW this would be misinterpreted. I'm not talking about forcing anyone to move or ride a bike. I'm just saying it's inevitable, so you might as well sell your cars now while you still can. Ortherwise, you'll be stuck with old technology that will have to be scrapped.

For example, if we all knew that a certain caliber of firearm was going to stop being manufactured in ten years, and fifteen years after that, the rounds for it would stop being made, wouldn't you sell all of your guns in that caliber?


Nope would happen, let explain something to you, as you have probably never met someone like me before. I am one of those people that can actually repair a vehicle I spent over 20 year running a business restoring older engines, I make my own pistons, pour my own bearings, adapt other bearings to fit. There is very little I can not build or repair in my shop. I'm one of those old guys that not only signed the back of patchecks, but SIGNED THE FRONT OF YOURS!

And if I had a gun I couldn't get ammo for, well I'd cast my bullets, find a powdor/primer that worked, find a brass I could adapt.

If I need to I can raise my own food, build my own shelter. I am the person the liberal fears the most someone self-reliant and takes care of them self. I DO NOT NEED BARAK HUSSIEN OBAMA TO TAKE CARE OF ME OR BE MY 'DADDY'. All I want in life is to be left alone by idiots like Barak Hussien Obama. I do not want to live the liberal lifestyle, I moved from Kommieforia because I was SICK of the destruction the liberal pieces of shit were doing there.

I do not live for technology, technology is a tool for me.

I also understand what it takes for this country to get out of the jam we're in.
That is first off all start drilling for oil, if the areas off the continetal shelf were open today, the oil companies with moving the existing rigs they own could have oil flowing in 6-9 months, not 10 years like the retarded dems say. Even if the oil companies have to build deep sea rigs it would be 3-4 years. AWAR could be sending oil down to the lower 48 in about 3 years and when the oil companies were done you would NEVER even know they had been there.

Next we need to get going building nuclear power plants, and ban the green weenies and their attorneys from stopping them.

Wind farms/solar are ok, but will never be a backbone to the power grid.

At one time back in the 70's there was work being on controled fusion reactions. Fusion would give us energy for the next 500 years, but Jack-off Jimmy Carter and the dems got to scared to finish devolping it. If Jack-off Jimmy and the dems had not pulled the plug on fusion devolpment the U.S. by estamites could be starting to build the plants starting around now.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 1:54:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RyanH:
People need to start thinking on the margins a little bit. Opec and other oil producers sell only enough oil to BARELY meet global demand. This is intentional. If you can increase domestic oil production by even a small amount, the increase in supply should bring the market prices back down to a manageable level.

We also need to increase refining capacity which is also BARELY meeting demand. We haven't had a new refinery built in this country in 30 years. If one explodes or goes offline for maintenence, gas prices go up over night because supplies are so tight.


Just bringing the banned areas online to allow drilling would have a next to overnight drop in the price of crude by atleast 20%. First few wells coming in and build a few refineries the price of oil down be down 40-50%.

Now if Barak Hussien Obama gets elected all bets are off, if you look at this last quick rise in oil prices they went up right after Barak Hussien Obama started winning. Think about it...
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 3:10:49 PM EDT
Why would i sell it, i would just reload for it
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 3:36:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fullautoguy:
Why would i sell it, i would just reload for it


This guy has pretty much demonstrated that he is not a gun person. He is just a political hack, here to stir up shit. Dont bother trying to reason with him or any other liberal, it is lost on them. All that is required to be a liberal is to "feel". Hence it would be like arguing with a hormonal woman.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 5:54:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 5:55:49 PM EDT by jm81]
Oh give me an F-ing break. This is the political forum. I don't spread my liberal views on the other forums(other than maybe general topics). Disagree with me if you want, sure, but don't accuse me of not being into guns. You can do a google search and see that I've helped answer questions in the AR15 boards. I don't know how else to prove it other than inviting you into my home.

Of course no analogy is perfect, including the caliber one. Sure, you could reload your own.

You could also convert your own car to electric. There are kits for it out there. Problem is, we can't produce enough electricity to run all of our cars at their current levels of use and growth. (And we may never be able to as long as we have cheap oil until the last drop.)

You could also make your own fuel, but any alternate source will also be sought after by others who want to make their own too, and so will become just as expensive. Bio-fuel won't work because we spend more calories and oil-based products on farming each calorie that we get out of it.

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:12:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 6:14:15 PM EDT by SilentType]
About damn time.

Better late than never I guess. Of course, the damn tree huggers in the Congress are going to keep us from making any real progress.

These liberal hypocritical douchebags don't give a damn that China builds a coal power plant every single week, but we can't even drill for oil using the most modern and advanced technology on the planet.

Almost our entire trade deficit is from our importation of oil. The dollar is weaker and yet still our trade deficit is growing all because of oil. We're transfering untold wealth and engaged heavily both politically and militarily in the middle east to keep the region stable. The time to act is now, we don't have decades to wait for alternative energy to come on line and every American to own a hybrid. Blood is being shed, families are hurting, and our nation is in decline.

Let's get to work. Let's do our part here at home while American Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines do their part overseas. Energy independence is a critical part of winning the War on Terror. The military is doing their part and it is time the Americans here at home did their part.

Maintain stability in the middle east until we can secure enough domestic resources to secure our own energy needs = VICTORY. Anyway you cut it the history books will record it as a VICTORY to our national interests and to our way of life. Take away the finanical resources that pay for Iran's nuclear weapons program and the Terrorist operations by radical groups. The liberals want to get out of Iraq so bad here is the way to do it and do it with an undeniable victory. Win this WAR on BOTH fronts abroad and at home.

Let's Drill.

Let's Win.

Link Posted: 7/16/2008 4:20:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jm81:

Originally Posted By Jammer1:
This is still a good move for Bush. If he lifts the presidential ban, then all of the political pressure will fall to the democrats and expose them as the obstructionists to energy independance that they are.


Do you really think that the oil that we have offshore is enough to replace all the oil that we import?

I think Dems support energy independence more than you realize, because renewable sources (solar, wind, hydro, etc) are completely domestic and won't run out. Cheap oil will just push advancement in these fields further into the future.

Yes, of course an alternate fuel sources like hydrogen would be preferable. So get to work on making that prototype. I understand Honda has one so maybe all this bitching will be mute.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 4:56:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DonofKalifornia:

Originally Posted By jm81:

Originally Posted By Jammer1:
....

Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Solar, Wind, and hydro power is not going to move my car down the street any time in the next 30 years.

Oil will.



Well, in the future, you'll need to sell your car and live closer to work. It's not a sustainable lifestyle. At least not until McCain's magic batteries are invented.


Who the hell are you or anyone else to tell anyone where to live and where to work. As usual, liberals are lost on the concept of FREEDOM and this is a classic example.


I KNEW this would be misinterpreted. I'm not talking about forcing anyone to move or ride a bike. I'm just saying it's inevitable, so you might as well sell your cars now while you still can. Ortherwise, you'll be stuck with old technology that will have to be scrapped.

For example, if we all knew that a certain caliber of firearm was going to stop being manufactured in ten years, and fifteen years after that, the rounds for it would stop being made, wouldn't you sell all of your guns in that caliber?


Nope would happen, let explain something to you, as you have probably never met someone like me before. I am one of those people that can actually repair a vehicle I spent over 20 year running a business restoring older engines, I make my own pistons, pour my own bearings, adapt other bearings to fit. There is very little I can not build or repair in my shop. I'm one of those old guys that not only signed the back of patchecks, but SIGNED THE FRONT OF YOURS!

And if I had a gun I couldn't get ammo for, well I'd cast my bullets, find a powdor/primer that worked, find a brass I could adapt.

If I need to I can raise my own food, build my own shelter. I am the person the liberal fears the most someone self-reliant and takes care of them self. I DO NOT NEED BARAK HUSSIEN OBAMA TO TAKE CARE OF ME OR BE MY 'DADDY'. All I want in life is to be left alone by idiots like Barak Hussien Obama. I do not want to live the liberal lifestyle, I moved from Kommieforia because I was SICK of the destruction the liberal pieces of shit were doing there.

I do not live for technology, technology is a tool for me.

I also understand what it takes for this country to get out of the jam we're in.
That is first off all start drilling for oil, if the areas off the continetal shelf were open today, the oil companies with moving the existing rigs they own could have oil flowing in 6-9 months, not 10 years like the retarded dems say. Even if the oil companies have to build deep sea rigs it would be 3-4 years. AWAR could be sending oil down to the lower 48 in about 3 years and when the oil companies were done you would NEVER even know they had been there.

Next we need to get going building nuclear power plants, and ban the green weenies and their attorneys from stopping them.

Wind farms/solar are ok, but will never be a backbone to the power grid.

At one time back in the 70's there was work being on controled fusion reactions. Fusion would give us energy for the next 500 years, but Jack-off Jimmy Carter and the dems got to scared to finish devolping it. If Jack-off Jimmy and the dems had not pulled the plug on fusion devolpment the U.S. by estamites could be starting to build the plants starting around now.

Dude I dig the way you think
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 9:43:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nukldragr:

Originally Posted By jm81:

Originally Posted By Jammer1:
This is still a good move for Bush. If he lifts the presidential ban, then all of the political pressure will fall to the democrats and expose them as the obstructionists to energy independance that they are.


Do you really think that the oil that we have offshore is enough to replace all the oil that we import?

I think Dems support energy independence more than you realize, because renewable sources (solar, wind, hydro, etc) are completely domestic and won't run out. Cheap oil will just push advancement in these fields further into the future.

Yes, of course an alternate fuel sources like hydrogen would be preferable. So get to work on making that prototype. I understand Honda has one so maybe all this bitching will be mute.


Problem isn't the cars its refueling them with the hydrogen. Infastructure would take decades to put in place and what is everyone going to rush out and purchase a new car? I can't afford that. Plus, how expensive are the replacement parts going to be and how long before we have repair shops that can work on them? Right now you can spend thousands to replace a battery on a hybrid.

What about all the semi-trucks, trains, aircraft, and ships? I remember reading that the US Air Force is one of the highest energy consumers in the world. We need the oil.

Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:41:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 11:18:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Neez:
www.worldofstock.com/slides/TAV1104.jpg


They'll all be driving cars soon. Most predict that by the end of this year China will have as many cars as the United States on the road. Discovery Channel did a special on China recently and they were claiming that China's middle class has now grown to 320 million people (larger than the US population).

Link Posted: 7/16/2008 11:27:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SilentType:

Originally Posted By nukldragr:

Originally Posted By jm81:

Originally Posted By Jammer1:
This is still a good move for Bush. If he lifts the presidential ban, then all of the political pressure will fall to the democrats and expose them as the obstructionists to energy independence that they are.


Do you really think that the oil that we have offshore is enough to replace all the oil that we import?

I think Dems support energy independence more than you realize, because renewable sources (solar, wind, hydro, etc) are completely domestic and won't run out. Cheap oil will just push advancement in these fields further into the future.

Yes, of course an alternate fuel sources like hydrogen would be preferable. So get to work on making that prototype. I understand Honda has one so maybe all this bitching will be mute.


Problem isn't the cars its refueling them with the hydrogen. Infrastructure would take decades to put in place and what is everyone going to rush out and purchase a new car? I can't afford that. Plus, how expensive are the replacement parts going to be and how long before we have repair shops that can work on them? Right now you can spend thousands to replace a battery on a hybrid.

What about all the semi-trucks, trains, aircraft, and ships? I remember reading that the US Air Force is one of the highest energy consumers in the world. We need the oil.


I agree we need the oil and we need to drill off our own coasts and in anwar.....Fuck the caribou!
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 1:53:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SilentType:

Originally Posted By Neez:
www.worldofstock.com/slides/TAV1104.jpg


They'll all be driving cars soon. Most predict that by the end of this year China will have as many cars as the United States on the road. Discovery Channel did a special on China recently and they were claiming that China's middle class has now grown to 320 million people (larger than the US population).



Actually it was not 'to 320 million', but 'by 320 million'. I was just in China a few months ago, you should see the amount of cars they own. Also guess which is the largest seller?...Buick..
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 10:16:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DonofKalifornia:

Originally Posted By SilentType:

Originally Posted By Neez:
www.worldofstock.com/slides/TAV1104.jpg


They'll all be driving cars soon. Most predict that by the end of this year China will have as many cars as the United States on the road. Discovery Channel did a special on China recently and they were claiming that China's middle class has now grown to 320 million people (larger than the US population).



Actually it was not 'to 320 million', but 'by 320 million'. I was just in China a few months ago, you should see the amount of cars they own. Also guess which is the largest seller?...Buick..


That might change now that I hear China wants to build cars. So far they've been found unfit to drive in most Western nations for safety reasons, but it's only a matter of time before we see Chinese cars in our car lots around this country.

China is going to end up taking that offshore oil from us at some point or some other government will. Exxon Mobil is the largest US Oil Company, but it's the 14th largest in the world. The Dems want to drive American oil out of business through regulation and taxes while they kill domestic production. The whole Democratic party was hijacked long ago by extreme environmentalist. Go to any campaign headquarters of any Dem and you'll find that most of their volunteers are made up of Sierra Club/Green Peace types.

This is how the Dems want it. US Economy collapses so they get to take over our industry sector and get people so desperate they become dependent on Government. Then come BIG time socialism right into communism.

Link Posted: 7/17/2008 4:29:25 PM EDT
It is about time that Bush lifted this ban and it is dang lucky for FLGov Crist and any other FL Politician that got off his/her butt and followed suit as we would vote their butts right out when it comes time. It is high time that we drill now and drill fast. While I want to see the oil $ come down as soon as the first drill hits oil, we need to quit dragging and wake up and smell the coffee before we are a third world nation.

I think the majority of people with a bit of wisdom are starting to sense the smell of survival in the air and stop this wacko green theology....we can only hope and pray. The quote about driving the same car for 30 more years is right...who is the other guy to tell him where to live and work??? Liberals!

Can you imagine the Govt bailout if everyone had to have their fossil fueled car bought out so everyone could run hydrogen or alfalfa in 5 years. I dont know which is more toxic to our nation...a hate monger marxist for POTUS or the ridiculous climate change wackos. Lets get a grip and be Americans and quit apologizing for being who we are, The land of the free and the brave...if you dont like this country and think we should all speak different languages and apologize for offending others with our flag...then get your butt out of this fine USA!
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 8:58:25 PM EDT
We're faced with a challenge here on the homefront.

We can either keep our troops forever engaged in the middle east with their petty B.S. hundred year old beefs or we keep the place stable enough until we have the capacity to leave it for dead. Then just bomb the crap out of them whenever they move toward WMD.

Civilians made an effort to contribute to victory in WWII. We've had the same fighting spirit with our military as we did back then, but we've lacked the civilian effort...well here it is. Do we want to secure our future for our children or just watch everything our families have built for generations crumble?

Anyone that prevents the US from drilling in every viable area knowing the situation we're in is an enemy of freedom and has blood on their hands. I honestly don't believe that is an overstatement at all.



Link Posted: 7/18/2008 4:50:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SilentType:
We're faced with a challenge here on the homefront.

We can either keep our troops forever engaged in the middle east with their petty B.S. hundred year old beefs or we keep the place stable enough until we have the capacity to leave it for dead. Then just bomb the crap out of them whenever they move toward WMD.

Civilians made an effort to contribute to victory in WWII. We've had the same fighting spirit with our military as we did back then, but we've lacked the civilian effort...well here it is. Do we want to secure our future for our children or just watch everything our families have built for generations crumble?

Anyone that prevents the US from drilling in every viable area knowing the situation we're in is an enemy of freedom and has blood on their hands. I honestly don't believe that is an overstatement at all.




A very interesting POV
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 4:53:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:

Originally Posted By jm81:

Originally Posted By Jammer1:
This is still a good move for Bush. If he lifts the presidential ban, then all of the political pressure will fall to the democrats and expose them as the obstructionists to energy independance that they are.


Do you really think that the oil that we have offshore is enough to replace all the oil that we import?

I think Dems support energy independence more than you realize, because renewable sources (solar, wind, hydro, etc) are completely domestic and won't run out. Cheap oil will just push advancement in these fields further into the future.


Solar, Wind, and hydro power is not going to move my car down the street any time in the next 30 years.

Oil will.


a hurricane could too if you are in florida
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:30:45 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By jm81:

Do you really think that the oil that we have offshore is enough to replace all the oil that we import?



So why let the Chinese, Venezuela, Russia, etc. drill out in international waters and we can't. The ocean will be drilled why not be part of it.

Until we all get our Wii cars from japan, we need a little more oil.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 3:49:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nukldragr:

Originally Posted By SilentType:
We're faced with a challenge here on the homefront.

We can either keep our troops forever engaged in the middle east with their petty B.S. hundred year old beefs or we keep the place stable enough until we have the capacity to leave it for dead. Then just bomb the crap out of them whenever they move toward WMD.

Civilians made an effort to contribute to victory in WWII. We've had the same fighting spirit with our military as we did back then, but we've lacked the civilian effort...well here it is. Do we want to secure our future for our children or just watch everything our families have built for generations crumble?

Anyone that prevents the US from drilling in every viable area knowing the situation we're in is an enemy of freedom and has blood on their hands. I honestly don't believe that is an overstatement at all.




A very interesting POV


Thank you.

Americans are fighters and they feel like they've been left out of the fight, because we've placed our goals of victory in the hands of the people of Iraq. I think underneath it all that is why people our discouraged with the Iraq war.

By moving toward seperation from the dependence on middle eastern oil we take back control of our destiny and our fate will be in our own hands. We can secure our nation's interests we can say that there was a threat to our energy needs, that we dealt with it, and at the same time gave the people of Iraq a chance to secure their freedom. Whatever the future of Iraq though after we leave if we leave with energy independence we can say that our interests were secured. We can claim a real victory that would be undeniable and the date of total victory would be when the last oil tankers from the middle east enter our ports.

Something we could all be invested in, something we could all have control over, and something we could all be proud of. The politicans that stand in the way of drilling must be driven from office, because they stand in the way of victory and a secured future for our children.


Top Top