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Posted: 9/24/2004 9:51:22 PM EST
I got this in a an email from a discussion group (on atheism of all things) and thought it might go over better here :)

This is what I think of when people talk about Christ's message.

Hats off to Mr. Bush.



It's long but well worth the extra time it takes to read the whole thing.
Give yourself a couple of minutes to be encouraged.

This is from a man, Bruce Vincent, from Montana who received an award
from the President. He writes:

I've written the following narrative to chronicle the day of the award
ceremony in DC. I'm still working on a press release but the White House
press corps has yet to provide a photo to go with it. When the photo comes
I'll ship it out. When you get done reading this you'll understand the
dilemma I face in telling this story beyond my circle of close friends.

The moment with the President in the Oval Office was incredible. I want to
protect the memory because it was an intensely private moment between two
men. At the same time I'd like to share it on a broader scale because I'd
like others to know what I know about the man sitting at the desk in the
Oval Office.

For now, I'll just tell it to you folks.

As you know, our efforts concerning the reintroduction of our rural,
resource providing cultures to the ever more urbane society of our nation
has been honored with an award from the President and First Lady Bush.
Nominated by the Forest Service for the first ever Preserve America
President's Award was our cultural exchange program Provider PalsT and
our restoration of an abandoned CCC built Forest Service ranger station
(Raven Ranger Station) for use as a learning center for students from throughout
the nation that are now engaged in our cultural exchange.

The award was given at a White House ceremony on Monday, May 3. Guests at
the East Room ceremony (the Rose Garden was going to be used but it rained)
included Secretary of Interior Gorton, Secretary of Agriculture Venneman,
Undersecretary Mark Rey, Chief Bosworth, President's Advisory Council for
Preserve America, and others. The East Wing was closed to the public for
the event and those who attended enjoyed brunch and live chamber music.

Provider PalsT was able to bring members of our board of directors, staff
from our partner Communities for a Great Northwest, our Kootenai Forest
Supervisor and Forest Archaeologist, and two officials from our major
sponsor Ford Motor Company. Thankfully, I was also able to bring PJ and all
four children. In the East Room, Secretaries Venneman and Gorton spoke as
did First Lady Bush and Preserve America's Chairman John Nau.

The First Lady then gave autographed copies of a White House book to award
winners in this ceremony and posed for pictures. When the ceremony
concluded, the First Lady stayed for a bit in the Green Room and chatted and
posed for pictures. She was then escorted outside to meet the President and
board a Marine One helicopter waiting to whisk them off to the airport.

For me, however, the biggest event of the day had already happened when the
East Room Ceremony started up. While the East Room ceremony was being
prepared, the four national award winners and the entities that nominated
them were taken to the Oval Office for the official award presentation by
President Bush and First Lady Bush. There were eight of us in total.

Stepping into the Oval Office, each of us was introduced to the President
and Mrs. Bush. We shook hands and participated in small talk. When the
President was told that we were from Libby, Montana, I reminded him that
Marc Racicot is our native son and the President offered his warm thoughts
about Governor Racicot.

I have to tell you, I was blown away by two things upon entering the office.
First, the Oval Office sense of place' is unreal. The President later shared
a story of Russian President Putin entering the room prepared to tackle the
President in a tough negotiation and upon entering the atheist muttered his
first words to the President and they were "Oh, my God." I concurred. I
could feel the history in my bones. Second, the man that inhabits the office
engaged me with a firm handshake and a look that can only be described as
penetrating. Warm, alive, fully engaged, disarmingly penetrating. I was
admittedly concerned about meeting the man. I think all of us have an
inner hope that the most powerful man in our country is worthy of the
responsibility and authority that we bestow upon them through our vote. I
admit that part of me was afraid that I would be let down by the moment -
that the person and the place could not meet the lofty expectations of my
fantasy world. This says nothing about my esteem for President Bush
but just my practical realization that reality may not match my 'dream.'
Once inside the office, President Bush got right down to business and,
standing in front of his desk, handed out the awards one at a time while
posing for photos with the winners and Mrs. Bush.

With the mission accomplished, the President and Mrs. Bush relaxed and
initiated a lengthy, informal conversation about a number of things with our
entire small group. He and the First Lady talked about such things as the
rug in the office. It is traditionally designed by the First Lady to make a
statement about the President, and Mrs. Bush chose a brilliant yellow
sunburst pattern to reflect ‘hope.' President Bush talked about the absolute
need to believe that with hard work and faith in God there is every reason
to start each day in the Oval Office with hope.

He and the First Lady were asked about the impact of the Presidency on their
marriage and, with an arm casually wrapped around Laura, he said that he
thought the place may be hard on weak marriages but that it had the ability
to make strong marriages even stronger and that he was blessed with a
strong one.

When asked what the biggest challenge of the Presidency was, he talked
about the daily frustration of partisan politics. 'This from a politician,' he
said. He said that when he was elected he promised that he would do in DC
what he had done in Texas and that was build alliances and coalitions that
bridged party lines in order to move the nation forward. He had quickly
learned that there are those in the nation's capital that would rather see
the nation dismantled than work together to achieve a common good. That,
he said is a bitter and continuing disappointment.

The President talked about the artwork and other items of interest in the
room. For instance the desk he uses is the one that was given to the U.S.
by Queen Victoria and used by FDR and JFK. In fact FDR had a front panel
added to the desk to cover the mid section because FDR did not want the
country to know he was in a wheelchair. President Bush laughed and said,
"My how things have changed, FDR hid a wheelchair and if I eat a pretzel and
get a tingle in my arm it's front page news around the globe." That little
desk faux front is hinged by the way, and is the door that we all have seen
John-John sticking his head from behind in the famous photo of JFK at work.

The President also noted that much of the artwork in the office is from
Texas or about Texas. He said that it made sense for him to have it in his
office because Texas is part of who he is. He talked about family and place
and faith helping to build the person you end up being and noted that the
Oval Office reflected who he is. He noted that it would be a mistake to come
to the Oval Office and entertain a mission to 'find yourself.' He said that
with all of the pressures and responsibilities that go with the job, you'd
best know who you are when you put your nameplate on the desk in the Oval
Office. He said he knows who he is and now America has had four years to
learn about who he is. If they like what they see, he may have another
four years. If not, then he may be going back to Texas.

After about 30 or 35 minutes, it was time to go. By then we were all relaxed
and I felt as if I had just had an excellent visit with a friend. The
President and First Lady made one more pass down the line of awardees,
shaking hands and offering congratulations. When the President shook my
hand I said, "thank you Mr. President and God bless you and your family."

He was already in motion to the next person in line, but he stopped
abruptly, turned fully back to me, gave me a piercing look, renewed the
vigor of his handshake and said, "Thank you - and God bless you and yours
as well."

On our way out of the office we were to leave by the glass doors on the
west side of the office. I was the last person in the exit line. As I shook
his hand one final time, President Bush said, "I'll be sure to tell Marc
hello and give him your regards." I then did something that surprised even me.
I said to him, "Mr. President, I know you are a busy man and your time is
precious. I also know you to be a man of strong faith and have a favor to
ask you." As he shook my hand he looked me in the eye and said, "Just
name it."

I told him that my step-Mom was at that moment in a hospital in Kalispell,
Montana, having a tumor removed from her skull and it would mean a great
deal to me if he would consider adding her to his prayers that day. He
grabbed me by the arm and took me back toward his desk as he said, "So
that's it. I could tell that something is weighing heavy on your heart
today. I could see it in your eyes. This explains it." From the top drawer
of his desk he retrieved a pen and a note card with his seal on it and
asked, "How do you spell her name" He then jotted a note to her while
discussing the importance of family and the strength of prayer.

When he handed me the card, he asked about the surgery and the prognosis.
I told him we were hoping that it is not a recurrence of an earlier cancer
and that if it is they can get it all with this surgery. He said, "If it'sokay
with you, we'll take care of the prayer right now. Would you pray with me" I
told him yes and he turned to the staff that remained in the office and hand
motioned the folks to step back or leave.

He said, "Bruce and I would like some private time for a prayer." As they
left he turned back to me and took my hands in his. I was prepared to do a
traditional prayer stance - standing with each other with heads bowed.
Instead, he reached for my head with his right hand and pulling gently
forward, he placed my head on his shoulder. With his left arm on my mid
back, he pulled me to him in a prayerful embrace. He started to pray softly.
I started to cry. He continued his prayer for Loretta and for God's perfect
will to be done. I cried some more. My body shook a bit as I cried and he
just held tighter. He closed by asking God's blessing on Loretta and the
family during the coming months. I stepped away from our embrace, wiped
my eyes, swiped at the tears I'd left on his shoulder, and
looked into the eyes of our President. I thanked him as best I could and
told him that me and my family would continue praying for he and his.

As I write this account down and reflect upon what it means, I have to
tell you that all I really know is that his simple act left me humbled and
believing. I so hoped that the man I thought him to be was the man that
he is. I know that our nation needs a man such as this in the Oval Office.

George W. Bush is the real deal. I've read Internet stories about the
President praying with troops in hospitals and other such uplifting
accounts. Each time I read them I hope them to be true and not an Internet
perpetuated myth. This one, I know to be true. I was there. He is real.
He has a pile of incredible stuff on his plate each day - and yet he is tuned
in so well to the here and now that he 'sensed' something heavy on my
heart. He took time out of his life to care, to share, and to seek God's
blessing for my family in a simple man-to-man, father-to-father, son-to-son,
husband-to-husband, Christian-to-Christian prayerful embrace.

He's not what I had hoped he would be. He is, in fact, so very, very much
more.

Link Posted: 9/24/2004 10:09:00 PM EST
why am I not surprised?
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 10:16:15 PM EST

When asked what the biggest challenge of the Presidency was, he talked
about the daily frustration of partisan politics. 'This from a politician,' he
said. He said that when he was elected he promised that he would do in DC
what he had done in Texas and that was build alliances and coalitions that
bridged party lines in order to move the nation forward. He had quickly
learned that there are those in the nation's capital that would rather see
the nation dismantled than work together to achieve a common good. That,
he said is a bitter and continuing disappointment.



No shit. If Vince Foster's suicide note was true, he killed himself because Washington's partisanship was so brutal.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 10:24:52 PM EST
Don't get me wrong when I say this, I am voting for Bush. But, don't you think he plays the religion card a little TOO MUCH. Watch any candidate in the campaigning and election process they miraculously they find some time Sunday mornings for church services wherever they are and make sure there are plenty of cameras around. Most Americans cosider themself religous (attending regularly) or spiritual (ready to profess and argue their beleifs and spirituality but seldom attend)
I myself am agnostic but I respect other beleifs and their rights to have those beleifs so long as they respect my rights to my beleifs. However Bush plays that card because it appeals to his KEY DEMOGRAPHIC. I am Republican by default because currently the Libertarian Party is not the factor I wish it was, as you might of guessed I'm not big on the two party system and I dont feel most of us are well represented. Far Right IDIOTS like Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson do however sway some voters plenty of churches in my area push their congragations to vote a certain way I imagine that is A national trend. I grew up in A Mormon church and Ibeleive they got this part right, THEY STAY OUT OF IT ANYONE WHO GOT UP TO THE PULPIT TO GIVE A CAMPAIGN SPEECH OR RALLY WAS QUICKLY SAT DOWN OR THROWN OUT. However a president saying he thinks the jury is out on evolution BOTHERS ME. Try to see things for what they are otherwise your being exploited or should I say "one of the flock".
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 10:26:02 PM EST
Mattl has a good point.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 10:37:51 PM EST
Damn skippy!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 10:43:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Don't get me wrong when I say this, I am voting for Bush. But, don't you think he plays the religion card a little TOO MUCH. Watch any candidate in the campaigning and election process they miraculously they find some time Sunday mornings for church services wherever they are and make sure there are plenty of cameras around. Most Americans cosider themself religous (attending regularly) or spiritual (ready to profess and argue their beleifs and spirituality but seldom attend)
I myself am agnostic but I respect other beleifs and their rights to have those beleifs so long as they respect my rights to my beleifs. However Bush plays that card because it appeals to his KEY DEMOGRAPHIC. I am Republican by default because currently the Libertarian Party is not the factor I wish it was, as you might of guessed I'm not big on the two party system and I dont feel most of us are well represented. Far Right IDIOTS like Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson do however sway some voters plenty of churches in my area push their congragations to vote a certain way I imagine that is A national trend. I grew up in A Mormon church and Ibeleive they got this part right, THEY STAY OUT OF IT ANYONE WHO GOT UP TO THE PULPIT TO GIVE A CAMPAIGN SPEECH OR RALLY WAS QUICKLY SAT DOWN OR THROWN OUT. However a president saying he thinks the jury is out on evolution BOTHERS ME. Try to see things for what they are otherwise your being exploited or should I say "one of the flock".



I'm an agnostic as well, but one of the things I respect about Bush is his faith. I do not think its an act put on to appeal to fundamentalists. I think its an honest expression of his belief.

I interpet what he did to be an honest expression of love for his fellow man. I can't think of ANY reason to look down upon that.

Link Posted: 9/24/2004 11:54:05 PM EST
I don't look down on him or his beleifs I was merely pointing out a pattern politicians follow and GULLIBLE CATTLE "FLOCK' TO. 'Newsflash' SHEEP ARE PREY ANIMALS first their fleeced then they're slaughtered. I think that sufficiently draws a ironic parrlell, quite laughable. I RESPECT OTHERS BELEIFS AND RIGHTS SO LONG AS THEY RESPECT MINE.

Sorry for the misunderstanding,

Matt
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 4:09:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Don't get me wrong when I say this, I am voting for Bush. But, don't you think he plays the religion card a little TOO MUCH.



No, I don't, and I am a very-close-to-atheist agnostic. His faith is part of who he is and whatever the man is, he is NOT phony. I don't agree with him about everything, but I love him as a person because he is incredibly genuine.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 4:18:14 AM EST
I have long been convinced of his honesty and integrity.

You just hear way too many stories like this not to believe them.

President Bush is one of the few men on Earth that I think that I would take a bullet for.

_Disconnector_
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 4:26:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 4:39:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:49:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Don't get me wrong when I say this, I am voting for Bush. But, don't you think he plays the religion card a little TOO MUCH.



No, I don't, and I am a very-close-to-atheist agnostic. His faith is part of who he is and whatever the man is, he is NOT phony. I don't agree with him about everything, but I love him as a person because he is incredibly genuine.



+1
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 8:14:41 AM EST
He is a good genuine man. He and I went to the same juniuor high in Midland, albeit many years apart.

Mattl. I appreciate your remarks about Christians and believers. It is obvious that you respect others and are tolerant of others as long as they repect you. Speaking for like myself and like minded people (those known to you as idiots, sheep, cattle and the guillable) we think that you lean more toward Atheism, than towards Agnosticism.

So that I am clear on this, you respect people's beliefs as long as they respect yours. Oh, except if they don't believe in Evolution. Am I clear on this???
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 8:20:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Don't get me wrong when I say this, I am voting for Bush. But, don't you think he plays the religion card a little TOO MUCH.



No, I don't, and I am a very-close-to-atheist agnostic. His faith is part of who he is and whatever the man is, he is NOT phony. I don't agree with him about everything, but I love him as a person because he is incredibly genuine.



+1



flip flopper!
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 8:33:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 8:33:55 AM EST by BUCC_Guy]
That was an awesome story...

Think I'm gonna go to church tomorrow


- BG
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 8:42:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Don't get me wrong when I say this, I am voting for Bush. But, don't you think he plays the religion card a little TOO MUCH.



I don't think so. As a Christian it is fairly obvious (of course I could be wrong!) if someone else is truly speaking their beliefs or if they are just faking for their audience. Sort of the same way we can tell that John Kerry is pandering to hunters when he walks around shooting stuff with his shotgun. True gun owners just roll their eyes. Like someone else said, Bill Clinton attending "church" looked pretty staged.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 8:50:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Don't get me wrong when I say this, I am voting for Bush. But, don't you think he plays the religion card a little TOO MUCH.



No, I don't, and I am a very-close-to-atheist agnostic. His faith is part of who he is and whatever the man is, he is NOT phony. I don't agree with him about everything, but I love him as a person because he is incredibly genuine.



Very well put, Rik. I can only imagine that in the coming years, you may lean to the other side of agnosticism.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 8:32:39 PM EST
For now it is listed as "Research in progress. " It'll have no impact on my opinion of Dubya, but it'll be nice if they confirm it.

www.snopes.com/politics/bush/vincent.asp
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 8:34:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
For now it is listed as "Research in progress. " It'll have no impact on my opinion of Dubya, but it'll be nice if they confirm it.

www.snopes.com/politics/bush/vincent.asp



Try here:

www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/v/vincent.htm
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 9:49:19 PM EST
I found ay eslf listening to our local Republican radio station NPR something of the sort you get the point. Well it was speciffically a Catholic based religous program, I AM NOT ATTACKING THE CATOLIC CHURCH OR RELIGION JUST POINTING OUT IRONY ( the evolution thing I think your main attack point on me is futile to argue you think he is genuine you made that clear I will drop it there) YOU HAVE YOUR OPINIONS AND I RESPECT THEM AND I AM ALWAYS INTRIGUED TO HEAR ANOTHER SIDE OF THE STORY, ARGUMENT, THEORY, OR PHILOSOPHY. Now back to the program in question the guest was a doctor of science and devout Catholic. I am unclear of specifics as I missed the start of the program. The topic was the Catholic churches acceptance of advances in science and gradual acceptance of evolution, the guest seemlessly incroarated EVOLUTION AND CREATIONISM by saying "we are truly beginning to understand the gradual process of our creation by god" he also started to talk of gods vision and he got evolution incorparated into that to but I missed how he worded that. I was to busy laughing my arse off at the irony, but it was a happy laugh progress and irony, Iwas happy to hear both. Religion and rational thinking coming together that is progress, before anyone goes postal allow me to elaborate. Throughout history religion has shown little tolerance of science and thinking outside the box or unconventionally. Galileo and DaVinci come immediatley to mind I'm sure I can remember more later but I'm not writing a thesis. Till maybe the mid 1800's it was inconceivable to think things happen (earthquakes, volcanos, extinction or disease and illnesses could be cured medical science in general) without an act of god. So to me its progress, I think religous leaders in the past thought of science as competition or a rational explanation of a occurrance that does not involve the almighty acting. Sciece shows us the natural order of things without the invisible deity in the sky. Howecer you find your happiness, inspiration, comfort, center or exceptance be it God, Allah, meditation or a set of principles or ideals to live by more power to you. It is your right in this country just realize people have differences in beleifs that is also their right, and tolerence is a common idea taught in all faiths and practices, discuss your points and beleifs don't attack because of them.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 9:59:38 PM EST
NPR is a Republican radio station? I think you're confused.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 10:09:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mattl:
I found ay eslf listening to our local Republican radio station NPR something of the sort you get the point. Well it was speciffically a Catholic based religous program, I AM NOT ATTACKING THE CATOLIC CHURCH OR RELIGION JUST POINTING OUT IRONY ( the evolution thing I think your main attack point on me is futile to argue you think he is genuine you made that clear I will drop it there) YOU HAVE YOUR OPINIONS AND I RESPECT THEM AND I AM ALWAYS INTRIGUED TO HEAR ANOTHER SIDE OF THE STORY, ARGUMENT, THEORY, OR PHILOSOPHY. Now back to the program in question the guest was a doctor of science and devout Catholic. I am unclear of specifics as I missed the start of the program. The topic was the Catholic churches acceptance of advances in science and gradual acceptance of evolution, the guest seemlessly incroarated EVOLUTION AND CREATIONISM by saying "we are truly beginning to understand the gradual process of our creation by god" he also started to talk of gods vision and he got evolution incorparated into that to but I missed how he worded that. I was to busy laughing my arse off at the irony, but it was a happy laugh progress and irony, Iwas happy to hear both. Religion and rational thinking coming together that is progress, before anyone goes postal allow me to elaborate. Throughout history religion has shown little tolerance of science and thinking outside the box or unconventionally. Galileo and DaVinci come immediatley to mind I'm sure I can remember more later but I'm not writing a thesis. Till maybe the mid 1800's it was inconceivable to think things happen (earthquakes, volcanos, extinction or disease and illnesses could be cured medical science in general) without an act of god. So to me its progress, I think religous leaders in the past thought of science as competition or a rational explanation of a occurrance that does not involve the almighty acting. Sciece shows us the natural order of things without the invisible deity in the sky. Howecer you find your happiness, inspiration, comfort, center or exceptance be it God, Allah, meditation or a set of principles or ideals to live by more power to you. It is your right in this country just realize people have differences in beleifs that is also their right, and tolerence is a common idea taught in all faiths and practices, discuss your points and beleifs don't attack because of them.



Mattl, are you in the wrong thread? I looked and didn't see anyone mentioning those things. *confused*
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 10:10:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By Mattl:
I found ay eslf listening to our local Republican radio station NPR something of the sort you get the point. Well it was speciffically a Catholic based religous program, I AM NOT ATTACKING THE CATOLIC CHURCH OR RELIGION JUST POINTING OUT IRONY ( the evolution thing I think your main attack point on me is futile to argue you think he is genuine you made that clear I will drop it there) YOU HAVE YOUR OPINIONS AND I RESPECT THEM AND I AM ALWAYS INTRIGUED TO HEAR ANOTHER SIDE OF THE STORY, ARGUMENT, THEORY, OR PHILOSOPHY. Now back to the program in question the guest was a doctor of science and devout Catholic. I am unclear of specifics as I missed the start of the program. The topic was the Catholic churches acceptance of advances in science and gradual acceptance of evolution, the guest seemlessly incroarated EVOLUTION AND CREATIONISM by saying "we are truly beginning to understand the gradual process of our creation by god" he also started to talk of gods vision and he got evolution incorparated into that to but I missed how he worded that. I was to busy laughing my arse off at the irony, but it was a happy laugh progress and irony, Iwas happy to hear both. Religion and rational thinking coming together that is progress, before anyone goes postal allow me to elaborate. Throughout history religion has shown little tolerance of science and thinking outside the box or unconventionally. Galileo and DaVinci come immediatley to mind I'm sure I can remember more later but I'm not writing a thesis. Till maybe the mid 1800's it was inconceivable to think things happen (earthquakes, volcanos, extinction or disease and illnesses could be cured medical science in general) without an act of god. So to me its progress, I think religous leaders in the past thought of science as competition or a rational explanation of a occurrance that does not involve the almighty acting. Sciece shows us the natural order of things without the invisible deity in the sky. Howecer you find your happiness, inspiration, comfort, center or exceptance be it God, Allah, meditation or a set of principles or ideals to live by more power to you. It is your right in this country just realize people have differences in beleifs that is also their right, and tolerence is a common idea taught in all faiths and practices, discuss your points and beleifs don't attack because of them.



Mattl, are you in the wrong thread? I looked and didn't see anyone mentioning those things. *confused*



Yeah...
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 1:01:13 AM EST
Hats off to my Commander in Chief!
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 1:11:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 1:20:21 AM EST by M4C]
George Bush is a leader among leaders.
He has a way of carrying on unapologetically that inspires confidence in those who know he is righteous and fear in those who would do us harm.
He is a man of decision and action - qualities that, when applied for the good of the people he leads, are exceedingly rare on this troubled earth.

For anyone who still questions this man's sincerity and trustworthiness, take a look around. This is a nation where a substantial portion of it's population can be characterized as a spoiled rotten bunch who have an extreme aversion to any conventions or morals. They want to be given what they want and be told what they want to hear - and they want it now. They also want to be told what to do and how to think. But George Bush is not the man that exploits the feeble-minded for his own gain, unlike the typical politician. It is a very strong temptation to resist. Again, Mr. Bush isn't "playing" his part right for them; he isn't a playboy, a womanizer, an unapologetic adulterer, has no contempt for the rule of law like "us" -- he's just too clean so therefore he is a threat to "our" lifestyle!
I guess Clinton's "presidency" was one hard act to follow.
That is why Mr. Bush is the focus of so much hate and vitriol - from the media, to politics, the law profession, unions, university professors, film and recording industry, Hollywood windbags, terrorists [and their appeasers], convicts and street thugs alike - all of whom [to one degree or another] benefit and make a good paycheck from the effects social unrest and lawlessness.

Much of the Bush administration's rabid opposition comes from outside the USA just as much as from within. I don't know which is worse. It would be a good thing to take a hard look at exactly who they are and ask yourself if they represent your interests as a free American.

BTW, the Clintons' many televised PR visits to church turned my stomach too - and I'm not really a chuch-going person. It was so blatanly obvious these clowns are phoney. Oh well...


Link Posted: 9/26/2004 1:31:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 1:32:08 AM EST by KA3B]

President Bush poses for a photo taken by one of 292 soldiers headed for Kuwait — and ultimately Iraq — at Bangor International Airport in Maine on Thursday. Bush had already boarded Air Force One, but deplaned so he could greet the troops during their refueling stop in Bangor. The soldiers are with the 414th Transportation Battalion, based in South Carolina; the 30th Area Support Group, North Carolina; and the 230th Area Support Group, Tennessee. Bush was in Bangor to attend a campaign rally.


Let's see, getting off a plane to meet soldiers or sitting on an active taxi-way getting a haircut.

You make the call.....
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 1:55:26 AM EST

the atheist muttered


Sorry, Putin is a Christian. I'll try to find a link to the story of how he became a Christian as a result of a fire at his home while he was in the KGB.

He just doesn't say much about it, says that it is his private affair.

wganz

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 2:18:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mattl:
I found ay eslf listening to our local Republican radio station NPR something of the sort you get the point. Well it was speciffically a Catholic based religous program, I AM NOT ATTACKING THE CATOLIC CHURCH OR RELIGION JUST POINTING OUT IRONY ( the evolution thing I think your main attack point on me is futile to argue you think he is genuine you made that clear I will drop it there) YOU HAVE YOUR OPINIONS AND I RESPECT THEM AND I AM ALWAYS INTRIGUED TO HEAR ANOTHER SIDE OF THE STORY, ARGUMENT, THEORY, OR PHILOSOPHY. Now back to the program in question the guest was a doctor of science and devout Catholic. I am unclear of specifics as I missed the start of the program. The topic was the Catholic churches acceptance of advances in science and gradual acceptance of evolution, the guest seemlessly incroarated EVOLUTION AND CREATIONISM by saying "we are truly beginning to understand the gradual process of our creation by god" he also started to talk of gods vision and he got evolution incorparated into that to but I missed how he worded that. I was to busy laughing my arse off at the irony, but it was a happy laugh progress and irony, Iwas happy to hear both. Religion and rational thinking coming together that is progress, before anyone goes postal allow me to elaborate. Throughout history religion has shown little tolerance of science and thinking outside the box or unconventionally. Galileo and DaVinci come immediatley to mind I'm sure I can remember more later but I'm not writing a thesis. Till maybe the mid 1800's it was inconceivable to think things happen (earthquakes, volcanos, extinction or disease and illnesses could be cured medical science in general) without an act of god. So to me its progress, I think religous leaders in the past thought of science as competition or a rational explanation of a occurrance that does not involve the almighty acting. Sciece shows us the natural order of things without the invisible deity in the sky. Howecer you find your happiness, inspiration, comfort, center or exceptance be it God, Allah, meditation or a set of principles or ideals to live by more power to you. It is your right in this country just realize people have differences in beleifs that is also their right, and tolerence is a common idea taught in all faiths and practices, discuss your points and beleifs don't attack because of them.



Try "The Science of God" and "Darwin's Black Box" for more info. And listen to the call letters of the stations a little better because I don't believe there is an NPR station that broadcasts what Iwould call Republican ideas unless they could twist/ridicule them while doing so.


Rip
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 2:40:16 AM EST
I checked this story out on SNOPES. They show the status of their investigation as INCOMPLETE:

www.snopes.com/politics/bush/vincent.asp

TruthorFiction.com says that it is TRUE

upload.truthorfiction.com/rumors/v/vincent.htm

FWIW.

Hope the story is 100% true and EVERYONE gets to read it.

Do you think, though, that it would matter to those ABB folks? They are blinded by so much hate (not a very good Christian value).

To chime in on the thought about Bush using his faith for political gain, I say "Hog wash!!". This is the man that he is. Hard to fake it. Just look at the Clintons...easy to tell they were faking, and I hope they get their due in Hell someday for it. (That's not a very Christian thought either, was it?) Well, I'm headed off to church, I'll pray that I may be a better person.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:37:05 AM EST
I heard much the same sort of story from a friend who met him at the White House about a year ago with her dad. He is a retired Marine Colonel. As the President and Mrs. Bush were going through the greeting line after deplaning off of Marine One on the White House lawn, the President suddenly stopped when he saw that the colonel was wearing a USMC tie pin. Mr. Bush asked him if he was Marine. When the man answered in the AFFIRMATIVE, SIR!, Mr. Bush thanked him for his service to our country and asked his daughter if she would like to take a photo, which of course she did...of her dad and the President of the United States shaking hands.

She also said that Miz Bush is a very beautiful and gracious person in real life.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:55:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
His faith is part of who he is and whatever the man is, he is NOT phony. I don't agree with him about everything, but I love him as a person because he is incredibly genuine.


Pretty close to my sentiments as well.
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