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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/13/2005 8:49:11 AM EDT
FOR WHAT???

Federal deisaster relief faster than any previous huricane? urging the dumbass gov and mayor to get the people outta dodge before the storm?

Strikes me as a really DUMB thing to say.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:50:30 AM EDT
he's ultimately responsible for everything that occurs on his watch.

Apparently he's man enough to realize that, even if some are not.

Good for him.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:51:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:
he's ultimately responsible for everything that occurs on his watch.

Apparently he's man enough to realize that, even if some are not.

Good for him.



Yes, Bush used the super secret Haliburton-disaster machine to create Katrina...
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:52:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:53:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 8:53:51 AM EDT by DoubleFeed]
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:53:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By p331083:

Originally Posted By Dino:
he's ultimately responsible for everything that occurs on his watch.

Apparently he's man enough to realize that, even if some are not.

Good for him.



Yes, Bush used the super secret Haliburton-disaster machine to create Katrina...



another idiot who doesn't understand what it means to be a leader

Fault and responsibility are not the same thing. GWB understands that even if you are incapable.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:55:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 8:56:04 AM EDT by p331083]

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By p331083:

Originally Posted By Dino:
he's ultimately responsible for everything that occurs on his watch.

Apparently he's man enough to realize that, even if some are not.

Good for him.



Yes, Bush used the super secret Haliburton-disaster machine to create Katrina...



another idiot who doesn't understand what it means to be a leader

Fault and responsibility are not the same thing. GWB understands that even if you are incapable.



That is what they want you to think.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:56:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By Dino:
he's ultimately responsible for everything that occurs on his watch.

Apparently he's man enough to realize that, even if some are not.

Good for him.


I'm not sure I agree with that. What does this do for Nagin and Blanco? Looks like they are blameless now.
President Bush does not comprise the entirety of all levels of government.



Thats the downside, but its pretty apparent neither of them were going to take responsibility, so Bush did. He'll turn it to his political advantage, he may not be a great public speaker but he's a damn good politician.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:56:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
I'm not sure I agree with that. What does this do for Nagin and Blanco? Looks like they are blameless now.
President Bush does not comprise the entirety of all levels of government.



My sentiments exactly. This statement has exculpated the morons who really fucked up.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:56:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By p331083:

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By p331083:

Originally Posted By Dino:
he's ultimately responsible for everything that occurs on his watch.

Apparently he's man enough to realize that, even if some are not.

Good for him.



Yes, Bush used the super secret Haliburton-disaster machine to create Katrina...



another idiot who doesn't understand what it means to be a leader

Fault and responsibility are not the same thing. GWB understands that even if you are incapable.



That is what they want you to think.



... ok i'll bite

who is "they"

I'm hoping its no the Illuminati or the Greys...

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:56:54 AM EDT
Bwahahaha! When NO is rebuilt, and the place is booming, Nagin, Blanco, and Landreau won't be able to say they did it because President Bush already did. Brilliant! Yup, it doesn't look like much on the face but down the road when people look back, it will all read in Bush's favor. A bitch slap to the Dems, pure and simple.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:57:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:
He'll turn it to his political advantage




How do ya suppose he'll do that??
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:57:54 AM EDT

"Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government and to the extent the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility,"


That little bit of blood will send the sharks into a frenzy.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:58:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CS223:
Bwahahaha! When NO is rebuilt, and the place is booming, Nagin, Blanco, and Landreau won't be able to say they did it because President Bush already did. Brilliant! Yup, it doesn't look like much on the face but down the road when people look back, it will all read in Bush's favor. A bitch slap to the Dems, pure and simple.



and as more and more facts show that the response was the best in modern history and every one of the delays was at the state level, he will look even better
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:58:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CS223:
A bitch slap to the Dems, pure and simple.



Take off your rose colored glasses.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:58:43 AM EDT
Although I agree that the hurricane mismanagement wasn't exactly his fault, it is his responsibility. Just

like in the military, a good officer is responsible for everything his subordinates do or don't do.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:59:06 AM EDT
He doesn't gain a thing by stating that.
I believe he did a lot right.
It makes it look as though he did everything wrong and he knows it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:59:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 9:00:47 AM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By Scottman:

Strikes me as a really DUMB thing to say.



Actually its politically brilliant.

Apologizing for something MOST Americans know you aren't responsible for makes you seem humble, sensitive, caring, and responsible.

And strongly contrasts the people who ARE actually responsible.



Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:00:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

"Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government and to the extent the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility,"


That little bit of blood will send the sharks into a frenzy.




Yes, and "to the extent" will be lost.
Headline: Bush admits "federal government didn't fully do its job, I take responsibility."

Blanco? Nagin?? Who??
Bush's fault.

Stupid.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:01:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By p331083:

Originally Posted By Dino:
he's ultimately responsible for everything that occurs on his watch.

Apparently he's man enough to realize that, even if some are not.

Good for him.



Yes, Bush Rove used the super secret Haliburton-disaster machine to create Katrina...



fixed it for ya
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:01:57 AM EDT
The problem is that the people who really are the problem, from the lazy-ass welfare queens to some U.S. Senators, to the news media, are simply shouting, "AHA!!!!! YES, YOU IS DA PROBLEM!!!"

They have no honor. It has no effect that they should also step up and accept their portions of blame and we all move on. They got what they wanted. Bush could have saved his breath because no one will reciprocate to move us beyond this mess.

It amazes me how all these people bitch and moan about the response and call, basically, for everyone to drop what they ARE doing and "investigate". The whole goddamn thing is ridiculous. Who thought bin Laden was our worst enemy? Hell, we are our own worst enemy.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:02:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:03:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By Dino:
he's ultimately responsible for everything that occurs on his watch.

Apparently he's man enough to realize that, even if some are not.

Good for him.


I'm not sure I agree with that. What does this do for Nagin and Blanco? Looks like they are blameless now.
President Bush does not comprise the entirety of all levels of government.



I think he said he takes responsibility for the Federal Response. He played the game according to the rules and is probably angered at the delays at the state/local level. Unfortunately, the feds will probably be parachuting in PRIOR to any future natural disasters if they can, regardless of state/local and/or federal "rules". I'm sure I don't like this, but I'm also pretty certain that will be the result.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:03:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By Scottman:

Strikes me as a really DUMB thing to say.



Actually its politically brilliant.

Apologizing for something MOST Americans know you aren't responsible for makes you seem humble, sensitive, caring, and responsible.

And strongly contrasts the people who ARE actually responsible.






Unfortunately a good 90% of the electorate has been dumbed down enough to miss that nuance. Most who believed it WASN'T Bush's fault will read the headline and say, "Damn, I guess it was his fault. I was wrong."
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:09:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By Scottman:

Strikes me as a really DUMB thing to say.



Actually its politically brilliant.

Apologizing for something MOST Americans know you aren't responsible for makes you seem humble, sensitive, caring, and responsible.

And strongly contrasts the people who ARE actually responsible.







+1.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:16:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Scottman:

Originally Posted By CS223:
A bitch slap to the Dems, pure and simple.



Take off your rose colored glasses.





Next time you get pulled over by the cops, try telling the truth instead of playing dumb and see where it gets you. You'll understand the strategy better.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:17:13 AM EDT
This was not Bush's fault, nor is he responsible for it. A natural disaster happeneded to a city thats been at risk for years...no ones fault. People were urged to evacualte...most did some didn't. Those that couldn't, nor didn't want to evalcuate were screwed. The roughians left behind acted like uncivilized mauraders. Where is the fault? Its life and the things that go on with life. The government isn't responsible to avert all loss of life, nor is it responsible to insure that everyone uses good judgement.

A good leader accepts responsibility when they are at fault, not when popular culture demands that someone is accountable. The governor and mayor are not part of the cabinet and Bush has no real authority to make them do anything. This is life, and sometimes life is pretty crappy. Its no ones fault, it is what it is...and I grow tierd of people always expecting life to be perfect and fair. Unfortunately, as it has always been and will always be, the poor are more often than not, more affected by disasters than the well to do. Why do you think people try to climb their way out of the bottom rungs of the socioeconomic ladder.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:19:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 4GodandCountry:
Although I agree that the hurricane mismanagement wasn't exactly his fault, it is his responsibility. Just

like in the military, a good officer is responsible for everything his subordinates do or don't do.



+1 that was my point
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:20:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sloth:
This was not Bush's fault, nor is he responsible for it. A natural disaster happeneded to a city thats been at risk for years...no ones fault. People were urged to evacualte...most did some didn't. Those that couldn't, nor didn't want to evalcuate were screwed. The roughians left behind acted like uncivilized mauraders. Where is the fault? Its life and the things that go on with life. The government isn't responsible to avert all loss of life, nor is it responsible to insure that everyone uses good judgement.

A good leader accepts responsibility when they are at fault, not when popular culture demands that someone is accountable. The governor and mayor are not part of the cabinet and Bush has no real authority to make them do anything. This is life, and sometimes life is pretty crappy. Its no ones fault, it is what it is...and I grow tierd of people always expecting life to be perfect and fair. Unfortunately, as it has always been and will always be, the poor are more often than not, more affected by disasters than the well to do. Why do you think people try to climb their way out of the bottom rungs of the socioeconomic ladder.




he didn't say he was responsible for the hurricane. he said he was responsible for the Federal response.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:26:25 AM EDT
Bad precedent. Just affirms to so many ignorants that Uncle Sugar must do everything down to wiping your ass. Uncle Suger will respond by taking away more of your rights and states rights.

Will lead to more socialism and federal control. Just what we absolutely do not want.

Solution: Get rid of the large percentage of ignorants which now represent a too large and unresistable voting block for politicians to pander to. Stop letting them in. Stop them from breeding. Take the vote away from them. Or start over someplace else.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:29:42 AM EDT
though i dont balme bush and feel many things are wrong at the local level, i do feel those that bush appointed..hsd, fema, etc. sould have been more on top of readiness and preparation for something like this. the fact that the locals were nowhere near ready should have been noticed and dealt with before the storm. long before.

if you made a list of the top ten or so likely natural disasters to hit the us. NO/Hurricane would likley have been up there. yet it seems as if no one really thought through the situation or had planned or even taken drills serioulsy.

maybe gwbs biggest fault is that he put too much trust in those he appointed to excercise good judgement. no matter how you spin or look at it, hsd/fema was not prepared for this and those running the organization have no excuse.

ceratinly not everything can be planned for, but there were so many problems, it seems like a half assed planning effort has been in place for years.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:36:04 AM EDT
Words you'd never hear out of a Democrat's lips. Makes the Dems look like the petty, whining, blame-shifting jackasses that they are. At least to reasonable people. Left-wing morons need not apply.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:46:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
Unfortunately a good 90% of the electorate has been dumbed down enough to miss that nuance. Most who believed it WASN'T Bush's fault will read the headline and say, "Damn, I guess it was his fault. I was wrong."



Yes, some poeple are too dumb to come in out of the rain.

But I saw a poll that said either 70% or 90% of the nation knows Bush did nothing wrong.

The other 10-30% you can't do ANYTHING with. But for the 70%+, Bush will come out smelling like a rose.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:48:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 9:50:15 AM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By Scottman:

Strikes me as a really DUMB thing to say.



Actually its politically brilliant.

Apologizing for something MOST Americans know you aren't responsible for makes you seem humble, sensitive, caring, and responsible.

And strongly contrasts the people who ARE actually responsible.




Yes it is and when the White house is asked now that the President has taken responsibility what would he have done differently… they can place blame where it really lies… for instance a answer might be… I would have federalize the response before the storm hit it is now clear State and local officials failed to execute their own disaster plans.

Taking responsibility allows one to focus blame... and set the agenda on where that blame is assigned it will take a couple of weeks for this to become apparent.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:48:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By sloth:
This was not Bush's fault, nor is he responsible for it. A natural disaster happeneded to a city thats been at risk for years...no ones fault. People were urged to evacualte...most did some didn't. Those that couldn't, nor didn't want to evalcuate were screwed. The roughians left behind acted like uncivilized mauraders. Where is the fault? Its life and the things that go on with life. The government isn't responsible to avert all loss of life, nor is it responsible to insure that everyone uses good judgement.

A good leader accepts responsibility when they are at fault, not when popular culture demands that someone is accountable. The governor and mayor are not part of the cabinet and Bush has no real authority to make them do anything. This is life, and sometimes life is pretty crappy. Its no ones fault, it is what it is...and I grow tierd of people always expecting life to be perfect and fair. Unfortunately, as it has always been and will always be, the poor are more often than not, more affected by disasters than the well to do. Why do you think people try to climb their way out of the bottom rungs of the socioeconomic ladder.




he didn't say he was responsible for the hurricane. he said he was responsible for the Federal response.



Which I think (obviously not knowing all the tiny details) was as timely and appropriate as ever. However, that response is triggered by the City, County and State. This is within the confines of the laws of the United States.

Bush is NOT responsible for the glaring failures of the elected officials at the state level and below. FEMA had some problems dealing with the worst natural disaster of, at least, modern times. Bush fired the FEMA head and we're moving on. I still see nothing he should apologize for.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:49:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
Unfortunately a good 90% of the electorate has been dumbed down enough to miss that nuance. Most who believed it WASN'T Bush's fault will read the headline and say, "Damn, I guess it was his fault. I was wrong."



Yes, some poeple are too dumb to come in out of the rain.

But I saw a poll that said either 70% or 90% of the nation knows Bush did nothing wrong.

The other 10-30% you can't do ANYTHING with. But for the 70%+, Bush will come out smelling like a rose.




I hope you're right. Of course the media will certainly try to beat that down, and ask the question in different ways, to get that rate down to at least 50%.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:51:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By p331083:

Originally Posted By Dino:
he's ultimately responsible for everything that occurs on his watch.

Apparently he's man enough to realize that, even if some are not.

Good for him.



Yes, Bush used the super secret Haliburton-disaster machine to create Katrina...



another idiot who doesn't understand what it means to be a leader

Fault and responsibility are not the same thing. GWB understands that even if you are incapable.




Another idiot who doesn't understand what states' rights and responsibilities are.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:52:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
Bush is NOT responsible for the glaring failures of the elected officials at the state level and below. FEMA had some problems dealing with the worst natural disaster of, at least, modern times. Bush fired the FEMA head and we're moving on. I still see nothing he should apologize for.



We're wrassling with teh difference between perception and reality.

In reality, youa re 1000% right. THe gov and the mayor screwed the pooch here. If it was Bush's responsibility, why even have a gov and mayor?

But perception IS reality. If people perceive Bush taking responsibility / leadership in the situation, while the gov and mayor falling all over themselves to blame shift and weasel around, Bush looks good. And they look like clowns.

Bush's comments are a political / perception move, and have no base in reality.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:53:20 AM EDT
So here's a twist on the logic, maybe:

Guns are inanimate objects and cannot, of their own free will, injure a human. However, certain segments of the population and media, similar to the ones screaming BLAME BUSH on Katrina, say that guns cause crime, injury, death, homeless children.

Bush's angle, to me, would be to admit that guns do cause all these things in an effort to take the moral high road, if you will. Am I missing something? What would the result of that be.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:53:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By Scottman:

Strikes me as a really DUMB thing to say.



Actually its politically brilliant.

Apologizing for something MOST Americans know you aren't responsible for makes you seem humble, sensitive, caring, and responsible.

And strongly contrasts the people who ARE actually responsible.



In theory, yes, but I disagree with the assertion that most Americans are smart enough to know that Bush isn't responsible. Based on my experience, most Americans are fucking idiots.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:57:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fizassist:

Another idiot who doesn't understand what states' rights and responsibilities are.



I think we're all in agreement it was the gov / mayors JOB to take care of it.

Bush's comments are purely political.

And brilliant.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:00:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 10:01:10 AM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
Bush is NOT responsible for the glaring failures of the elected officials at the state level and below. FEMA had some problems dealing with the worst natural disaster of, at least, modern times. Bush fired the FEMA head and we're moving on. I still see nothing he should apologize for.



We're wrassling with teh difference between perception and reality.

In reality, youa re 1000% right. THe gov and the mayor screwed the pooch here. If it was Bush's responsibility, why even have a gov and mayor?

But perception IS reality. If people perceive Bush taking responsibility / leadership in the situation, while the gov and mayor falling all over themselves to blame shift and weasel around, Bush looks good. And they look like clowns.

Bush's comments are a political / perception move, and have no base in reality.




Yes …

All the President has to say at some point is something like…

Of course I am responsible I should have stepped in and overrode the incompetent Mayor and Governor who screwed this all up. I fucked up and trusted they could do there jobs.

Once this starts to happen perception and reality start to come back together or at least closer together.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:00:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 10:25:11 AM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By fizassist:
In theory, yes, but I disagree with the assertion that most Americans are smart enough to know that Bush isn't responsible. Based on my experience, most Americans are fucking idiots.



Bush's comments TAKE ADVANTAGE of that.

Most of these idiots will say "Wow - he took repsonsibility. He must be a good guy."

They'll identify with him. LIKE him. Its teh old CLintonian "quivering lip" that made Clintoon a folk hero to the sheeple.

Said it BEFORE Bush was ever elected - he's the Republican Clinton, without the moral deficiencies.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:17:23 AM EDT
I need to go back to the Heineken looter thread. Anything else makes my ulcers bleed too much anymore. I hope Bush knows what he's doing.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:25:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
I need to go back to the Heineken looter thread. Anything else makes my ulcers bleed too much anymore. I hope Bush knows what he's doing.



+1
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 12:32:25 PM EDT
Actually its politically brilliant.

Apologizing for something MOST Americans know you aren't responsible for makes you seem humble, sensitive, caring, and responsible.

And strongly contrasts the people who ARE actually responsible.



Yes, exactly. And it makes Gov. Blanco, Mayor Nagin, Mary Landreau all look like little yapping dogs. And the clowns... Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton in there playing the race card. These people are Johnny One Note's... "It's Bush's fault!!!" "Just another example of whitey keepin' the black man down." People have heard this crap every time anything happens, and are tired of them. These leftists become irrelevent.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 12:35:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Scottman:
Headline: Bush admits "federal government didn't fully do its job, I take responsibility."

Blanco? Nagin?? Who??
Bush's fault.

Stupid.

Yep.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 12:49:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 4GodandCountry:
Although I agree that the hurricane mismanagement wasn't exactly his fault, it is his responsibility. Just

like in the military, a good officer is responsible for everything his subordinates do or don't do.



This is nothing like the military. The governor and the mayor are not under the President. They are not in his chain of command.

States are largely autonomous and the prez was prevented from doing alot of things without the approval first from the governor.

Most countries are president>other politicians>citizens

The US, by design, is the opposite: people>government>president.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 1:05:00 PM EDT
This thread is misleading.

This is the FULL quote -

"To the extent teh Federal gov't didn't fulfill its responsibility, I take responsibility."

Well, it AIN'T the Feds responsibility to conduct disaster preparedness for every city in America.

SO what Bush said is 100% correct.

But then, we got Arfcommers too stupid to understand the English language. Like "IF they put an AWB renewal on my desk, I'll sign it" knowing full well they wouldn't.

Bush is the Repub Clinton (without the sexcapades) I'm not saying you gotta like him, but at least act smart enuf to see what is obviously Bush's MO.


Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:16:38 AM EDT
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