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Posted: 1/17/2013 7:25:49 PM EDT
Apart from being too fucking expensive some of them seem pretty cool like the TAVOR & FS2000.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:27:55 PM EDT
Really hard to argue with the size of the package compared to even an SBR, and no stamp required, plus full length barrel for full horsepower.
You might want to have a look at a Steyr, if they are to be had.
Moon
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:28:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2013 7:29:03 PM EDT by Silver_Surfer]
FS2000 reallly catches my fancy..............................................................................being a lefty

The plastic rails turnned me off thoe
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:28:55 PM EDT
I finally picked up a AUG last summer because it's such a sexy bitch. Just dropped coin for a 16" BBL, it is a handy little thing and shoots far better then I expected.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:31:52 PM EDT
A friend has an FS2000, I'd lkke it alright if it could use mags other than USGI, he did something to the trigger and it isn't bad. I had an AUG until about 1995, it was short & handy, but the donut reticle sucked, and the trigger was even worse.

They aren't anywhere near as ergonomic & quick to change mags as an AR, but they have a place. If you could have a really nice trigger in one, and the controls were as ergonomic as the AR I'd love them.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:33:41 PM EDT
I have an MSAR STG 556 E4 that I love, short, accurate, almost no recoil, and takes standard AR mags (including Pmags), what's not to love.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:34:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:34:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2013 7:35:25 PM EDT by RDTCU]
My only (functional) bullpup is my RFB. Where else will you get 20rd of semi .308 in such a small package?



Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:35:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R_Fury:
I have an MSAR STG 556 E4 that I love, short, accurate, almost no recoil, and takes standard AR mags (including Pmags), what's not to love.

No reliability problems?
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:36:12 PM EDT
Silver Not all come with plastic rails. My father's is metal it came that way i believe but also Fn sells a tactical fore-end thats aluminum.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:36:33 PM EDT
gay
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:37:19 PM EDT
OP nailed it. I'd have a couple if the prices were on par with an AR with similar features (16" barrel, etc.) Same reason I don't have SCAR17 or a Masada (whatever Remington/Bushmaster renamed it anyway...)
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:37:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By saigamanTX:

Originally Posted By R_Fury:
I have an MSAR STG 556 E4 that I love, short, accurate, almost no recoil, and takes standard AR mags (including Pmags), what's not to love.

No reliability problems?


When I first got it, it did not like anything but p mag, sent it in and they replaced the mag release, not a problem since. Loves steel cased ammo.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:37:39 PM EDT
My MSAR takes proprietary mags, but it's gone bang every damn time I've shot it.
The trigger isn't bad, and I can live with the optic.
Moon
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:37:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2013 7:37:59 PM EDT by BlueJames]
Sick, my next gun
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:38:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
gay


We all know you hate bullpups because you're uncoordinated and can't figure out what to do with your hands...
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:38:22 PM EDT
not worth the coin.
If you are door kicking or doing PSD out of vehicles, they have some validity.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:39:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Silver_Surfer:
FS2000 reallly catches my fancy..............................................................................being a lefty

The plastic rails turnned me off thoe

The rails are metal.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:40:07 PM EDT


I have never, ever had the desire to own one, until I saw the Tavor.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:40:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Vault_Boy:
A friend has an FS2000, I'd lkke it alright if it could use mags other than USGI, he did something to the trigger and it isn't bad. I had an AUG until about 1995, it was short & handy, but the donut reticle sucked, and the trigger was even worse.

They aren't anywhere near as ergonomic & quick to change mags as an AR, but they have a place. If you could have a really nice trigger in one, and the controls were as ergonomic as the AR I'd love them.


E-lander mags work to as far as i can tell. Havent used them alot just a few times though.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:40:12 PM EDT
All the energy of a decent round is wasted as noise. The more noise it makes, the more energy escaped that didn't push the bullet.

Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:41:36 PM EDT
Last fall I was giving serious thought to selling my beloved Israeli light-barrel FAL and replacing it with a "Tactical Tuna" aka FS2000. I couldn't quite work myself up to actually do it, and I kinda' regret it now. Being a lefty bullpup-lover I was eyeballing the MSAR last summer but I heard less-than-stellar things about it and its reliability.


It's a moot point now, I guess.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:43:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
gay

If I baby poop painted it would you like it then?
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:44:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2013 7:44:56 PM EDT by RDTCU]
Originally Posted By VBC:
All the energy of a decent round is wasted as noise. The more noise it makes, the more energy escaped that didn't push the bullet.



Do you even know what you're saying? Bullpups have much longer barrels than their standard counterparts of similar size.

My RFB is 27" long and has an 18" barrel.
My target .308 AR is a good 10-12" longer at normal settings and only has a 16" barrel.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:44:12 PM EDT
i love my MSAR augs. great guns. small as hell. !

16" aug, compared to a 10" sbr

Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:44:52 PM EDT
I really like the idea of a bullpup, and was seriously considering the FS2000 the last time I walked into a gunshow. I held one, and it just felt...clunky, I guess. I couldn't justify spending the money on it given how awkward it felt just playing around with it at the show.

I feel like there's a design out there, or will be someday, that I'm going to finally run across and fall in love with. It just hasn't happened yet.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:45:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By VBC:
All the energy of a decent round is wasted as noise. The more noise it makes, the more energy escaped that didn't push the bullet.



Do you even know what you're saying? Bullpups have much longer barrels than their standard counterparts of similar size.

My RFB is 27" long and has an 18" barrel.
My target .308 AR is a good 10-12" longer and only has a 16" barrel.


I actually did after I posted that. I realized the concept of a bullpup rifle is to have the end of the rifle barrel all the way back to your shoulder, instead of in front of your eye, but what I said is still true.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:45:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VBC:
All the energy of a decent round is wasted as noise. The more noise it makes, the more energy escaped that didn't push the bullet.



? My AUG with a 20" barrel is shorter then my AR is with a 16" barrel. [With stock extended in the position I use]
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:45:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Polupharmakos:
I really like the idea of a bullpup, and was seriously considering the FS2000 the last time I walked into a gunshow. I held one, and it just felt...clunky, I guess. I couldn't justify spending the money on it given how awkward it felt just playing around with it at the show.

I feel like there's a design out there, or will be someday, that I'm going to finally run across and fall in love with. It just hasn't happened yet.


The F2000 is a fat fish of a gun The AUG pattern rifles are slimmer, as is the Tavor.

Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:47:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By VBC:
All the energy of a decent round is wasted as noise. The more noise it makes, the more energy escaped that didn't push the bullet.



? My AUG with a 20" barrel is shorter then my AR is with a 16" barrel. [With stock extended in the position I use]


I know, I messed my shit all up.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:48:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VBC:
All the energy of a decent round is wasted as noise. The more noise it makes, the more energy escaped that didn't push the bullet.



What??

So my 16" barrel MSAR has less muzzle velocity than my 16" barrel AR?
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:50:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R_Fury:
Originally Posted By VBC:
All the energy of a decent round is wasted as noise. The more noise it makes, the more energy escaped that didn't push the bullet.



What??

So my 16" barrel MSAR has less muzzle velocity than my 16" barrel AR?

Yes. Because of noise. It's science.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:50:52 PM EDT
I have FN and MSAR bullpups. I like 'em,some don't. Maybe I just got a really good one but my STG is an exceptionally well made gun and I've had good luck with it. I only have about 150 rounds through the FN,no knocks on the gun just not enough time to shoot em when my rifle shooting window is a couple hours 1 day per week.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:51:15 PM EDT
I want a TAVOR
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:51:34 PM EDT
not sure if it would be considered a bullpup, but I really want a PS90 some day.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:51:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ElectricSheep556:
Yes. Because of noise. It's science.


THIS IS GD, THERE IS NO PLACE FOR SCIENCE HERE!
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:51:47 PM EDT
I will have a Tavor.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 7:54:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ElectricSheep556:

Originally Posted By R_Fury:
Originally Posted By VBC:
All the energy of a decent round is wasted as noise. The more noise it makes, the more energy escaped that didn't push the bullet.



What??

So my 16" barrel MSAR has less muzzle velocity than my 16" barrel AR?

Yes. Because of noise. It's science.


Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 8:00:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2013 8:03:23 PM EDT by Skibane]
Originally Posted By halfmoonclip:
Really hard to argue with the size of the package compared to even an SBR, and no stamp required, plus full length barrel for full horsepower.


Yep.

A long barrel also burns most of the powder inside the barrel - which means less muzzle flash - and can be quieter, too.

I like the low barrel location that most bullpups have. Moving the barrel's centerline down closer to your shoulder is good for reducing muzzle rise. It's not an ideal arrangement for iron sights...but I'm a red dot guy anyway.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 8:02:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ElectricSheep556:

Originally Posted By R_Fury:
Originally Posted By VBC:
All the energy of a decent round is wasted as noise. The more noise it makes, the more energy escaped that didn't push the bullet.



What??

So my 16" barrel MSAR has less muzzle velocity than my 16" barrel AR?

Yes. Because of noise. It's science.


Heat is energy waves. Sound is energy waves.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 8:03:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By buck19delta:
i love my MSAR augs. great guns. small as hell. !

16" aug, compared to a 10" sbr

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp58/buck19delta/sbr_vs_bullpup_2.jpg


I run my EMOD all the way in like in the picture. The length to the trigger on the AUG is too damn much.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 8:04:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By ElectricSheep556:

Originally Posted By R_Fury:
Originally Posted By VBC:
All the energy of a decent round is wasted as noise. The more noise it makes, the more energy escaped that didn't push the bullet.



What??

So my 16" barrel MSAR has less muzzle velocity than my 16" barrel AR?

Yes. Because of noise. It's science.


Heat is energy waves. Sound is energy waves.

And bullshit is smell waves.

Link Posted: 1/17/2013 8:04:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By governmentman:
not sure if it would be considered a bullpup, but I really want a PS90 some day.


It is, despite the funky magazine layout. The chamber is still behind the trigger.

I'd like one, but I'd have to pay $200 on top of everything and wait a while to be happy with it.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 8:04:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

I run my EMOD all the way in like in the picture. The length to the trigger on the AUG is too damn much.


You either have rhinoceros shoulders or T-rex arms...
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 8:06:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By VBC:
All the energy of a decent round is wasted as noise. The more noise it makes, the more energy escaped that didn't push the bullet.



Do you even know what you're saying? Bullpups have much longer barrels than their standard counterparts of similar size.

My RFB is 27" long and has an 18" barrel.
My target .308 AR is a good 10-12" longer and only has a 16" barrel.


I actually did after I posted that. I realized the concept of a bullpup rifle is to have the end of the rifle barrel all the way back to your shoulder, instead of in front of your eye, but what I said is still true.




that makes no damned sense.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 8:06:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By optimus:
Originally Posted By governmentman:
not sure if it would be considered a bullpup, but I really want a PS90 some day.


It is, despite the funky magazine layout. The chamber is still behind the trigger.

I'd like one, but I'd have to pay $200 on top of everything and wait a while to be happy with it.


Plus feed it. And short of the breaking your ammo budget or reloading finicky 5.7, you're stuck with varmint projectiles.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 8:06:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By ElectricSheep556:

Originally Posted By R_Fury:
Originally Posted By VBC:
All the energy of a decent round is wasted as noise. The more noise it makes, the more energy escaped that didn't push the bullet.



What??

So my 16" barrel MSAR has less muzzle velocity than my 16" barrel AR?

Yes. Because of noise. It's science.


Heat is energy waves. Sound is energy waves.

And bullshit is smell waves.



Typical literary arts major.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 8:07:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By phideaux:
Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By VBC:
All the energy of a decent round is wasted as noise. The more noise it makes, the more energy escaped that didn't push the bullet.



Do you even know what you're saying? Bullpups have much longer barrels than their standard counterparts of similar size.

My RFB is 27" long and has an 18" barrel.
My target .308 AR is a good 10-12" longer and only has a 16" barrel.


I actually did after I posted that. I realized the concept of a bullpup rifle is to have the end of the rifle barrel all the way back to your shoulder, instead of in front of your eye, but what I said is still true.




that makes no damned sense.


It's because you don't have the knowlege and experience. It's as simple as that.

Link Posted: 1/17/2013 8:07:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 8:08:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Originally Posted By optimus:
Originally Posted By governmentman:
not sure if it would be considered a bullpup, but I really want a PS90 some day.


It is, despite the funky magazine layout. The chamber is still behind the trigger.

I'd like one, but I'd have to pay $200 on top of everything and wait a while to be happy with it.


Plus feed it. And short of the breaking your ammo budget or reloading finicky 5.7, you're stuck with varmint projectiles.


Which would still do a number on paper and tin cans. If shit were to hit the fan I'm still grabbing an AR, my muscles know how to use it best.
Link Posted: 1/17/2013 8:11:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2013 8:11:32 PM EDT by RDTCU]
Originally Posted By VBC:
It's because you don't have the knowlege and experience. It's as simple as that.



Says the guy who didn't know what the heck a bullpup rifle was, but tried to comment on their shortcomings anyway...


But yes, shorter barrel = lower velocity and more blast.
We all know that, there's nothing magical about it, and it shouldn't require explanation.
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