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Posted: 10/2/2004 10:36:26 AM EST
Hello all

I took my dad shooting last month, to try out my no ban AR15. Well my dad had a blast.

My dad is 62 year old recently retierd, and a recoverd alcoholic. He spend most of his working years busting his ass to pay for me and my mom and what free time and money he had he would drink away. So now he has spare time and spare money from being retierd and sober. And I am damn proud of him for quitting the drinking. And he liked shooting and I think he wants to take it up as a hobby. Because it is something him and I can do together, to try to make up lost time.

He really like shooting the AR and wants one of his own. He is a Vietnam Era vet from the early 60's so he shot the orginal M16 in the service. He doesn't know much about AR's other than his M16 experience in the service. So he wants me to help him build it. He wants to build to learn more and save a few bucks.

I have an M16 take off barrel that is used but in good condition, it's 1-12 twist. It has the A1 flash hider and the Triangal hand guards. We are looking for him and Upper and a Lower.

At first I was thinking of getting him an A1 Upper, but if he wanted to shoot in matches he would need an A2 upper at least to be competitive. He is just getting hooked so I really don't know where he is gonna go with this, he may want to shoot matches.

So should we build an:

A1 clone 1-12 Twist

A1/A2 hybred ( 1-12 Twist A1 Barrel, A1 lower config, and A2 Upper)

A2 clone

Other


I was thinking A1/A2 clone, he can upgrade to an HBAR for matches.


So what should we build him??
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 10:39:45 AM EST
Click Here

Good luck. I'm glad to hear your pop kicked the habit.


Link Posted: 10/2/2004 1:59:02 PM EST
C'mon guys somone voted Other explain in post and didn't post anything.

So you guys don't think I should give him my M16A1 take off barrel, I bought it without paying attention to the twist so I am trying to get it off my hands. I paid $120 bucks for it installed on an upper.

It looks as if the concencus is the A2 set up. He sort of liked the look of the A1.


Why not the A1/A2 bastard gun, if he does not get into match shooting and just plinks the A1 barrel would be fine. It will shoot M193 all day and anything else less than 62 grain. I know the 1 and 12 will not eat M855 or SS109 but that ammo is a bit higher in cost then M193. And he is trying to keep cost down anyways.


C'mon guys keep on posting. I need some input.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:00:41 PM EST
A3 M4.....with a phantom....and a case of ammo.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:05:14 PM EST
I like the M4. But his is a Vietnam era vet and learned to shoot the M16A1. I have an upper with an A1 type setup on it now, and he liked the way it looked. But he loved the way my no ban M4 shot. And with the A3 config he could mount optics.

But with an A2 couldn't he shoot high power with it?

There is a local high power club and I would like to get him into that.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:13:49 PM EST
Why not get the A1 with a barrel with a different twist? Nothing says you have to use the 1:12 twist. Its not something anyone will ever notice just by looking at it.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:18:04 PM EST
M16A2 clone with a NM heavy-barrel, get the longest you can find if he is not interested in tactical carbine matches or similar shooting events.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:23:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By ffsparky26:
I like the M4. But his is a Vietnam era vet and learned to shoot the M16A1. I have an upper with an A1 type setup on it now, and he liked the way it looked. But he loved the way my no ban M4 shot. And with the A3 config he could mount optics.

But with an A2 couldn't he shoot high power with it?

There is a local high power club and I would like to get him into that.



Sounds like he needs a couple of different uppers...seriously.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:26:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:36:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 2:38:16 PM EST by Stickman]
If he was Vietnam era, build him a M16 clone. You can do it pretty cheap, check out the other thread that shows how to build an M16 clone for under $400.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=280291
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:40:20 PM EST
How is his vision? My dad use to love peep sights... but now he prefers a magnified optic or red-dot sight... so he can feel confident with his shooting. Being reminded of what you used to be able to do, but cant anymore, is no fun.

For my pops.... we went flat top to give him optic mounting choices... and if he wants to go peep, than he can get a BUIS or carry handle.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:41:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
How is his vision? My dad use to love peep sights... but now he prefers a magnified optic or red-dot sight... so he can feel confident with his shooting. Being reminded of what you used to be able to do, but cant anymore, is no fun.

For my pops.... we went flat top to give him optic mounting choices... and if he wants to go peep, than he can get a BUIS or carry handle.



That is a real good point, optics can make shooting fun again for many people.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:58:27 PM EST
just build an A1 clone.

let him relive the old days with it.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:09:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:24:25 PM EST
I say go with the M4.
I just built one for my son:

LMT 14.5" upper with perm phantom FH(5C1)
LMT Lauer lower
M4 RAS
Magpul M93A collapsible stock
Got him some DPMS black teflon 30rd'ers.

Awesome. I told him I was going to build him the ultimate M4 and it is. Total cost was just over $1400.

I also have one in M16A1 config and it is pretty sweet. Wanted one like my old service rifle also. Haven't shot it yet though. Put a bunch together on 9/13
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:30:59 PM EST
A 1/9 twist is a must no matter what the length of the barrel... far and away the best twist for all types of rounds....Good for target accuracy, but still good for terminal ballistics. Flat top upper....because you can still put a carry handle if you like or mount a red dot of sorts (EOTech bias here though). A 16" barrel because it's still long enough for good accuracy but pratical if it was to be used as a defensive carbine in the home. Definately a quad rail hand-guard (UWS.com has very affordable ones which are really good quality). regular trigger ...national match is too pricey unless he is a target shooter. Collaspable stock...just because you can and it pisses of the lefties! (plus it makes it easier to store in a case). Fixed front sight.....it's always there no matter what, and you can be pretty accurate inside 25 meters with no back sight and only a front sight!

Did I miss anything? How about a single point sling.


.02
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:37:23 PM EST
Wait til the HK Upper comes out, get that, get a good lower, put an RAS on it, crane stock, and an ACOG. Get him something good.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 5:37:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2004 6:32:13 AM EST by N3rday]
You could go retroish but practical and just build a normal flattop or A2 (Whatever he prefers) and use old-style triangular handguards. You could get either a new or an old no-forward assist upper depending on preference as well, but I think you should definitely get a 1 in 7 or 1 in 9 barrel.
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