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Posted: 9/19/2009 1:10:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2009 11:21:54 AM EST by RyJones]
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 1:14:24 AM EST
That would be sweet if they could make a 2 bore lever action
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 1:15:25 AM EST
No fucking thank you. I enjoy the use of my right arm
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 1:16:08 AM EST
I don't know what would be worse, getting hit by it...or shooting it
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 1:35:20 AM EST
Tagged for later.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 1:35:22 AM EST
shouldn't it have wheels and a crew to operate it?
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 1:56:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:
shouldn't it have wheels and a crew to operate it?


That is bigger than some ML cannons!
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 2:47:33 AM EST
Now that is a gun MAKER.

Start with nothing but some bar stock and wood and finish up with a complete and beautiful firearm.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 3:16:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 3:32:48 AM EST
My dad spent his last 30 years or so making Kentucky rifles, but the Dixie Gun Works catalog was his source for stock blanks, barrel blanks, breech blocks and rough castings for the butt plate, patch box, hammer, trigger guard, etc. He did make the locks, triggers, nipples, sights, etc, out of mill stock, but the amount and type of machining required was nowhere near what is required to make a typical falling block single shot. He liked to think of himself as a master gunsmith but he was just a semi-talented amateur dabbler.

THAT guy is a true master gunsmith.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 3:35:11 AM EST
Beautiful gun
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 3:41:17 AM EST
I'll keep my right arm thank you
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 3:49:58 AM EST
You'll put your eye with that Ralphie...
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 4:15:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By Mosin_Nagant:
I don't know what would be worse, getting hit by it...or shooting it


Yes, that is definitely a "shared anguish" between the shooter and target.
I'm sure one side would be fatal. Just not sure which one.

Beautiful craftsmanship. I love this kind of stuff.


Link Posted: 9/19/2009 4:26:17 AM EST
I want to see what it does to a block of ballistic gelatin.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 4:54:04 AM EST
Henry Bowman approves of this thread.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 5:09:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By cole99:
I want to see what it does to a city block of ballistic gelatin.


Link Posted: 9/19/2009 5:17:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By cole99:
I want to see what it does to a block of ballistic gelatin.


No kidding... The ball pushed through 3 feet of earth then deformed against the steel plate.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 6:06:22 AM EST
group buy? we all kick in and buy one, then pass it around? since it's a muzzle loader, no 4473 to worry about.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 6:11:19 AM EST
the MPI is high on this thread
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 6:53:55 AM EST
That my friend is a work of art....beautiful gun...
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:22:14 AM EST
OP, thanks for posting this. I logged in this morning just expecting to catch up on a few threads and found this one. That guy is an artist! Maybe a bit crazy for shooting that thing, but a true artist. I wish I had a small fraction of his talent.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:30:34 AM EST
Y'all might like this thread as well: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=197253
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:30:46 AM EST
Did he say how much that beast cost to build?
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:37:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Muad_Dib:
Henry Bowman approves of this thread.


+1
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:42:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By LArifleMAN:
Did he say how much that beast cost to build?


He never said, but it sounded like it was mainly just a whole lot of his time. He mentioned that he made the metal parts out of stock that he had on hand, and the wood parts were made from Walnut cut from a tree on his property. The only thing I recall that he said he had to buy was the bullet mold.

Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:12:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2009 10:53:38 AM EST by StolzerSons]
I suppose first I should introduce myself. My name is Colin Stolzer I am the owner/operator of Stolzer & Son's Gunsmithing. I have been by AR15.com every now and then when I saw a link from another site that interested me, but had never registered. I track the inbound links on my business website and try to view any threads that involve my business, that way I can answer any questions and thank the appropriate people for sending traffic my way.

My thanks to the original poster(RyJones) for this thread, I appreciate the interest.

Thank you all for the comments and compliments, I'm glad you enjoyed the videos and the build documentation. I didn't see to many questions that needed to be answered. As to the cost of building this rifle, I didn't actually have much materials cost in it, it was mostly built from stock I had in shop left over from other builds, as was mentioned the wood came from a Black Walnut tree I cut a couple years back out of my pasture. The ball mould was made by Jeff Tanner over in the U.K.(great guy to do business with) he does excellent work.

Every gun I build is a custom project specific to the customer, so the prices vary quite a bit from one build to the next. This specific rifle was built mostly for advertising purposes. We can build just about anything, but we specialize in Big Bore Muzzleloaders and Muzzleloading Double Rifles. So I figured I might as well build the biggest of the Big Bores.

As to shooting it, it does have a massive amount of recoil, but because it weighs 24 pounds and because the stock architecture is based on the classic British lines with the straight comb with proper cast and drop, it allows the recoil to go up and away from the body, so it really isn't that bad to shoot. Also keep in mind this is black powder not smokeless so the recoil is more of a push and isn't sharp like it would be with smokeless. It didn't leave me bruised or black and blue, just a little tender for a day or so.
Here's a link to a Frame by Frame video of a 440grain charge of FFg black powder with patched round ball, it will show you what is really happening with the recoil from this rifle.
Frame by frame Video

Thank you all for the interest, and feel free to ask me any questions or contact me through my email or phone on my website, I'm always happy to talk guns with people.

Colin
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:36:43 AM EST
Nice, but I really like the 500 Black Powder Express on your site.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:40:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By StolzerSons:
I suppose first I should introduce myself. My name is Colin Stolzer I am the owner/operator of Stolzer & Son's Gunsmithing. I have been by AR15.com every now and then when I saw a link from another site that interested me, but had never registered. I track the inbound links on my business website and try to view any threads that involve my business, that way I can answer any questions and thank the appropriate people for sending traffic my way.

My thanks to the original poster(RyJones) for this thread, I appreciate the interest.

Thank you all for the comments and compliments, I'm glad you enjoyed the videos and the build documentation. I didn't see to many questions that needed to be answered. As to the cost of building this rifle, I didn't actually have much materials cost in it, it was mostly built from stock I had in shop left over from other builds, as was mentioned the wood came from a Black Walnut tree I cut a couple years back out of my pasture. The ball mould was made by Jeff Tanner over in the U.K.(great guy to do business with) he does excellent work.

Every gun I build is a custom project specific to the customer, so the prices vary quite a bit from one build to the next. This specific rifle was built mostly for advertising purposes. We can build just about anything, but we specialize in Big Bore Muzzleloaders and Muzzleloading Double Rifles. So I figured I might as well build the biggest of the Big Bores.

As to shooting it, it does have a massive amount of recoil, but because it weighs 24 pounds and because the stock architecture is based on the classic British lines with the straight comb with proper cast and drop, it allows the recoil to go up and away from the body, so it really isn't that bad to shoot. Also keep in mind this is black powder not smokeless so the recoil is more of a push and sharp like it would be with smokeless. It didn't leave me bruised or black and blue, just a little tender for a day or so.
Here's a link to a Frame by Frame video of a 440grain charge of FFg black powder with patched round ball, it will show you what is really happening with the recoil from this rifle.
Frame by frame Video

Thank you all for the interest, and feel free to ask me any questions or contact me through my email or phone on my website, I'm always happy to talk guns with people.

Colin


Thank you for dropping by Colin, you're most welcome here anytime. Do you plan to load that bad boy up with 00 buck and see how she patterns?
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:43:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By m4pointman:
Nice, but I really like the 500 Black Powder Express on your site.


Thank you, that ones actually my personal double rifle, I hunt pretty regular with it.

Colin
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:45:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2009 6:51:44 AM EST by StolzerSons]
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
Thank you for dropping by Colin, you're most welcome here anytime. Do you plan to load that bad boy up with 00 buck and see how she patterns?


I need to get a .715" ball mold and cast some balls, I really want to see how it does as a buck gun. I also want to get some 1.250" 52100 steel ball bearings and see how they shoot, ball bearing patched with leather patches would make a lighter, faster(more fps) load with tons more penetration and no deformation like lead. Less recoil too.

Colin
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:57:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By StolzerSons:
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
Thank you for dropping by Colin, you're most welcome here anytime. Do you plan to load that bad boy up with 00 buck and see how she patterns?


I need to get a .715" ball mold and cast some balls, I really want to see how it does as a buck gun. I also want to get some 1.250" 52100 steel ball bearings and see how they shoot, ball bearing patched with leather patches would make a lighter, faster(more fps) load with tons more penetration and no deformation like lead. Less recoil too.

Colin


Holy smokes, how much more penetration do you need? As I said earlier in this thread Colin, you're a true artist; I wish I had a fraction of your talent.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 7:02:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By StolzerSons:
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
Thank you for dropping by Colin, you're most welcome here anytime. Do you plan to load that bad boy up with 00 buck and see how she patterns?


I need to get a .715" ball mold and cast some balls, I really want to see how it does as a buck gun. I also want to get some 1.250" 52100 steel ball bearings and see how they shoot, ball bearing patched with leather patches would make a lighter, faster(more fps) load with tons more penetration and no deformation like lead. Less recoil too.

Colin


Hmmm... more hardness or more mass?
get both
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 7:16:26 AM EST
Freeking sweet. That would make one hell of a bush gun.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 7:31:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
Holy smokes, how much more penetration do you need? As I said earlier in this thread Colin, you're a true artist; I wish I had a fraction of your talent.


Thank you I apprenticed under one of the best and I'm not near as good as he is. I actually don't need anymore penetration because I will probably never be able to afford to hunt Elephant and find out how this thing really performs.

Colin
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 7:34:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tolip:
Beautiful gun


This. I have seen pics of the Steve Zihn gun mentioned on that site as well. Beautiful work. A gentleman in Illinois owns it(the Zihn) and posts at nitroexpress.com. Being a bigbore collector, he also has two 4 bore side by sides and a .700 NE.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 7:37:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tolip:
Hmmm... more hardness or more mass?
get both


Actually it's less weight with more hardness that makes the steel interesting, with the steel it would be many hundreds times more tensile strength than lead, with less weight. So using the same powder charge you would get higher velocity(FPS) with less recoil, and gain the huge advantage of having a hard solid projectile. Not to mention the cost, I didn't see a price tag on those tungsten balls but I'm sure they are more expensive than steel(about $3.00/each).

Colin
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 7:40:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By shack357:
Originally Posted By Tolip:
Beautiful gun


This. I have seen pics of the Steve Zihn gun mentioned on that site as well. Beautiful work. A gentleman in Illinois owns it(the Zihn) and posts at nitroexpress.com. Being a bigbore collector, he also has two 4 bore side by sides and a .700 NE.


Thank You. I built some of the parts for the 2 Bore that Steve built, I've seen pictures of the 4 Bore SxS that Ken Owen Built for him, it's a real beauty.

Colin
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 7:41:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By jeep450:
Freeking sweet. That would make one hell of a bush gun.


As long as you can afford to have somebody else pack it around for you.

Colin
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 7:42:56 AM EST
Who's gonna build an upper?
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 7:47:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By RyJones:
1/2 pound lead shot? holy cow.


Extremely beautiful firearm, but no thanks.

Link Posted: 9/20/2009 7:51:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By weptek911:
Originally Posted By RyJones:
1/2 pound lead shot? holy cow.


Extremely beautiful firearm, but no thanks.



This.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 8:51:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Muad_Dib:
Henry Bowman approves of this thread.


Henry Bowman would prefer a magazine rifle in .375 H&H.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 9:18:04 AM EST
Very nice. How do you work out the logistics so that the gun doesn't blow up from the pressure of firing?
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 9:20:50 AM EST
Amazing! Beautiful machine work and everything was documented to the T.

I'll probably never own a big bore.. but I'll keep dreaming
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 9:23:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By Forgetfull:
Very nice. How do you work out the logistics so that the gun doesn't blow up from the pressure of firing?


Black powder is low pressure...
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 10:29:23 AM EST
bump for a most excellent example of fine American craftsmanship and ingenuity



Link Posted: 9/20/2009 10:43:55 AM EST


Colin, you are true artist, that is magnificent work!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 10:52:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2009 10:57:14 AM EST by StolzerSons]
Thank you all for the compliments. I try to document at least one full build a year, and hopefully it will inspire someone else to try their hand at Gunsmithing.

I have a degree in applied science, mostly mechanical engineering(I just never pursued the rest of the Engineering degree), so it wasn't a big deal to sit down and do the math on the types of steel and thickness required to contain the pressure with a good safety margin. And as was stated Black Powder is low Pressure, it also has a rapidly diminishing pressure curve. I also proofed it with a double max charge and double ball load...twice, and double checked all the measurements with a .00001" mic on a surface plate, just to be sure.

Colin
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 11:22:13 AM EST
bump for those who may be interested in asking about the rifles
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 11:30:11 AM EST
the only thing cooler than this rifle would be a side by side one. if you made one you could hunt anything you wanted to
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