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Posted: 10/11/2007 3:47:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 4:29:01 PM EST by ReallyLongAction]
For the first time in 12 years an Amreican car comany has been ranked #1 in overall quality by JD Power, or any major automotive reviewer for that matter. Buick ended that dryspell.


Now, only if they brought back the God Damn Grand National !!!!




The last few years have been rough ones for Detroit automakers, as they have seen their market share erode in the face of competition from their Asian and European rivals. Some of the reason is a more fragmented auto industry, with more and more models coming down the pipeline every year, offering shoppers a much larger set of options. But another part of the problem has been a perception among car buyers -- whether accurate or not -- that the U.S. automakers are lagging when it comes to quality and dependability. Ultimately, would-be domestic buyers look at rival import vehicles instead.In that context, Detroit carmakers should be thrilled about the results of the 2007 Vehicle Dependability Study conducted by J.D. Power and Associates. For the first time in 12 years, a brand -- an American brand, no less -- tied with Lexus for the highest ranking in long-term dependability.

That brand is Buick, which obviously augers well for General Motors and its other nameplates. But, just as significant for the domestic auto industry is the fact that three of the five top spots are American brands. Following top-ranked Buick and Lexus were, in order, Cadillac, Honda and Mercury.

The study was based on responses from more than 53,000 original owners of 2004 model-year vehicles, and was conducted from January through April of this year. It measured the number of problems reported by these owners. Lexus and Buick each posted a "top score" of 145 problems per 100 vehiclesAlso significant is that three of the top five brands (Buick, Mercury and Honda) are not pricey premium brands but instead are more affordable brands that cater to mid-range buyers.

"With three non-premium nameplates -- Buick, Honda and Mercury --ranking within the top five, and particularly with Buick tying with Lexus for the top rank, consumers seeking a vehicle with strong dependability have good choices at various price levels," said Neal Oddes, director of product research and analysis for J.D. Power and Associates. "Consumers don't necessarily need to pay premium prices to obtain high quality and dependability."

The study also revealed that long-term dependability is now more important than ever.

"Sixty two percent of buyers now cite long-term dependability as their number one reason for buying the car they bought, compared to their second choice," said Joe Ivers, .J. D. Power's executive director of automotive quality and customer satisfaction research. "That is now the number one issue by far, and it's been growing. In 2003, only 52 percent cited long-term dependability as the reason -- and back then, that factor wasn't even the number one reason they made the choice they made."

Ivers confirmed that high marks for 3-year-old models should translate into similarly high quality in the brand's new models.

"That's something the consumer will definitely want to know, and it's a good question," said Ivers. "Of course, there are no guarantees, but it is unusual when an automaker misses an opportunity to improve on quality from one generation to the next.

"Subsequent generations of a model, or new models from that carmaker, do tend to be much better than the previous ones," Ivers continued. "And in the case of Buick, that's reflected in the new-car quality rankings we're seeing in studies of current models. So, the indication is that this new generation of Buicks are likely to be in the same range or better than the old ones when it comes to long-term dependability."

The study also broke down the data by model and market segment, and handed out "segment awards." Lexus led the pack with five awards for the GS 300/GS 430, GX 470, LS 430, LX 470 and SC 430. Toyota followed with four segment awards for the RAV 4, Sequoia, Tacoma and Tundra. Ford won segment awards for the Crown Victoria and Mustang, while Honda earned awards for the Civic and S2000. Oldsmobile models also received two segment awards, for the Bravada and Silhouette.

One finding that is significant to consumers and carmakers alike is that models with strong dependability may retain up to 15 percent of their value after three years -- that may increase their resale value. Models that demonstrate strong dependability lose their value less rapidly compared with vehicles which are not as dependable. Plus, vehicles that retain higher residual values appeal more to dealerships who may be able to sell those models two to three times during the lifetime of the vehicle.

The study used the Scion xA as an example. The Scion xA, which won an award in the study's sub-compact car segment, maintains an average residual value of 71 percent, much higher than the industry average of 56 percent. After three years, the 2004 Scion xA may retain value up to $10,607 of its initial average price of $14,939, according to the study. That would drop to $8,366 if the model's residual value rate matched the industry average.

"Automakers may reap numerous benefits from producing dependable vehicles," said Oddes. That's not only true in terms of "higher residual values, decreased warranty costs and opportunities for remarketing their vehicles," he said, but also applies in areas like "higher customer satisfaction and increased likelihood of customers recommending or purchasing newer dependable models.

"This is why it's especially important for automakers to successfully launch new vehicle models with high initial quality and appeal." Models that perform well in this regard "tend to exhibit particularly strong dependability later in their life cycle," explained Oddes.

The dependability study also found that approximately 65 percent of the vehicle owners had experienced one or more problems that required components to be replaced. Owners who had to replacement components within the first three years were significantly less satisfied with their vehicles than owners who didn't. Satisfaction was further diminished if owners were required to replace a major component, such as a transmission, or if minor components needed to be replaced frequently.

The failure of components and the resulting drop in satisfaction can lead to decreased customer loyalty, the study found. Owners who had to deal component failure expected to keep their vehicle approximately one year less than owners who experienced problems but didn't need to replace components.

"As owners experience vehicle problems -- particularly ones that require components to be replaced -- they are less likely to repurchase or recommend their current model," said Oddes. "Automakers can improve upon customer loyalty by working closely with their component suppliers to monitor quality, since failure of a component ultimately reflects upon the quality of the vehicle brand in the minds of consumers



Gastly attempt at a hotlink

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 3:50:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 3:50:43 PM EST by Redcap]


Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:24:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 4:29:54 PM EST by ReallyLongAction]

Originally Posted By Redcap:
blogs.salon.com/0001075/images/stuff/yousuck.jpg





Why, posting a story?

edit -Oh, you mean because I cant post a hotlink.

Doooh.


I jus cant seem to do it.


]autos.aol.com/article/general/v2/_a/most-dependable-brands-2007/20071009133609990001[url/]

Lemme try again.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:27:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:30:08 PM EST
Buicks are the only American car that can even compete with the Japanese on quality.


Beats me why that is, but its true.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:33:13 PM EST
Lexus is still at the top? Damn...
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:35:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By tyman:
Lexus is still at the top? Damn...


No, Buicks are at the top. I just cant seem to p ost a hotlink. I've tried. I just cant.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:48:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By ReallyLongAction:

Originally Posted By tyman:
Lexus is still at the top? Damn...


No, Buicks are at the top. I just cant seem to p ost a hotlink. I've tried. I just cant.



For the first time in 12 years, a brand -- an American brand, no less -- tied with Lexus for the highest ranking in long-term dependability.


Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:54:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By ReallyLongAction:

Originally Posted By Redcap:
blogs.salon.com/0001075/images/stuff/yousuck.jpg





Why, posting a story?

edit -Oh, you mean because I cant post a hotlink.

Doooh.


I jus cant seem to do it.


]autos.aol.com/article/general/v2/_a/most-dependable-brands-2007/20071009133609990001[url/]

Lemme try again.


When you click the Link button, the first box is for whatever text you want to input. No special text, leave it blank. The second one is for the actual link.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:55:55 PM EST
I've owned a few Buicks and they are extremely dependable nice riding cars that compete well with the japanese makes. Maybe the old coots know something that the young whippersnappers don't?

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:58:24 PM EST
i've got an 97 skylark that i literally drove off a cliff (pike's peak) thing keeps on trucking.

ap
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:59:06 PM EST
Last Buick I had ('88 LeSabre) lasted me to 485k miles.

'Nough said.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 4:59:58 PM EST
You lose at teh interwebs.


But Buick kicks ass!
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 6:24:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By Redcap:
Always have loved Buicks. So much so that in the back of my barn, under a fitted car cover, lurks one of these, waiting for me to build a motor and find that perfect, though completely incorrect, transmission.

www.stage1registry.com/BuickGS/johnh70s1.jpg

PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE build a badass Stage 1 455. port the heads out, close up the chambers a lil, big nasty cam, and the rotatiing assembly to spin it up. the original rods suck donkey balls. damnit i love the GSX

o and btw... buick is just a pretty chevy and lexus is just an overpriced toyota.


It will be something more...sinister...than a simple Stage 1.

The plan, once I can find the right block, is stroking it to well over 500ci, adding a hogged-out set of T/A Performance Stage 2 Elim heads, Isky custom 266/271 cam which will end up around .650" lift, the Hilborn stack injection manifold converted to EFI with the Megasquirt II controller I'm working on right now. The trans, which I already have, is a 6 speed Lenco ST1200 out of another car. Mini-tubs and a Ford 9" rearend.

This won't be one of my clusterfuck junkyard builds. I will not start until everything is ready and waiting.

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 6:25:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 6:26:07 PM EST
What is the skinny on JD Power? Are they legit?
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 6:30:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:
Does this mean that Buicks will be lasting as long as Hondas and Toyotas?

Edit: Made the link hot, and it leads to a page-not-found error. AOL


Two of my three cars are Buicks. A 94 LeSabre and a 95 Roadmaster. Great cars.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 7:29:50 PM EST
I don't doubt for a moment that Buick generally builds some very good quality cars, but I have to wonder if the demographics of the owners has a lot to do with the results of this survey. The kind of folks who buy brand-new Buicks (and most Lexus models, too) aren't the kind of folks who regularly flog their vehicles. Rather, they are more likely to be the kind of people who go overboard on routine maintenance - which no doubt improves reliability.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 7:32:35 PM EST
I haven't had any issues with my Century. Good cars.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 7:34:50 PM EST
I drove a new Enclave.....nice vehicle, was impressed.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 7:36:16 PM EST
I don't know about reliable but after driving my moms N* Lucerne It has plenty of power and the interior is scary quiet. Looks a little better than the older buicks but it seems to be built for short people.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 7:50:45 PM EST
I've always had good luck with Buicks, Mercurys, and Nissans.

I've ridden in one of the new Lucernes, and besides being named after a dairy company, it was a very nice car.

Perhaps it is because Tiger Woods is now involved...
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 7:53:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 7:54:15 PM EST by Green70]

Originally Posted By Skibane:
I don't doubt for a moment that Buick generally builds some very good quality cars, but I have to wonder if the demographics of the owners has a lot to do with the results of this survey. The kind of folks who buy brand-new Buicks (and most Lexus models, too) aren't the kind of folks who regularly flog their vehicles. Rather, they are more likely to be the kind of people who go overboard on routine maintenance - which no doubt improves reliability.

That's a good point.

However, The 2 Chrysler products I owned were bought new and treated to nothing but the best in fluids and maintenance and they both had multiple problems.

Page 2 goes to thoughtful reflection of facts and experience...
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:32:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 9:38:51 PM EST by Green70]
I like the looks of the Lucerne:



LaCrosse is not a bad looking car, either:




I had no idea that Buick was down to just 2 car models and 1 crossover thing. Wow.

I've owned a Regal, a Park Avenue, an Electra Estate Wagon, and almost bought a `72 boat tail Riviera.

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 9:56:20 PM EST
My Park Avenue had 275,000 miles when it got totaled.




15 years old and running strong right up to the accident.
Believe me I flogged this car, 100 miles everday but I maintained it too.

Buicks are good, solid American cars.

Colonel Hurtz
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:01:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 10:01:42 PM EST by destaccado]

Originally Posted By Redcap:
Always have loved Buicks. So much so that in the back of my barn, under a fitted car cover, lurks one of these, waiting for me to build a motor and find that perfect, though completely incorrect, transmission.

www.stage1registry.com/BuickGS/johnh70s1.jpg


My dad has that exact car in that same color....
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 10:37:51 PM EST
JD Power generally ranks on as delivered quality. I suppose that means something.

Dennis Jenkins


Originally Posted By ReallyLongAction:
For the first time in 12 years an Amreican car comany has been ranked #1 in overall quality by JD Power, or any major automotive reviewer for that matter. Buick ended that dryspell.


Now, only if they brought back the God Damn Grand National !!!!




The last few years have been rough ones for Detroit automakers, as they have seen their market share erode in the face of competition from their Asian and European rivals. Some of the reason is a more fragmented auto industry, with more and more models coming down the pipeline every year, offering shoppers a much larger set of options. But another part of the problem has been a perception among car buyers -- whether accurate or not -- that the U.S. automakers are lagging when it comes to quality and dependability. Ultimately, would-be domestic buyers look at rival import vehicles instead.In that context, Detroit carmakers should be thrilled about the results of the 2007 Vehicle Dependability Study conducted by J.D. Power and Associates. For the first time in 12 years, a brand -- an American brand, no less -- tied with Lexus for the highest ranking in long-term dependability.

That brand is Buick, which obviously augers well for General Motors and its other nameplates. But, just as significant for the domestic auto industry is the fact that three of the five top spots are American brands. Following top-ranked Buick and Lexus were, in order, Cadillac, Honda and Mercury.

The study was based on responses from more than 53,000 original owners of 2004 model-year vehicles, and was conducted from January through April of this year. It measured the number of problems reported by these owners. Lexus and Buick each posted a "top score" of 145 problems per 100 vehiclesAlso significant is that three of the top five brands (Buick, Mercury and Honda) are not pricey premium brands but instead are more affordable brands that cater to mid-range buyers.

"With three non-premium nameplates -- Buick, Honda and Mercury --ranking within the top five, and particularly with Buick tying with Lexus for the top rank, consumers seeking a vehicle with strong dependability have good choices at various price levels," said Neal Oddes, director of product research and analysis for J.D. Power and Associates. "Consumers don't necessarily need to pay premium prices to obtain high quality and dependability."

The study also revealed that long-term dependability is now more important than ever.

"Sixty two percent of buyers now cite long-term dependability as their number one reason for buying the car they bought, compared to their second choice," said Joe Ivers, .J. D. Power's executive director of automotive quality and customer satisfaction research. "That is now the number one issue by far, and it's been growing. In 2003, only 52 percent cited long-term dependability as the reason -- and back then, that factor wasn't even the number one reason they made the choice they made."

Ivers confirmed that high marks for 3-year-old models should translate into similarly high quality in the brand's new models.

"That's something the consumer will definitely want to know, and it's a good question," said Ivers. "Of course, there are no guarantees, but it is unusual when an automaker misses an opportunity to improve on quality from one generation to the next.

"Subsequent generations of a model, or new models from that carmaker, do tend to be much better than the previous ones," Ivers continued. "And in the case of Buick, that's reflected in the new-car quality rankings we're seeing in studies of current models. So, the indication is that this new generation of Buicks are likely to be in the same range or better than the old ones when it comes to long-term dependability."

The study also broke down the data by model and market segment, and handed out "segment awards." Lexus led the pack with five awards for the GS 300/GS 430, GX 470, LS 430, LX 470 and SC 430. Toyota followed with four segment awards for the RAV 4, Sequoia, Tacoma and Tundra. Ford won segment awards for the Crown Victoria and Mustang, while Honda earned awards for the Civic and S2000. Oldsmobile models also received two segment awards, for the Bravada and Silhouette.

One finding that is significant to consumers and carmakers alike is that models with strong dependability may retain up to 15 percent of their value after three years -- that may increase their resale value. Models that demonstrate strong dependability lose their value less rapidly compared with vehicles which are not as dependable. Plus, vehicles that retain higher residual values appeal more to dealerships who may be able to sell those models two to three times during the lifetime of the vehicle.

The study used the Scion xA as an example. The Scion xA, which won an award in the study's sub-compact car segment, maintains an average residual value of 71 percent, much higher than the industry average of 56 percent. After three years, the 2004 Scion xA may retain value up to $10,607 of its initial average price of $14,939, according to the study. That would drop to $8,366 if the model's residual value rate matched the industry average.

"Automakers may reap numerous benefits from producing dependable vehicles," said Oddes. That's not only true in terms of "higher residual values, decreased warranty costs and opportunities for remarketing their vehicles," he said, but also applies in areas like "higher customer satisfaction and increased likelihood of customers recommending or purchasing newer dependable models.

"This is why it's especially important for automakers to successfully launch new vehicle models with high initial quality and appeal." Models that perform well in this regard "tend to exhibit particularly strong dependability later in their life cycle," explained Oddes.

The dependability study also found that approximately 65 percent of the vehicle owners had experienced one or more problems that required components to be replaced. Owners who had to replacement components within the first three years were significantly less satisfied with their vehicles than owners who didn't. Satisfaction was further diminished if owners were required to replace a major component, such as a transmission, or if minor components needed to be replaced frequently.

The failure of components and the resulting drop in satisfaction can lead to decreased customer loyalty, the study found. Owners who had to deal component failure expected to keep their vehicle approximately one year less than owners who experienced problems but didn't need to replace components.

"As owners experience vehicle problems -- particularly ones that require components to be replaced -- they are less likely to repurchase or recommend their current model," said Oddes. "Automakers can improve upon customer loyalty by working closely with their component suppliers to monitor quality, since failure of a component ultimately reflects upon the quality of the vehicle brand in the minds of consumers



Gastly attempt at a hotlink

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:19:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Green70:
I like the looks of the Lucerne:

a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/1229/v134/imageonthefly.autodatadirect.com/images/?IMG=CAB80BUC101A0101.jpg&WIDTH=640

LaCrosse is not a bad looking car, either:

a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/1229/v134/imageonthefly.autodatadirect.com/images/?IMG=80BUGEB4.jpg&WIDTH=425


I had no idea that Buick was down to just 2 car models and 1 crossover thing. Wow.

I've owned a Regal, a Park Avenue, an Electra Estate Wagon, and almost bought a `72 boat tail Riviera.



The Lucerne is awesome in black and fully loaded!
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:20:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By ColonelHurtz:


Buicks are good, solid American cars.

Colonel Hurtz


When you take GM's 2nd most bulletproof engine/tranny combo and just a little more upgraded quality parts and put them in a car, you get one helluva vehicle.

Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:28:25 PM EST
I owned a 91 Buick Regal and still had it until recently. I put an INSANE number of miles on it. And despite having another vehicle for a number of years before getting rid of the Regal, it was the car I drove 90% of the time. Other than routine maintenance, the car never gave me a speck of trouble. It was the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned by far.

I let it go last year (figuring that with it's age and mileage that is HAD to be ready for major problems eventually) but I still see it quite often taking the fella who bought it where he needs to go and back. It's still running like a champ a year later.

So I ended up getting another Buick. I don't particularly care what a car looks like, provided it's reliable and comfortable. A car is just a tool to take you from point A to point B. Nobody ever said it had to be gorgeous to serve it's purpose. So being I like quality cars, yet prefer to buy from American companies, Buick is what I plan to stick with until they give me a reason not to. So far, I've had nothing but good things to say about them.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:31:24 PM EST
Maintaining QC isn't real hard when you're only building about 65 cars a week.

Buick needs to go back to RWD. It worked for Caddy, and it will attract the folks who can't afford Caddys.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:38:56 PM EST
One of my buddies was raised in a Buick. That's all he's ever driven or bought. He even got one for his wife. He does tech support all over the Southeast and loves his Buick.

I'm partial to the Park Avenue, they look kind of sharp.
Link Posted: 10/11/2007 11:48:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2007 11:49:09 PM EST by Stlrain0341]
Honestly, all cars are pretty much equal as far as reliability is concerned, most people just have strong biases that influence how they rate cars. I know plenty of people that have nothing but problems with their imports, but they find a way to rationalize them.

Just buy the car that you like the best.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 1:40:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By ReallyLongAction:

Originally Posted By tyman:
Lexus is still at the top? Damn...


No, Buicks are at the top. I just cant seem to p ost a hotlink. I've tried. I just cant.



For the first time in 12 years, a brand -- an American brand, no less -- tied with Lexus for the highest ranking in long-term dependability.




3-year old models are "long term." Get back to me in 7 more years.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 1:43:35 AM EST
JD power should be laughed out the industry for such a study. Lets look at long term reliability of 2004 models, in 2007.

How about something useful like comparing 1997 Buicks to 1997 Lexus. Any car, including a Kia or Hyundai should be flawless for three short years.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 1:45:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By ReallyLongAction:

Originally Posted By tyman:
Lexus is still at the top? Damn...


No, Buicks are at the top. I just cant seem to p ost a hotlink. I've tried. I just cant.



For the first time in 12 years, a brand -- an American brand, no less -- tied with Lexus for the highest ranking in long-term dependability.




3-year old models are "long term." Get back to me in 7 more years.


Dont shoot the messenger here there big guy. I was just quoting the article.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 1:51:10 AM EST
well, when the average buick pilot is 65 years old, and rides in the left lane at 5 under..... The cars just don't get the wear and tear of other brands.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 2:17:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By phatmax:
well, when the average buick pilot is 65 years old, and rides in the left lane at 5 under..... The cars just don't get the wear and tear of other brands.


No but the other Wbodys in the GM lineup are abused and they hold up (drivetrain wise) great.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 2:17:56 AM EST
Reliable? I figured the term would be "passionless" or "boring" or to maybe put it in the German class of cars with a term like "Uber booring."

I'm not impressed, but at least American car reliability is improving. That's pretty good news...now lets infuse some fun into the reliability. Until then, I'll buy Infiniti, Acura and Lexus products.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 2:19:02 AM EST

Maybe the old coots know something that the young whippersnappers don't?


But what the Old Coots don't know, is that Young Whippersnappers don't want to drive a car that looks like an Old Coot drives it.

If this turns out to be true, the American public will be somewhat to very skeptical, my self heavily included. It will take quite a few years for it to sink in, remember, the Japanese didn't take over the American car market overnight either.

For what I want in a car, Buick and the other US car makers don't deliver. While reliability is very important, I look for over-all performance (not just straight line drag strip stuff), great handling (no front wheel drive) and a much higher quality interior.

I'm willing to spend the bucks....

Happy Motoring,
Bill
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 2:28:06 AM EST
My first car was a 1978 Buick Century, Special Edition.
Car survived my mom and older brother to get handed down to me.
That Tank was solid, barely cost me a cent in maintenance..
I loved it.
That said, I've had so much shit with other GM models over the years, I've sworn them off.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 2:58:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By Skibane:
I don't doubt for a moment that Buick generally builds some very good quality cars, but I have to wonder if the demographics of the owners has a lot to do with the results of this survey. The kind of folks who buy brand-new Buicks (and most Lexus models, too) aren't the kind of folks who regularly flog their vehicles. Rather, they are more likely to be the kind of people who go overboard on routine maintenance - which no doubt improves reliability.


Yes, this is probably a factor.
But I owned a '99 Taurus. I maintained it according to the Ford maintanence schedule and I drove it like a 50 year old man (because I WAS a 50 year old man). It had a serious problem with warping brake rotors. Brake rotors would warp after just a few thousand miles of driving. My Ford trucks never had this problem. The dealer told me it was indeed a problem with the design of the rotors and not my fault; and nothing could be done about it!!!

I'm afraid that Ford lost me for good because of this car. Although I WOULD still consider buying another Ford truck, because I've had terrific luck with Ford trucks, I'll never buy another Ford car. The article is correct in pointing out that a problem like the one I had with a basic (and important) sub-system like brakes can permanently alienate a car owner from ever buying another car from the offending manufacturer.

To compound the problem for Ford, I bought a Toyota to replace the Taurus, and it's hands down a superior car.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 3:09:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By phatmax:
well, when the average buick pilot is 65 years old, and rides in the left lane at 5 under..... The cars just don't get the wear and tear of other brands.


Well, if you damn kids would stop driving so fast and let us control the flow of traffic, we'd have fewer accidents.

And stay the hell off my lawn!!
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 4:00:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Skibane:
I don't doubt for a moment that Buick generally builds some very good quality cars, but I have to wonder if the demographics of the owners has a lot to do with the results of this survey. The kind of folks who buy brand-new Buicks (and most Lexus models, too) aren't the kind of folks who regularly flog their vehicles. Rather, they are more likely to be the kind of people who go overboard on routine maintenance - which no doubt improves reliability.


Thats a very good point. Im sure it also plays a part in why Mercury made the list also. Every Grand Marquis driver I know is over 55.
Link Posted: 10/12/2007 2:00:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Another-Bill:

Maybe the old coots know something that the young whippersnappers don't?


But what the Old Coots don't know, is that Young Whippersnappers don't want to drive a car that looks like an Old Coot drives it.

If this turns out to be true, the American public will be somewhat to very skeptical, my self heavily included. It will take quite a few years for it to sink in, remember, the Japanese didn't take over the American car market overnight either.

For what I want in a car, Buick and the other US car makers don't deliver. While reliability is very important, I look for over-all performance (not just straight line drag strip stuff), great handling (no front wheel drive) and a much higher quality interior.

I'm willing to spend the bucks....

Happy Motoring,
Bill


No front wheel drive knocks off the vast majority of Japanese cars save for the sports cars. My 98 Regal's interior is still in excellent condition, but I'll admit that American makers have some crappy looking hard plastic crap that still looks horrible. The exhausts of especially Japanese cars absolutely SUCK compared to the US makes, I've found they go about 7 years then fall apart, I've got US makes far older with exhausts that are still in VG shape.

Please don't overlook the fact that ALL of the Japanese makes have been flat out lying on HP stats for years which is something I've been well aware of because they could never put the numbers on the strip that their HP would suggest.

Toyota has had more then their share of issues lately quality wise, they HAVE admitted it which I give them kudos for but they also swept it under the table til they no longer could hide it.

I'll also give them kudos for some pretty fresh and cool styling, something the US makers seem to have problems with or they think they deserve a premium if they do have a car with great looks.

I've owned Toyotas, Nissans, Datsuns, Honda's, and most of the US makes, I've also maintained them exactly the same, which is excellently, and both countries makes have left me stranded about the same number of times and both have given me good service.

The most expensive break was either the blown engine in my 79 bronco, [about a zillion miles, many of then hard 4 wheeling ones] or the exploded Xfer case in my 74 Land Cruiser.

And the US, dollar for dollar, still makes a sports car that will kick the ass of any Japanese sports car allowed into the US. [Vette]
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