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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/31/2005 12:39:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 5:29:15 PM EDT by 67Charger]
My friend and I were out shooting yesterday and he said my 11-87 wouldn't quit jamming. Upon closer inspection, the U-shaped, brazed junction at the bottom, front of the receiver had broken free and the barrel and mag tube were sliding away from the receiver. A few wiggles on the barrel, and the pieces finally separated completely. I am not the original owner, so there is no chance of a warranty repair, but the factory is the only place I would trust having it repaired by.

Has anyone else had anything similar happen? I'll post pics when I get back home tonight or tomorrow...
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 12:41:25 PM EDT
I would at least call Remington and ask them about it. That sucks. I had mine out today pounding the ducks.
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 12:42:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2005 12:43:04 PM EDT by Kharn]
Several gun companies will do repairs for free, even if you arent the original owner and its not stated explicitly in the manual, due to liability concerns. I know Ruger does it, I'm 99% sure Taurus does it. Give Remington a call and see what they say, you never know.

For example, my Ruger MkII was messed up when I bought it used, shipped it to Ruger, they sent me a brand new gun, even though the one I had bought was over 15 years old.

Kharn
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 6:52:32 AM EDT
You can see the broken joint here... No broken parent material, just a failed braze/solder joint.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/67Charger/DSC01293.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/67Charger/DSC01305.jpg
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 6:57:19 AM EDT
Your is the 3rd I have seen do that! At least you didn't lose the little block that is on top of the feed tube! Those are a bitch to make.. Once again Looks like a crappy braze job..
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 6:57:22 AM EDT
That's not safe.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 6:58:08 AM EDT
Call Big Green.

Tell them what happened. You feel it is poor workmanship. If they say there is no way they can help you, tell them you're going to go buy a Browning Gold or a Beretta 391.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 6:59:08 AM EDT


Tagged for home.


Link Posted: 11/1/2005 7:01:25 AM EDT
I am willing to BET Remington will fix that for you. This obviously a manufacturing/quality defect. Generally such things are covered regardless of warranty.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 7:06:59 AM EDT
The way people talk around here, I thought only a Mossberg would do something like that.

<­BR>

Link Posted: 11/1/2005 7:09:15 AM EDT
Call Remington. They might just fix it for free because it is a manufacturing defect.

Gun companies are often VERY good about fixing problems, even if it isn't technically under warranty.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 7:14:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
Call Big Green.

Tell them what happened. You feel it is poor workmanship. If they say there is no way they can help you, tell them you're going to go buy a Browning Gold or a Beretta 391.


Naw, tell'em you're going to "sue them if they don't fix this god darn thing." J/K

Actually they are really nice people will try to get things right.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 7:17:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
Call Big Green.

Tell them what happened. You feel it is poor workmanship. If they say there is no way they can help you, tell them you're going to
go buy a Browning Gold or a Beretta 391.


Link Posted: 11/1/2005 7:20:27 AM EDT
[gunshopexpert]Yeah, the 870s do that allll the time too.

And they kaboom too!

And....uh...don't use Wolf in them.[gunshopexpert]

Tag to see what Remmy does.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 7:24:13 AM EDT
tag for outcome.....
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 7:28:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 7:29:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 7:31:48 AM EDT
It's getting shipped out today... We'll see what they say shortly.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 7:51:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Defcon:
First time I have seen that one. 11-87s, in my experience, are extremely unreliable especially in hunting/adverse conditions. Few people I know who own/have owned them are happy with the reliablity and performance over time.

Best of luck getting it fixed and I am glad you are ok.




That's certainly not my experience. I bought mine in 1988 and have zero problems with it. I have hunted all kinds of game in all kinds of weather. I have also used in temps. of -20 and have never had it fail to operate. I have had it get so cold it turned white on the outside from all the frost and ice on it, yet it still never missed a beat.

YMMV
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 7:52:56 AM EDT
tagged for outcome
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 2:42:03 PM EDT


Wow, that looks just like my 11-87, except that mine doesn't have the, uh, extra gap.

I hope yours gets fixed and mine stays together.

Mine has been reliable - the only failures to eject have been with light target loads, which it's not supposed to function with anyway.

Link Posted: 11/1/2005 2:46:24 PM EDT
funny, I blew the extractor out of my brand new 870 three days ago.
I think Remington's quality has been going down the shitter over the last few years.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 3:05:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 89grand:
The way people talk around here, I thought only a Mossberg would do something like that.

<­BR>

www.ar15.com/images/smilies/anim_peep.gif



Nah...just the Mavericks...
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 3:07:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By just-mike:
funny, I blew the extractor out of my brand new 870 three days ago.
I think Remington's quality has been going down the shitter over the last few years.



Sorry to hear that...if you want a great pump, check out the Benelli Nova. IMHO one of the best bang for the buck deals out there...
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 3:09:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2005 3:10:31 PM EDT by crazyquik]

Originally Posted By just-mike:
funny, I blew the extractor out of my brand new 870 three days ago.
I think Remington's quality has been going down the shitter over the last few years.



It has. They will admit it.

Big Green figured out it was cheaper to do less quality control, and fix the guns that were returned, than to build them right to start with.

Bolt handles coming off Rem 700s is not uncommon. Mounting holes for scopes drilled off center, rifles bored off center, dinged crowns from the factory, etc.

It may be cheaper to do less QC and fix the ones that come back, but that's not accounting for the people who will purchase a Ruger, Winchester, CZ, or Tikka instead

FWIW I have an 11-87 Sporting Clays and have fired thousands and thousands of rounds thru it with no problem. But, its a target shotgun and wasn't subject to harsh field conditions. Just lots and lots of trap and skeet loads.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 7:09:12 PM EDT
Well, it was sent out on the dreaded brown truck today... Wrapped, padded, boxed, marked "gift", lot's of fragile labels, name and address taped to the firearm itself, )in case of some unforseen external marring of the shipping info), insured for $700, and tracked. I don't want it to look like a firearm to any passer's by, encouraging a "lost in shipping" case. Sure the recipient name and address is a good clue, but no need to blaze "GUN, steal me and have a paperwork free, untraceable weapon for free" on the box.

I hate UPS, but Remington specifically requests UPS or Parcel Post, and I am not taking a gun to the post office.

I'll update as I get info...
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 7:40:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 67Charger:
Well, it was sent out on the dreaded brown truck today... Wrapped, padded, boxed, marked "gift", lot's of fragile labels...



Yeah, you wouldn't want it to get broken or somthing.




Seriously, though, good luck. Did you talk to Remington before shipping, or inckude a letter, or what?

Link Posted: 11/1/2005 8:51:54 PM EDT
yes... They have a questionaire for you to fill out and include with the firearm being sent in. I called in and asked about procedure and time frame, and am doing as told.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 6:58:30 PM EDT
Update #1:

They have received it and entered it into their system, and it should be evaluated by the end of the week. At least it survived UPS...
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 7:04:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 7:05:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 67Charger:
Update #1:

They have received it and entered it into their system, and it should be evaluated by the end of the week. At least it survived UPS...



1 week for diagnosis
4 weeks to order parts
2 weeks to repair
1 week for testing
1 week for pre-shipping procedures
1 week for shipping

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! YOU GET YOUR SHOTGUN BACK!!!


Only for it to do it again 3 days later

Sorry... just being a wiseass! When I sent my Taurus in, it was like FOREVER until I got it back... took them like 3 months. Remington will back up what they make... Good luck.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 7:13:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2005 7:14:34 PM EDT by 67Charger]
My thoughts are that it is"totaled", for lack of a better term. It has to be stripped, cleaned of old brazing material, re-brazed, and then re-stripped to bare metal, and re-finished. There is no way to heat the receiver up to brazing temps without damaging the finish. This would make the cost to repair higher than the cost to replace by a wide margin.

I'll tell them outright I will not pay the equivalent of the new price ( or even a significant fraction thereof) to repair a broken gun and have a repaired version of what I started with. I'll take my money elsewhere, and make sure everyone I know does the same. I don't want to be hard-nosed until they start to balk. I'll let them try first to play the good customer service people and act like they are doing me a favor, so long as the end is right. The gun is a tool. I have no personal attachments to that particular one, so they have no emotional leverage of trying to get me to pay to have "my" gun repaired.
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 7:14:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 67Charger:
I hate UPS, but Remington specifically requests UPS or Parcel Post, and I am not taking a gun to the post office.

I'll update as I get info...



I've always wondered why they request UPS when UPS Stores are forbidden to ship guns and most gun related items (according to the nice lady I ship through who owns 3 USP store franchises. She said it came from them, and is not her policy. She ships my "car parts" (her term) when I need to ship out barrels or stocks without hesitation.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 11/9/2005 7:19:38 PM EDT
Impressive
thats a new one say a bunda do that once but not a remington
im sure they will stand behind that
Link Posted: 11/11/2005 12:58:04 PM EDT
***UPDATE***

I called into day to chaeck the status, and they said there was a work order placed to get a new mag tube, seals, etc, so they could braze it back together, and then re-finish it. I said I wanted to be contacted before work starts with a cost, because I wan't going to pay for a repair, but put the $$$ towards a replacement. They said they didn't contact me beacause they are doing the repair free of charge. When I asked why it failed in the first place, she said, "every now and then, one slips through..."

While I may have preferred a new one, I do not mind a repair using new parts and having my gun built with personal attention rather than an assembly line attitude that caused the failure to begin with. If it happens again, I'll have record of the first incident and that they performed all the repairs, and are fully responsible.

She also said they would have it for a couple of weeks, but that was not a surprise.
Link Posted: 11/11/2005 1:09:14 PM EDT
Sounds like a good deal to me, keeping in mind that this is an out of warranty product.

Good on Remington.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 9:11:04 AM EDT
***UPDATE***

I just got off the phone with Remington, and they informed me it willbe at LEAST 4 more weeks before it is done being refinished. The repairs are done, but the finishing is done in batches, and it will be 4+ weeks before mine will make it through. I expressed my displeasure in a polite manner, since the process is free, but it is more than a little excessive on the time-frame. The repairs were completed over 2 weeks ago, but it will just be sitting on a shelf for over 6 weeks before it's turn in line.

Irritating, but it will be done eventually.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 9:22:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 67Charger:
***UPDATE***

I just got off the phone with Remington, and they informed me it willbe at LEAST 4 more weeks before it is done being refinished. The repairs are done, but the finishing is done in batches, and it will be 4+ weeks before mine will make it through. I expressed my displeasure in a polite manner, since the process is free, but it is more than a little excessive on the time-frame. The repairs were completed over 2 weeks ago, but it will just be sitting on a shelf for over 6 weeks before it's turn in line.

Irritating, but it will be done eventually.



So you bought a used shotgun with no idae how it was treated. It broke. They are fixing if for free up to factory specs and refinishing it...... No money out of your pocket for a replacement shotgun. Yet you are displeased with the time frame. I think they are doing a wonderful job of customer service. I'd take that kind of irritation any day. Then again I do have several other shottys for backup. Glad it's gonna work out.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 9:51:15 AM EDT
I agree completely.

As I stated, I was polite about not being happy with the excessive sitting time. I AM grateful that they stood behind their product, especially since I bought it used. They didn't HAVE to do anything for free, and I recognize and appreciate that fact. None of that changes the fact that 6 weeks of sitting time seems agonizingly long.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 12:18:26 PM EDT
No offense intended charger but you have a company willing to make right a defect (admittedly of their own fault) on a second hand item. You bought it from the original owner with no, NO warrenty or expectation of one.

I understand you not wanting to wait 6 weeks for it to be batch refinished with the rest of their guns but allowing for a roughly 2 week shutdown over the holidays I don't think this is all THAT bad. They reasonably could have told you that since you're not the original owner, they have NO obligation to you and told you to either cough up money for the repair (which as you pointed out would have been prohibitively expensive) or sent you the pieces back.

Were I in your shoes I'd be singing Remington's praises for their dedication to customer service. But that's just me. Yeah, I know, they should've done it right the first time. They screwed up, they're making it right.

We're all badly spoiled by the firearms industry's customer service...you want to see how it is in the REAL world...deal with a US automaker over some screw up THEY do on your car..
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 12:31:51 PM EDT
My buddies up in Kansas are avid duck and goose hunters. They have ALL switched to that Russian (Biakal?) semi auto shotgun that shoots 3 1/2 inch shells. They tell me they will shoot anything you run thru the magazine, and they work no matter how dirty, how nasty the conditions, etc. Kind of the AK-47 of semi-auto shotguns. Best of all they are cheap.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 12:43:00 PM EDT
I don't think you have any legitimate gripe on the wait time.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 12:52:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 5:09:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2005 5:11:49 PM EDT by nbjly]
My .02 -

Why is Remington repairing this shotgun? Damage control. Regardless of the circumstances, a failure like this makes them look bad. Taking so long to fix it makes them look worse. Any repair is a priority over cranking out more new weapons. They should have just sent him a new one.
No one has even mentioned any potential liability.
Some of you sound like he should be licking their boots because they'll fix their fuck up.
It's just more 'be reasonable and bend over' bullshit

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:28:19 PM EDT
Going on 8 weeks...

...repairs still in progress.

As of yesterday, I was told it had returned from thr refinishing process, but was back in for repairs. At first, I assumed that meant reassembly, but then they said something about a "swollen stock" and ordering more parts. Do synthetic stocks "swell?" What did they do to it? It was fine (the stock, not the rest of it) when it left here?

I was very polite, and asked them at what point they consider replacing a firearm versus putting it in for a 10+ week repair... I was rewarded with a truly generic answer of, "Well, the repair technicians make that decision upon receiving the firearm to the repair center."
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 7:19:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By 67Charger:
Update #1:

They have received it and entered it into their system, and it should be evaluated by the end of the week. At least it survived UPS...



1 week for diagnosis
4 weeks to order parts
2 weeks to repair
1 week for testing
1 week for pre-shipping procedures
1 week for shipping

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! YOU GET YOUR SHOTGUN BACK!!!


.



Im not usually one to say I told you so but....


You DO have to admit that they are taking care of the problem and that is a good thing... frustrrating, but good.
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