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Posted: 9/15/2010 7:07:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2010 7:07:34 AM EDT by Angelshare1]
Yup, it says stuff we already know but still nice to read. I remember all these horror articles in the 90's on how a 4 year will be a quart mil. Yes, if you go to Harvard, have no scholarship, live on campus, out of state, ect, ect, ect, basically highlighting the most expensive routes possible.

State school, live with parents, get part time job, do 2 years at community college. I think the part about how employers like degress more than they like where you got it from sums up everyone except for perhaps a few old boy network companies.

***


http://financiallyfit.yahoo.com/finance/article-110657-6644-3-how-one-college-student-beat-tuition-costs?ywaad=ad0035

How One College Student Beat Tuition Costs

A new book offers advice for college students looking to save their parents' retirement and financial well-being.

Meet Zac Bissonnette, a graduate of the University of Massachusetts and the author of the book Debt-Free U: How I Paid For an Outstanding College Education Without Loans, Scholarships, or Mooching Off My Parents. Bissonnette's tale is an eye-opening one – and a must-read for students looking to save every penny they can on tuition.

[Click here to find an online degree program]

The cost of higher education is rising – even as the economy remains a tailspin. The average four-year cost for a top-flight school like Harvard or Stanford is almost $200,000. And even a solid state school like UCLA or the University of Michigan will set students back almost $100,000.

So how did Bissonnette come out ahead?

Let's take a look at Bissonnette's results and what he was (or wasn't) working with. He graduated with no student loan debt, no financial support from parents and no scholarships. Or, as the author describes it in explaining his book:

"[This book] is for families who can find fifteen dollars per week in cost cuts…and students who are willing to work hard — thirty hours per week, on average, including vacations — college is affordable: without any savings, student loans, Parent PLUS loans, retirement looting, organ sales, or heroin dealing."

Bissonnette touts some simple concepts, but concepts that might have gone out of style in recent decades. He advocates picking a cheaper state school than an expensive private one; working up to 30 hours a week while you're at school to help pay the freight; and a "no excuses" mentality that stresses hard work, studying and keeping ahead of your academic workload.

[See Carrying a $97K Student Loan Debt]

The debt questions chiefly rest on two themes: Don't take out a student loan and choose a state school over a private one. The author notes that public college students graduate with significantly less debt than their private school counterparts (UMass is ranked fifth in the nation among big schools that graduate students with the lowest debt, according to U.S. News & World Report.)

He also took a financial risk that most college students don't normally take — paying for his housing by investing in local real estate.

As for class work, Bissonnette advises choosing a school not for its size or prestige factor, but by the specific programs that cater to your career interests. That could mean bypassing a chic private school and choosing a less-expensive state school that offers more programs (but always the one you want, Bissonnette says).

Another good financial move from the author: Since employers favor the college degree more than where you go to school for four years, spend your first two years in college at a community college, and accumulate enough credits to move on to a more career-enhancing college or university. If you live at home during those first years and pay the lower tuition rate, Bissonnette says you can cut your total college costs by tens of thousands of dollars.

[See How One Student's Debt Hit $555K]

There's no doubt top-flight schools won't like what Bissonnette is selling. But cash-strapped families will likely see it differently. If you want the whole enchilada, order Bissonnette's book.

Short of that, listen to what he says about college and the long-term impact of student debt:

"College is an active experience, not an intellectual amusement park ride where you strap in and see what happens. Find one with a wide array of programs and, above all, a price tag that won't put parents' retirement on the back burner or make a student an indentured servant of Sallie Mae into middle age. Just as driving a Mercedes won't make you rich, attending an expensive school won't make you smart. But it very well could make you poor."
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:13:13 AM EDT

Bissonnette touts some simple concepts, but concepts that might have gone out of style in recent decades. He advocates picking a cheaper state school than an expensive private one; working up to 30 hours a week while you're at school to help pay the freight; and a "no excuses" mentality that stresses hard work, studying and keeping ahead of your academic workload.


That idea, commendable as it is, is a non-starter in today's world.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:18:13 AM EDT
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:19:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By runcible:

Bissonnette touts some simple concepts, but concepts that might have gone out of style in recent decades. He advocates picking a cheaper state school than an expensive private one; working up to 30 hours a week while you're at school to help pay the freight; and a "no excuses" mentality that stresses hard work, studying and keeping ahead of your academic workload.


That idea, commendable as it is, is a non-starter in today's world.

Why? I seemed to pull off working 20-30 hours a week during college just a few years ago. Might be kind of hard right now with high unemployment, but it's still feasible. To many students don't even try to work in college.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:21:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tojan19:

Originally Posted By runcible:

Bissonnette touts some simple concepts, but concepts that might have gone out of style in recent decades. He advocates picking a cheaper state school than an expensive private one; working up to 30 hours a week while you're at school to help pay the freight; and a "no excuses" mentality that stresses hard work, studying and keeping ahead of your academic workload.


That idea, commendable as it is, is a non-starter in today's world.

Why? I seemed to pull off working 20-30 hours a week during college just a few years ago. Might be kind of hard right now with high unemployment, but it's still feasible. To many students don't even try to work in college.

My point. You missed it.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:22:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.

Whenever these topics come up people say shit like this, but the fact is the majority of people attend state schools. So while they may not get hired by the likes of you, they will not have trouble finding gainful employment.


Out of curiosity, what field is it that you are in?
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:25:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Naf:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.

Whenever these topics come up people say shit like this, but the fact is the majority of people attend state schools. So while they may not get hired by the likes of you, they will not have trouble finding gainful employment.


Out of curiosity, what field is it that you are in?

Yup. I'm a state school grad, worked full time and in some cases worked a part time job with that, and had zero problems finding employment right out of school.

Of course I'm not working for some tier 1 employer (can I say that? Just did) but then again I'm happy with my job for the most part so I think that is all that counts.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:29:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Naf:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.

Whenever these topics come up people say shit like this, but the fact is the majority of people attend state schools. So while they may not get hired by the likes of you, they will not have trouble finding gainful employment.


Out of curiosity, what field is it that you are in?

law
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:30:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.

Congrats, you're overpaying for spoiled ninnies who will get smoked in an IQ test by a lot of state-school engineers.


Originally Posted By tojan19:

Originally Posted By runcible:

Bissonnette touts some simple concepts, but concepts that might have gone out of style in recent decades. He advocates picking a cheaper state school than an expensive private one; working up to 30 hours a week while you're at school to help pay the freight; and a "no excuses" mentality that stresses hard work, studying and keeping ahead of your academic workload.


That idea, commendable as it is, is a non-starter in today's world.

Why? I seemed to pull off working 20-30 hours a week during college just a few years ago. Might be kind of hard right now with high unemployment, but it's still feasible. To many students don't even try to work in college.

It is out of style. Frugality, even in bad times, yields to North Face jackets and bar tabs. Most kids today don't want to work hourly, because it's below them. Until they get that $XX,000 per year, they just think they're wasting their time.

I generalize, of course, but I suppose that's what this thread is about.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:33:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By Naf:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.

Whenever these topics come up people say shit like this, but the fact is the majority of people attend state schools. So while they may not get hired by the likes of you, they will not have trouble finding gainful employment.


Out of curiosity, what field is it that you are in?

law


Law is easily the exception rather than the rule.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:35:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By Naf:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.

Whenever these topics come up people say shit like this, but the fact is the majority of people attend state schools. So while they may not get hired by the likes of you, they will not have trouble finding gainful employment.


Out of curiosity, what field is it that you are in?

law


Good thing our President would fit right in then...
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:38:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Naf:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.

Whenever these topics come up people say shit like this, but the fact is the majority of people attend state schools. So while they may not get hired by the likes of you, they will not have trouble finding gainful employment.


Out of curiosity, what field is it that you are in?


Director of Smug at a large New York Snootiness brokerage.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:45:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 0PSEC:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.

Congrats, you're overpaying for spoiled ninnies who will get smoked in an IQ test by a lot of state-school engineers.


Originally Posted By tojan19:

Originally Posted By runcible:

Bissonnette touts some simple concepts, but concepts that might have gone out of style in recent decades. He advocates picking a cheaper state school than an expensive private one; working up to 30 hours a week while you're at school to help pay the freight; and a "no excuses" mentality that stresses hard work, studying and keeping ahead of your academic workload.


That idea, commendable as it is, is a non-starter in today's world.

Why? I seemed to pull off working 20-30 hours a week during college just a few years ago. Might be kind of hard right now with high unemployment, but it's still feasible. To many students don't even try to work in college.

It is out of style. Frugality, even in bad times, yields to North Face jackets and bar tabs. Most kids today don't want to work hourly, because it's below them. Until they get that $XX,000 per year, they just think they're wasting their time.

I generalize, of course, but I suppose that's what this thread is about.



But it's a correct generalization unfortunately.

There's a small university of about 8k students in the town I live in. I participated in a "Job Fair" for graduating seniors (done as a favor more than anything). They asked what entry-level pay was at our organization, when I provided them with a loose estimate based on their chosen field, 70+% stated they were "...really looking for something around $50,60,65k to start, but thanks for the information..."

They have no experience. They have an under-grad degree or an MBA (as common as notebook paper). They want $60k/year in an area with a median wage approximately half that.


Now this was 2 years or so ago and perhaps (I hope) they've become a bit more realistic. Nowadays, experience is damn near everything...even getting your foot in the door is a battle.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:47:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Naf:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.

Whenever these topics come up people say shit like this, but the fact is the majority of people attend state schools. So while they may not get hired by the likes of you, they will not have trouble finding gainful employment.


Out of curiosity, what field is it that you are in?


Director of Smug at a large New York Snootiness brokerage.


"Hmmm,Hmmm, How would you like to mow my lawn?"

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:47:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Naf:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.

Whenever these topics come up people say shit like this, but the fact is the majority of people attend state schools. So while they may not get hired by the likes of you, they will not have trouble finding gainful employment.


Out of curiosity, what field is it that you are in?


Director of Smug at a large New York Snootiness brokerage.


Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:47:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By WhackyPlague:
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By Naf:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.

Whenever these topics come up people say shit like this, but the fact is the majority of people attend state schools. So while they may not get hired by the likes of you, they will not have trouble finding gainful employment.


Out of curiosity, what field is it that you are in?

law


Law is easily the exception rather than the rule.


Law in NYC even more so. Unless your looking at a very specific career path, (such as partner in a NY law firm) there is little reason to pay a quarter million for school.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:51:07 AM EDT
Already doing that, thanks.

I don't work 40hrs/wk and take 17hrs of class a semester to come out of school saddled with debt. That's just absurd.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:53:39 AM EDT
As a college student, I look down on my peers who don't work while in school, then complain about debt.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:53:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By Naf:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.

Whenever these topics come up people say shit like this, but the fact is the majority of people attend state schools. So while they may not get hired by the likes of you, they will not have trouble finding gainful employment.


Out of curiosity, what field is it that you are in?

law


What kind of undergrad degree-holding kids are you hiring?

Or are you being 100% irrelevant to the subject at hand?

FWIW, each of those law schools accept students with a wide variety of non "Ivy league" backgrounds. Then again, you know this... right?
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:56:59 AM EDT
I went college, but one thing that I learned was, "be kind to the C student, because they will be running the world."
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 7:58:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:04:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AeroE:
Originally Posted By runcible:

Bissonnette touts some simple concepts, but concepts that might have gone out of style in recent decades. He advocates picking a cheaper state school than an expensive private one; working up to 30 hours a week while you're at school to help pay the freight; and a "no excuses" mentality that stresses hard work, studying and keeping ahead of your academic workload.


That idea, commendable as it is, is a non-starter in today's world.


How's that a non-starter?

There are undoubtedly thousands following that formula right now. Most will not graduate in 4 years, and they're smart enough to know that it won't matter. They're focused on an education and have a plan that extends past next Friday afternoon, or on finding the Tuesday night party.

I think he is saying that most college students don't have the work ethic to handle 30 hours plus a full-time class load.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:09:40 AM EDT
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:11:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Drsalee:
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!

$400 a YEAR? Even with inflation that'd be $786.98 today. I'd gladly pay that!!
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:13:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!


Education is a bubble, and will probably be the next to pop.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:23:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.


Honest answer, do you find the Ivy types to be smarter/better? Or is it a name brand thing that you can pass onto your clients?

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:24:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By runcible:

Bissonnette touts some simple concepts, but concepts that might have gone out of style in recent decades. He advocates picking a cheaper state school than an expensive private one; working up to 30 hours a week while you're at school to help pay the freight; and a "no excuses" mentality that stresses hard work, studying and keeping ahead of your academic workload.


That idea, commendable as it is, is a non-starter in today's world.


Not at all. My fiance did exactly that.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:24:50 AM EDT
Community colleges are still very cheap.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:28:16 AM EDT
Well, duh. I got my associates at a community college and now make about twice the median income for my area.

Wear a suit and don't act like a fool in the interview so they'll know you're professional, yet easy to work with. Paying the equivalent of a mortgage for decades after getting out of school is crazy - especially in this economy.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:31:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WhackyPlague:
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By Naf:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.

Whenever these topics come up people say shit like this, but the fact is the majority of people attend state schools. So while they may not get hired by the likes of you, they will not have trouble finding gainful employment.


Out of curiosity, what field is it that you are in?

law


Law is easily the exception rather than the rule.

Even in law, the exception is unwarranted.

You go to an Ivy to work at biglaw in a primary market (big city). Okay. It's unnecessarily inflated the price of services, because a JD is a JD. The students at Columbia (Meghan McCain's alma mater, clearly showing intelligence has little to do with admission) read the same cases as the students at Marshall (regardless of what city your Marshall is in). It's not analogous to a technical program, where overhead expenses actually alter the academic experience for the student.

To get into one of these schools (it leads to one of these careers), you have to do well on the LSAT and have a good GPA. To do well on the LSAT, you can mix and match some combination of intelligence and preparation. Kids in the average range can easily get their score up there with enough practice, and quality practice generally correlates to the amount of money you're willing to spend. Ends up being a poor objective indicator of intelligence or capability.

Next comes GPA. If you're "pre-law," you need your good GPA. Which is why you won't take engineering, won't take chem, probably won't even dabble in finance - because it's all about A's. Your current existence is merely a prerequisite in pursuit of A's, regardless of where those A's come from. Useless degree. Also ends up being a poor objective indicator of intelligence or capability.

Nonetheless, you get into HLS, then fellate your professors (literally or figuratively), get onto a journal (as if you don't hate your life enough, here, have some more), and you're there. You'll have a job at a V25 in no time. Or at least you should, because that's what a quarter mil plus, 4 wasted years of undergrad and 3 years of professional school were supposed to be about.

I suppose the Top-14 process serves some purpose for hiring partners in NY/LA/DC/etc., though - they know their applicants will be well-acclimated to long hours of drone work. The misery is paid forward, ensuring that the cycle will repeat.

But for the clients, the end-consumer, I'm not entirely sure what's been accomplished by focusing on pedigree over substance. Efficiency, cost-containment and innovation are wholly squashed in this culture. I suppose a brand is polished by seeking the landed and elite to join its ranks, and a lot of clients will pay for brand, but it just seems so... anticompetitive, compared to how most industries run.

Anyway, quite the tangent, but I'm hoping as the employment market on law bottoms out, and more young associates get dicked over by layoffs, there might be a restructuring on the horizon. Law is indeed one of the last holdout exceptions to the rule - elitism often trumps progress - and I know I'm not alone when I say I hope that fades soon. I believe that if we can get past the legal cartel structure, what will remain is a profession that is more competitive, more politically moderate, and generally less-hated by laypersons.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:37:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HairOfTheDog:
Well, duh. I got my associates at a community college and now make about twice the median income for my area.

Wear a suit and don't act like a fool in the interview so they'll know you're professional, yet easy to work with. Paying the equivalent of a mortgage for decades after getting out of school is crazy - especially in this economy.


It's also very easy to do much of a bachelor's degree at a community college, then transfer to a larger school for a year or two to finish.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:39:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 0PSEC:

Originally Posted By WhackyPlague:
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By Naf:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
That's all well and good, but I don't hire my kids out of state school, I hire out of Ivies, Stanford, Chicago etc.

Whenever these topics come up people say shit like this, but the fact is the majority of people attend state schools. So while they may not get hired by the likes of you, they will not have trouble finding gainful employment.


Out of curiosity, what field is it that you are in?

law


Law is easily the exception rather than the rule.

Even in law, the exception is unwarranted.

You go to an Ivy to work at biglaw in a primary market (big city). Okay. It's unnecessarily inflated the price of services, because a JD is a JD. The students at Columbia (Meghan McCain's alma mater, clearly showing intelligence has little to do with admission) read the same cases as the students at Marshall (regardless of what city your Marshall is in). It's not analogous to a technical program, where overhead expenses actually alter the academic experience for the student.

To get into one of these schools (it leads to one of these careers), you have to do well on the LSAT and have a good GPA. To do well on the LSAT, you can mix and match some combination of intelligence and preparation. Kids in the average range can easily get their score up there with enough practice, and quality practice generally correlates to the amount of money you're willing to spend. Ends up being a poor objective indicator of intelligence or capability.

Next comes GPA. If you're "pre-law," you need your good GPA. Which is why you won't take engineering, won't take chem, probably won't even dabble in finance - because it's all about A's. Your current existence is merely a prerequisite in pursuit of A's, regardless of where those A's come from. Useless degree. Also ends up being a poor objective indicator of intelligence or capability.

Nonetheless, you get into HLS, then fellate your professors (literally or figuratively), get onto a journal (as if you don't hate your life enough, here, have some more), and you're there. You'll have a job at a V25 in no time. Or at least you should, because that's what a quarter mil plus, 4 wasted years of undergrad and 3 years of professional school were supposed to be about.

I suppose the Top-14 process serves some purpose for hiring partners in NY/LA/DC/etc., though - they know their applicants will be well-acclimated to long hours of drone work. The misery is paid forward, ensuring that the cycle will repeat.

But for the clients, the end-consumer, I'm not entirely sure what's been accomplished by focusing on pedigree over substance. Efficiency, cost-containment and innovation are wholly squashed in this culture. I suppose a brand is polished by seeking the landed and elite to join its ranks, and a lot of clients will pay for brand, but it just seems so... anticompetitive, compared to how most industries run.

Anyway, quite the tangent, but I'm hoping as the employment market on law bottoms out, and more young associates get dicked over by layoffs, there might be a restructuring on the horizon. Law is indeed one of the last holdout exceptions to the rule - elitism often trumps progress - and I know I'm not alone when I say I hope that fades soon. I believe that if we can get past the legal cartel structure, what will remain is a profession that is more competitive, more politically moderate, and generally less-hated by laypersons.


Wow.......if I could read that from a tele-prompter in a commanding voice.........I could be the next POTUS.

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:40:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tolip:
Originally Posted By HairOfTheDog:
Well, duh. I got my associates at a community college and now make about twice the median income for my area.

Wear a suit and don't act like a fool in the interview so they'll know you're professional, yet easy to work with. Paying the equivalent of a mortgage for decades after getting out of school is crazy - especially in this economy.


It's also very easy to do much of a bachelor's degree at a community college, then transfer to a larger school for a year or two to finish.


Aye. That option was also available and I was considering it.. I saw the economy starting to crash long before (was working IT at a real estate office) and got a better job before they started to become scarce.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:41:55 AM EDT
I worked for a company that would only hire Stanford grads for upper management. It seems that one thing Stanford teaches is "Only hire other Stanford grads". The engineering side had grads from all over. I only worked there a year and left. They went under 2 years after I left. Wages were too high.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:48:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!


Education is a bubble, and will probably be the next to pop.


Call it bubble, or call it a stampede. In 2001, my campus had 850 people enrolled. We topped 1800 this semester. We are running out of classrooms, labs, sections and are at max capacity. With the economy in pieces, grants and loan subsidized... people get paid to go to school no matter what their grades.

It is a full on rush right now.

TRG
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:49:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Drsalee:
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!

It's amazing, isn't it? The tuition rise makes the housing bubble look like a blip:


Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:51:21 AM EDT
Other option - join the military and have college paid for...
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:53:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tojan19:

Originally Posted By runcible:

Bissonnette touts some simple concepts, but concepts that might have gone out of style in recent decades. He advocates picking a cheaper state school than an expensive private one; working up to 30 hours a week while you're at school to help pay the freight; and a "no excuses" mentality that stresses hard work, studying and keeping ahead of your academic workload.


That idea, commendable as it is, is a non-starter in today's world.

Why? I seemed to pull off working 20-30 hours a week during college just a few years ago. Might be kind of hard right now with high unemployment, but it's still feasible. To many students don't even try to work in college.


When I went to college I always worked at least 20 hours a week. I went to a U of Cal school and graduated w/ about $12k in debt. Not bad. I just recently went back and the kids now are horrible. I'm only 28, so it hasn't been very long, but it seems totally different. When I went to get my BA, most of my friends had jobs, the only ones who didn't had wealthy parents, played sports or had scholarhsips. Now, none of these kids work. To top it off, they complain about how much stress they are under.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:54:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mazeman:

Originally Posted By Drsalee:
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!

It's amazing, isn't it? The tuition rise makes the housing bubble look like a blip:



That will change soon. And not for the better.

Even Texas is talking about cutting funding (based on contact hours per student) by 25% or more.

We are already just hanging on in this economy. It will mean that we increase tuition, fees, textbooks, and reduce services.

TRG
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:55:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2010 8:55:47 AM EDT by DK-Prof]
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:02:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!


Education is a bubble, and will probably be the next to pop.


Not really.


it has to, people can't afford the cost
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:03:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!


Education is a bubble, and will probably be the next to pop.


Not really.


I filled 9 sections w 30 students each (physical limit is 28 PCs). We turned away sooooo many students on sections that were filled in every major.

By this time next year, I will be teaching 26 classes per year, on an 4:4 contract.

That is a human wave of people coming to school. I doubt it ends any time soon. Too many people are out of work and will remain out of work for years.

I heard yesterday that after two years of unemployment most men never go back to work. Something like 15% of the European working age male is no longer working, instead they are living off state welfare/subsidies/grants/school loans.

TRG

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:05:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2010 9:05:41 AM EDT by TheRedGoat]
Originally Posted By Fourays2:
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!


Education is a bubble, and will probably be the next to pop.


Not really.


it has to, people can't afford the cost


And...that is where you are wrong. Although I will not say a 'majority' of my students are subsidized 100%, many are either paying very little to go to school. Grants, loans and scholarships are what brings them here.

It is also socially interesting to work in the bookstore on registration days. The demographics of who is paying cash vs. those who are on a 'grant' is intriguing, to say the least.

TRG
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:18:55 AM EDT
Post high school education is a business (state schools at least function as a business), and like any business there is a plan. Only in uncommon examples of high end schools does that plan allow pure educational standards and the associated reputation to dictate the business model. For most, it's a linear programming problem that maximizes enrollment capacity, tuition, fee income, academics, general reputation and campus life. Some of these variables are elastic, some are not.

The administrations standard play is to be publicly dramatic about rising costs to students in public, but still spend-spend-spend on things not necessarily academic in nature to be more attractive to the mass market. A lot of schools (the local VCU for example), have made the mistake of spending a lot on facilities, which makes students happy, but not improving the overall education that students receive from their dime.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:34:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
It is also socially interesting to work in the bookstore on registration days. The demographics of who is paying cash vs. those who are on a 'grant' is intriguing, to say the least.


That would be because the average middle class white guy can't get a grant or scholarship to save his life.

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:41:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!


Education is a bubble, and will probably be the next to pop.


Its a bubble because it has been subsidized by the taxpayer for way too long.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:46:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2010 9:48:56 AM EDT by SaintMichaelArms]
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!


Education is a bubble, and will probably be the next to pop.


Not education per se, but the student loan holders. More and more will default on student loans if people can't find gainful employment.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:49:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!


Education is a bubble, and will probably be the next to pop.


Its a bubble because it has been subsidized by the taxpayer for way too long.


Although I do not, in theory, disagree with your sentiment...

Public education has always been subsidized by the public. Even in the 'good old days' the one room school house was planned, built and paid for by the local community.

The issue most people have is not in the subsidies. Culturally we agree that education benefits society, the contention is implementation and resource allocation.

Spending 40,000.00 to make a school ADA compliant so that one child can use the toilet is an example. The other would be the wholesale slavery of the educational system to the Athletic Department. Millions spent each year on stadiums, clothing, coaching staff, supplies, cheer leading, drill team, pep-rallies...

And when you do the math of how many kids go on to a career as a professional football player...?

Education, like any other system, has grown to protect and promote the system rather than anything else.

TRG
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:50:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!


Education is a bubble, and will probably be the next to pop.


Not education per se, but the student loan holders. More and more will default on student loans if people can't find gainful employment.


Last I heard, Obama had allocated two billion and taken over the student loan market. I don't have any links to back it up, but I am sure someone else will post them if needed.

TRG
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 10:07:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SaintMichaelArms:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!


Education is a bubble, and will probably be the next to pop.


Not education per se, but the student loan holders. More and more will default on student loans if people can't find gainful employment.


Possibly.

But another trend is the "career student". Get your undergrad and face a terrible job market and impending student loans? Go back to school for your grad degree. Get your grad degree? Go back and get another one.

Unless the rules have changed, you do not have to start paying back student loans until 6 months after graduation. Going back to school "resets" the clock.

This is happening quite a bit around my area.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 10:09:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
When I went to dental school, 25 years ago........tuition was $400 a year. University of Texas. What the hell is going on ?!!


Education is a bubble, and will probably be the next to pop.


Its a bubble because it has been subsidized by the taxpayer for way too long.


Although I do not, in theory, disagree with your sentiment...

Public education has always been subsidized by the public. Even in the 'good old days' the one room school house was planned, built and paid for by the local community.

The issue most people have is not in the subsidies. Culturally we agree that education benefits society, the contention is implementation and resource allocation.

Spending 40,000.00 to make a school ADA compliant so that one child can use the toilet is an example. The other would be the wholesale slavery of the educational system to the Athletic Department. Millions spent each year on stadiums, clothing, coaching staff, supplies, cheer leading, drill team, pep-rallies...

And when you do the math of how many kids go on to a career as a professional football player...?

Education, like any other system, has grown to protect and promote the system rather than anything else.

TRG


Football pays the bills. Athletics is part of the liberal arts theory of education. The well rounded man.

Most people, if they knew the truth, would hate the subsidies. Because you have college profs, who don't teach, making 170K a year and can never be fired.

Education can do whatever it wants, but having 100K given out in grants to a urban female LBGT studies PHD is bullshit when it is through federal taxes.
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