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Posted: 4/6/2017 12:50:07 PM EST
So the time has come. MARSCORSYSCOM has delivered the final results of the M27 competition.
The HK416 or current M27 IAR was nearly the least durable rifle submitted. The only thing the HK416 had over every other rifle entered was barrel life. The HK416 ran $3,000 per rifle and was the most expensive entrant. The results are...Surprising. Submitted rifles. Colt 09A: 
Colt 09B: No easily available photos, probably because it did so much worse than 09A. FNH 09C: 
H&K 09D: 
Results. 
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Posted: 4/6/2017 12:51:22 PM EST
[#1]
Isnt this what another poster got from a FOIA a month or two ago? or is this new info?
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Posted: 4/6/2017 12:51:38 PM EST
[#2]
Does this mean that you'll stop talking about their rifles?
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Posted: 4/6/2017 12:52:36 PM EST
[#3]
Breaking... lol
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Posted: 4/6/2017 12:55:13 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isnt this what another poster got from a FOIA a month or two ago? or is this new info? |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 12:55:19 PM EST
[#5]
416 a shit.
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Posted: 4/6/2017 12:55:53 PM EST
[#6]
So another procurement debacle where the military gets a pricey pig and some officers get nice jobs after they retire?
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Posted: 4/6/2017 12:56:33 PM EST
[#7]
Behold the piston-operated AR15, a solution in search of a problem.
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Posted: 4/6/2017 12:57:59 PM EST
[#8]
I guess we (Americans) haven't learned much.
Aloha, Mark |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:00:18 PM EST
[#9]
This is from a test in 2008/2009? Am I reading that right?
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:01:57 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So another procurement debacle where the military gets a pricey pig and some officers get nice jobs after they retire? 
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:03:12 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is from a test in 2008/2009? Am I reading that right? These are the test results. A further breakdown between Colt entrant A and HK entrant D. Colt - 20 stoppages per 20,000 rounds. H&K - 13 stoppages per 20,000 rounds. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:05:02 PM EST
[#12]
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:14:36 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So another procurement debacle where the military gets a pricey pig and some officers get nice jobs after they retire? |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:18:46 PM EST
[#14]
OP was making threads, praising the M27. Not very long ago.
Now he's posting anti-M27 threads. 
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:19:24 PM EST
[#15]
ITT: Beaking, Shocking, H&K IAR, & Joglee
NEVER would've seen this coming... |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:20:40 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So another procurement debacle where the military gets a pricey pig and some officers get nice jobs after they retire? |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:22:28 PM EST
[#17]
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:24:29 PM EST
[#18]
How many rounds does a regular big marine corp 0311 run through a carbine in a 3 year hump?
With qualification, a six month tour, etc |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:24:50 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP was making threads, praising the M27. Not very long ago. Now he's posting anti-M27 threads. I expected something different, but I also don't plan to withhold the data just because they didn't go the way I expected. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:25:54 PM EST
[#20]
The most recent tests used gen3 pmags and all the rifles showed improved reliability
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:28:40 PM EST
[#21]
who are the other competitors?
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:30:04 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
who are the other competitors? Interesting thing is the Class III on the Colts and FNH seem to be on par with what Battlefield Vegas sees. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:30:42 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The most recent tests used gen3 pmags and all the rifles showed improved reliability |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:32:42 PM EST
[#24]
Which UUT is 09D?
I don't see the breakdown of which UUT is what anywhere in the documents. They aren't identified by the UUT 09x codes anywhere that I can see. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:34:33 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which UUT is 09D? I don't see the breakdown of which UUT is what anywhere in the documents. They aren't identified by the UUT 09x codes anywhere that I can see. Colt 09B FN HAMR 09C HK 09D. Also here's the FN HAMR for those that haven't seen it. 
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:35:42 PM EST
[#26]
Who are competitors
C D E F H |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:37:55 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not anti M27, just posting the results. I expected something different, but I also don't plan to withhold the data just because they didn't go the way I expected. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:38:29 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So another procurement debacle where the military gets a pricey pig and some officers get nice jobs after they retire? 
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:38:54 PM EST
[#29]
The FN HAMR turned out to be shit HAMR'd flat.
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:39:12 PM EST
[#30]
Military procurement has been this way since 1865 . There were Spencer and Henry repeating rifles available and the military decided single shot was the way to go .
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:40:27 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The FN HAMR turned out to be shit HAMR'd flat. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:41:10 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I expected something different, but I also don't plan to withhold the data just because they didn't go the way I expected. 
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:41:24 PM EST
[#33]
ITT we find out that H&K hates both civilians and the military.
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:42:10 PM EST
[#34]
So the FN HAMR had the highest MRBF of any of them, but a very low estimated barrel life.
Combined with the detrimental effects to optics, thermals, and ATIPAL, it doesn't surprise me why it wasn't selected. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:44:30 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the FN HAMR had the highest MRBF of any of them, but a very low estimated barrel life. Combined with the detrimental effects to optics, thermals, and ATIPAL, it doesn't surprise me why it wasn't selected. The FN internals are perfectly designed for 5.56. I mean can we please just out the Mk16 bolt into the M4? It just breaks other things which is detrimental to the rifle. Like the stock, optics, laser, etc. However just sitting in a rest firing rounds I can easily see why it was the best. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:45:56 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How so? It had no Class III failures. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The FN HAMR turned out to be shit HAMR'd flat. Strangely the HK has 3 times the barrel life of the next best. Weird results to say the least... |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:48:42 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think he is reading the report correctly. It looks like the FN had 3 times as many rounds between type I&II failures as the next best and no type III failures at all. Strangely the HK has 3 times the barrel life of the next best. Weird results to say the least... |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:49:59 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think he is reading the report correctly. It looks like the FN had 3 times as many rounds between type I&II failures as the next best and no type III failures at all. Strangely the HK has 3 times the barrel life of the next best. Weird results to say the least... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The FN HAMR turned out to be shit HAMR'd flat. Strangely the HK has 3 times the barrel life of the next best. Weird results to say the least... |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:54:21 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is the HK barrel CHF and SBN? Best military barrel on the market imo....Well not the civilian market..... |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 1:58:27 PM EST
[#40]
What's the criteria for barrel end of life?
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Posted: 4/6/2017 2:00:54 PM EST
[#41]
Updated op with accurate photos of entered rifles.
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Posted: 4/6/2017 2:08:19 PM EST
[#42]
Strange that those are "estimated barrel life" and not actual - considering how many rounds they fired.
That must be some incredible steel that HK uses I guess. Unobtanium or Vibranium perhaps ? If those numbers are real then HK should win the contract for ALL BELT FED weapons. It would be worth the extra cost. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 2:09:59 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Strange that those are "estimated barrel life" and not actual - considering how many rounds they fired. That must be some incredible steel that HK uses I guess. Unobtanium or Vibranium perhaps ? If those numbers are real then HK should win the contract for ALL BELT FED weapons. It would be worth the extra cost. Honestly, without knowing that it looks like the Colt IAR was the better entrant, especially given it ran $1,400 per rifle vs $3,000 of the H&K. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 2:10:26 PM EST
[#44]
TL;DR
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Posted: 4/6/2017 2:15:28 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
MARSCORSYSCOM would not give me the "how" they attained that est. Barrel life.  They had to have something to hang the contract award on after all.
Considering that CHF barrels are not new tech and that other entrants also sported them the estimated barrel life is something I find hard to reconcile. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 2:15:49 PM EST
[#46]
Odd that the HK barrel had such a long life. Didn't the Battlefield Vegas guy report that his HK uppers shot their barrels out faster than anything else he had?
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Posted: 4/6/2017 2:18:22 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Odd that the HK barrel had such a long life. Didn't the Battlefield Vegas guy report that his HK uppers shot their barrels out faster than anything else he had? The civilian barrel H&K makes for the USA sucks ass. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 2:31:16 PM EST
[#48]
OP doesn't know how to read reports?
MRBF = Mean Rounds Between Failures. Higher numbers are better. The HK entrant (09D) got 2nd place in Class I and II and 3rd in class III and had the best barrel life. Based on these results, the HK makes the most sense as you are more likely to change out a barrel then have a Class III failure. Plus with a relatively high class I and II failure over the colt options its clearly better for the guys in the field. Altough I would have picked the FN. Not a single class III failure in all of testing? That's rather impressive. Still better barrel life than the colts and 5000 MRBF for class I and II, 4 times that of all the other entrants? Seems like a clear winner on this data. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 2:37:37 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This were the civilian barrels. They are different. The civilian barrel H&K makes for the USA sucks ass. "Like the famous HK416, the MR556A1 uses a German-made barrel produced by Heckler & Koch's famous cold hammer forging process. The highest quality steel is used in this unique manufacturing process producing a barrel that provides superior accuracy and long service life." According to HK it is not chrome lined but is otherwise exactly the same.
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Posted: 4/6/2017 2:39:59 PM EST
[#50]
At least FN worked out the FDE color-matching issue with the SCAR...
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