Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
User Panel

Site Notices
Posted: 2/21/2016 10:03:11 AM EDT
Sony Movie Channel

Get your DVR going if you've never seen it
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 10:20:54 AM EDT
[#1]
In before Rule .303.
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 11:30:23 AM EDT
[#2]
Biography of Harry 'Breaker' Harbord Morant

To the Rev. Canon Fisher
Pretoria
The night before we're shot
We shot the Boers who killed and mutilated
our friend (the best mate I had on Earth)
Harry Harbord Morant
Peter Joseph Handcock
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 11:32:07 AM EDT
[#3]
Great movie. The Brits seem to have the best when it comes to institutionalized stupidity.
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 11:32:31 AM EDT
[#4]
Biography of Harry 'Breaker' Harbord Morant

To the Rev. Canon Fisher
Pretoria
The night before we're shot
We shot the Boers who killed and mutilated
our friend (the best mate I had on Earth)
Harry Harbord Morant
Peter Joseph Handcock

Who is riding brown Harlequin now?

They are mustering cattle on Brigalow Vale
Where the stock-horses whinny and stamp,
And where long Andy Ferguson, you may go bail,
Is yet boss on a cutting-out camp.
Half the duffers I met would not know a fat steer
From a blessed old Alderney cow.
Whilst they're mustering there I am wondering here -
Who is riding brown Harlequin now?

Are the pikers as wild and the scrubs just as dense
In the brigalow country as when
There was never a homestead and never a fence
Between Brigalow Vale and The Glen?
Do they yard the big micks 'neath the light of the moon?
Do the yard-wings re-echo the row
Of stockwhips and hoof-beats? And what sort of coon
Is there riding old Harlequin now?

There was buckjumping blood in the brown gelding's veins,
But, lean-headed, with iron-like pins,
Of Pyrrhus and Panic he'd plentiful strains,
All their virtues, and some of their sins.
'Twas the pity, some said, that so shapely a colt
Fate should with such temper endow;
He would kick and would strike, he would buck and would bolt -
Ah! who's riding brown Harlequin now?

A demon to handle! a devil to ride!
Small wonder the surcingle burst;
You'd have thought that he'd buck himself out of his hide
On the morning we saddled him first.
I can mind how he cow-kicked the spur on my boot,
And though that's long ago, still I vow
If they're wheeling a piker no new-chum galoot
Is a-riding old Harlequin now!

I remember the boss - how he chuckled and laughed
When they yarded the brown colt for me:
"He'll be steady enough when we finish the graft
And have cleaned up the scrubs of Glen Leigh!'
I am wondering today if the brown horse yet live,
For the fellow who broke him, I trow,
A long lease of soul-ease would willingly give
To be riding brown Harlequin now!

'Do you think you can hold him?' old Ferguson said -
He was mounted on Homet, the grey;
I think Harlequin heard him - he shook his lean head,
And he needed no holding that day.
Not a prick from a spur, nor a sting from a whip
As he raced among deadwood and bough
While I sat fairly quiet and just let him rip -
But who's riding old Harlequin now?

I could hear 'em a-crashing the gidgee in front
As the Bryan colt streaked to the lead
Whilst the boss and the niggers were out of the hunt.
For their horses lacked Harlequin's speed;
The pikers were yarded and skies growing dim
When old Fergie was fain to allow:
'The colt's track through the scrub was a knocker' to him -
But who's riding brown Harlequin now?

From starlight to starlight - all day in between
The foam-flakes might fly from his bit,
But whatever the pace of the day's work had been,
The brown gelding was eager and fit.
On the packhorse's back they are fixing a load
Where the path climbs the hill's gloomy brow;
They are mustering bullocks to send on the road,
But - who's riding old Harlequin now?
Harry 'Breaker' Harbord Morant
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 11:44:35 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Great movie. The Brits seem to have the best when it comes to institutionalized stupidity.
View Quote

King's Cross Fire
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King's_Cross_fire
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 11:52:48 AM EDT
[#6]
Very good flick
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 11:53:47 AM EDT
[#7]
       RULE 303!
 
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 11:56:57 AM EDT
[#8]
Matthew 10:36

Jay
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 11:57:46 AM EDT
[#9]
Comcast/Xfinity has a library of free online movies for subscribers and this is one of them.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 11:58:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Shoot straight you bastards, don't make a mess of it!
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 11:58:56 AM EDT
[#11]
A great war movie, and a great courtroom film.

I have read, however, that Morant was much more of a loose cannon than the sympathetic character the film presents.
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 11:59:54 AM EDT
[#12]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


A great war movie, and a great courtroom film.



I have read, however, that Morant was much more of a loose cannon than the sympathetic character the film presents.
View Quote




 



Rule 303!
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 12:01:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

 

Rule 303!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
A great war movie, and a great courtroom film.

I have read, however, that Morant was much more of a loose cannon than the sympathetic character the film presents.

 

Rule 303!

LoL
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 12:01:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
A great war movie, and a great courtroom film.

I have read, however, that Morant was much more of a loose cannon than the sympathetic character the film presents.
View Quote



great movie

the guy who made the movie was surprised and dismayed that people saw Breaker Morant as a sympathetic character

but most people don't mentally process nuance

they need a hero in a movie
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 12:03:49 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Great movie. The Brits seem to have the best when it comes to institutionalized stupidity.
View Quote


Have you been paying attention to America the last 7 years?!

Link Posted: 2/21/2016 12:04:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Shoot straight you bastards, don't make a mess of it!
View Quote

Link Posted: 2/21/2016 12:11:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



great movie

the guy who made the movie was surprised and dismayed that people saw Breaker Morant as a sympathetic character

but most people don't mentally process nuance

they need a hero in a movie
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
A great war movie, and a great courtroom film.

I have read, however, that Morant was much more of a loose cannon than the sympathetic character the film presents.



great movie

the guy who made the movie was surprised and dismayed that people saw Breaker Morant as a sympathetic character

but most people don't mentally process nuance

they need a hero in a movie

Why would anyone not see him as sympathetic?  
I know --colonialism.  Evil empire.  
He was doing his duty
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 12:12:05 PM EDT
[#18]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
great movie



the guy who made the movie was surprised and dismayed that people saw Breaker Morant as a sympathetic character



but most people don't mentally process nuance



they need a hero in a movie
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

A great war movie, and a great courtroom film.



I have read, however, that Morant was much more of a loose cannon than the sympathetic character the film presents.






great movie



the guy who made the movie was surprised and dismayed that people saw Breaker Morant as a sympathetic character



but most people don't mentally process nuance



they need a hero in a movie




 






Rule 303!
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 12:12:35 PM EDT
[#19]
What little I've read about The Boer Wars, they used the very effective tactic the Confederates *had* adopted and used mid-point in the war; Sharpshooter battalions. The Boers made mincemeat of the Brits...at first

Someone here I'm sure, could certainly elaborate more on the subject better than I

But like the Confederacy of course, the Boers finally had to succumb to the overwhelming might of their foe
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 12:12:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 1:30:13 PM EDT
[#21]
tag
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 4:02:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
tag
View Quote

You would.
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 4:20:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What little I've read about The Boer Wars, they used the very effective tactic the Confederates *had* adopted and used mid-point in the war; Sharpshooter battalions. The Boers made mincemeat of the Brits...at first

Someone here I'm sure, could certainly elaborate more on the subject better than I

But like the Confederacy of course, the Boers finally had to succumb to the overwhelming might of their foe
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What little I've read about The Boer Wars, they used the very effective tactic the Confederates *had* adopted and used mid-point in the war; Sharpshooter battalions. The Boers made mincemeat of the Brits...at first

Someone here I'm sure, could certainly elaborate more on the subject better than I

But like the Confederacy of course, the Boers finally had to succumb to the overwhelming might of their foe


The Boers gave us the term Komando...... The Bushveldt Carbineers were assembled to a goodly extent from outback roughneck colonials to do the dirty work that needed to be done....the work
the Brits were not up to.

The Bushveldt Carbineers (BVC) were a short-lived, irregular mounted infantry regiment of the British Army, raised in South Africa during the Second Boer War.

The 320-strong regiment was formed in February 1901 and commanded by an Australian Colonel R. W. Lenehan. It was based at Pietersburg, 260 Kilometres north-east of Pretoria, and saw action in the Spelonken region of the Northern Transvaal during 1901–1902. About forty percent of the men in the BVC were Australians, and the regiment also included about forty surrendered Boers, known as "joiners", who had been recruited from the internment camps.


I am guessing that guys like Morant and Hunt gave the Brits what then needed to negotiate a favorable truce with the Boers.

No doubt the Brits who worried about their reputation and Lord Kitchner's wanted to write their own version of "history"


Link Posted: 2/21/2016 4:29:35 PM EDT
[#24]
"Nobody ever misses a slice off a cut loaf."

That was this one, wasn't it?
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 4:49:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Why would anyone not see him as sympathetic?  
I know --colonialism.  Evil empire.  
He was doing his duty
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A great war movie, and a great courtroom film.

I have read, however, that Morant was much more of a loose cannon than the sympathetic character the film presents.



great movie

the guy who made the movie was surprised and dismayed that people saw Breaker Morant as a sympathetic character

but most people don't mentally process nuance

they need a hero in a movie

Why would anyone not see him as sympathetic?  
I know --colonialism.  Evil empire.  
He was doing his duty

This is the guy that executed POWs right?
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 4:58:13 PM EDT
[#26]
This is what becomes of empire building...
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 5:38:52 PM EDT
[#27]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





This is the guy that executed POWs right?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

A great war movie, and a great courtroom film.



I have read, however, that Morant was much more of a loose cannon than the sympathetic character the film presents.






great movie



the guy who made the movie was surprised and dismayed that people saw Breaker Morant as a sympathetic character



but most people don't mentally process nuance



they need a hero in a movie


Why would anyone not see him as sympathetic?  

I know --colonialism.  Evil empire.  

He was doing his duty


This is the guy that executed POWs right?




 



Yeah.  That wasn't what got him jammed up.




He had a parson shot, who was German national and sympathetic to and likely helping the Boers.




Brits wanted to placate the Germans, who had a colony in the neighborhood at the time. (Pre WWI).
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 5:39:42 PM EDT
[#28]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This is what becomes of empire building...
View Quote




 



Empires are awesome, if you have the will to keep them standing.




When you don't, they come apart at the seams, overnight. (in historic context).
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 5:48:16 PM EDT
[#29]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





 



Yeah.  That wasn't what got him jammed up.





He had a parson shot, who was German national and sympathetic to and likely helping the Boers.





Brits wanted to placate the Germans, who had a colony in the neighborhood at the time. (Pre WWI).

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

A great war movie, and a great courtroom film.



I have read, however, that Morant was much more of a loose cannon than the sympathetic character the film presents.






great movie



the guy who made the movie was surprised and dismayed that people saw Breaker Morant as a sympathetic character



but most people don't mentally process nuance



they need a hero in a movie


Why would anyone not see him as sympathetic?  

I know --colonialism.  Evil empire.  

He was doing his duty


This is the guy that executed POWs right?


 



Yeah.  That wasn't what got him jammed up.





He had a parson shot, who was German national and sympathetic to and likely helping the Boers.





Brits wanted to placate the Germans, who had a colony in the neighborhood at the time. (Pre WWI).


Yes, the Brits were worried about riling up the Germans, who sympathetic to the Boers (who were descended from Dutch settlers).


Very good book on that war: "The Great Anglo-Boer War". . .by Byron Farwell











 
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 5:57:58 PM EDT
[#30]
I really like the movie but I had no idea until this thread it was based on people and events that actually occurred
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 6:26:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

This is the guy that executed POWs illegal combatants right?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A great war movie, and a great courtroom film.

I have read, however, that Morant was much more of a loose cannon than the sympathetic character the film presents.



great movie

the guy who made the movie was surprised and dismayed that people saw Breaker Morant as a sympathetic character

but most people don't mentally process nuance

they need a hero in a movie

Why would anyone not see him as sympathetic?  
I know --colonialism.  Evil empire.  
He was doing his duty

This is the guy that executed POWs illegal combatants right?

FIFY
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 9:55:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

 

Empires are awesome, if you have the will to keep them standing.


When you don't, they come apart at the seams, overnight. (in historic context).
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is what becomes of empire building...

 

Empires are awesome, if you have the will to keep them standing.


When you don't, they come apart at the seams, overnight. (in historic context).

My family benefitted greatly from the American Empire.
My grandfather was born a Spanish subject of Italian extraction.
He had a much better life when America took Puerto Rico
His sons all served in the US Army.  He himself was an electrician for the corps of engineers
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 10:01:32 PM EDT
[#33]

Link Posted: 2/21/2016 10:05:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

If that is an actual sticker, primus will,likely order a few.
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 10:05:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Great movie.
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 10:15:53 PM EDT
[#36]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





If that is an actual sticker, primus will,likely order a few.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





If that is an actual sticker, primus will,likely order a few.
He should wait until I do the actual cafepress design that says "RULE .303"



(because I'll run them on my vehicles too)



 
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 10:35:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
He should wait until I do the actual cafepress design that says "RULE .303"

(because I'll run them on my vehicles too)
 
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

If that is an actual sticker, primus will,likely order a few.
He should wait until I do the actual cafepress design that says "RULE .303"

(because I'll run them on my vehicles too)
 


PM me when you make.....i need one.
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 10:39:05 PM EDT
[#38]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
PM me when you make.....i need one.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:




If that is an actual sticker, primus will,likely order a few.
He should wait until I do the actual cafepress design that says "RULE .303"



(because I'll run them on my vehicles too)

 




PM me when you make.....i need one.




 



RULE 303!
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 10:54:52 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

 

RULE 303!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

If that is an actual sticker, primus will,likely order a few.
He should wait until I do the actual cafepress design that says "RULE .303"

(because I'll run them on my vehicles too)
 


PM me when you make.....i need one.

 

RULE 303!


Link Posted: 2/22/2016 2:57:14 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Why would anyone not see him as sympathetic?  
I know --colonialism.  Evil empire.  
He was doing his duty
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A great war movie, and a great courtroom film.

I have read, however, that Morant was much more of a loose cannon than the sympathetic character the film presents.



great movie

the guy who made the movie was surprised and dismayed that people saw Breaker Morant as a sympathetic character

but most people don't mentally process nuance

they need a hero in a movie

Why would anyone not see him as sympathetic?  
I know --colonialism.  Evil empire.  
He was doing his duty



You can read up on it if you like, there is plenty of information available at this point.

Basically, they belonged to an undisciplined army that sort of made a practice of looting boer farms and shooting boer prisoners.

But the practice was against their own legal code.

They were the ones who got caught, probably because they murdered a german missionary to keep him reporting the murder of other Boer prisoners.


You cannot say they were "scapegoated" because

1. They actually murdered the prisoners.

and

2. They were under no obligation to follow an illegal order.  As soon as they did the illegal act, they became part of the criminal conspiracy and were guilty.


Those two points were the basis of the Nuremburg trials after WWII.

There is no moral or legal way of excusing a crime by saying you were ordered to commit a crime.


So the other question is - were there higher officers who deserved to die with Morant?  Probably yes.


The movie makes it very plain that Morant had no moral or legal authority to kill the prisoners under the british military code.

That's what that mumbo jumbo about "rule 303" amounts to.

By saying that, he admits that there is no legal basis for summarily executing prisoners.

He's literally admitting that he did it as an expedient.


if you guys approve of killing POWs, then you must be a big fan of the Malmedy massacre.

I guess the germans could say the killed all the americans under "rule 8mm"

then you'd be all happy because there was a dorky little slogan associated with the crime
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 11:26:08 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


You can read up on it if you like, there is plenty of information available at this point.

Basically, they belonged to an undisciplined army that sort of made a practice of looting boer farms and shooting boer prisoners.

But the practice was against their own legal code.

They were the ones who got caught, probably because they murdered a german missionary to keep him reporting the murder of other Boer prisoners.


You cannot say they were "scapegoated" because

1. They actually murdered the prisoners.

and

2. They were under no obligation to follow an illegal order.  As soon as they did the illegal act, they became part of the criminal conspiracy and were guilty.


Those two points were the basis of the Nuremburg trials after WWII.

There is no moral or legal way of excusing a crime by saying you were ordered to commit a crime.


So the other question is - were there higher officers who deserved to die with Morant?  Probably yes.


The movie makes it very plain that Morant had no moral or legal authority to kill the prisoners under the british military code.

That's what that mumbo jumbo about "rule 303" amounts to.

By saying that, he admits that there is no legal basis for summarily executing prisoners.

He's literally admitting that he did it as an expedient.


if you guys approve of killing POWs, then you must be a big fan of the Malmedy massacre.

I guess the germans could say the killed all the americans under "rule 8mm"

then you'd be all happy because there was a dorky little slogan associated with the crime
View Quote


This has lots of anachronisms in it.

Both reprisal and summary executions were considered reasonable acts (I.e. Within international custom) until after WWII. For example, the reprisals against Italian civilians during the occupation of Rome were justified during the time after multiple attacks on German soldiers.

Rule 303 refers to the wildly referenced likely word of mouth order regarding reprisals and illegal combatants from Kitchener. It was very likely a "who will rid me of this troublesome priest" style statement, but most contemporary Imperial officers had referenced it.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 11:58:13 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This has lots of anachronisms in it.

Both reprisal and summary executions were considered reasonable acts (I.e. Within international custom) until after WWII. For example, the reprisals against Italian civilians during the occupation of Rome were justified during the time after multiple attacks on German soldiers.

Rule 303 refers to the wildly referenced likely word of mouth order regarding reprisals and illegal combatants from Kitchener. It was very likely a "who will rid me of this troublesome priest" style statement, but most contemporary Imperial officers had referenced it.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


You can read up on it if you like, there is plenty of information available at this point.

Basically, they belonged to an undisciplined army that sort of made a practice of looting boer farms and shooting boer prisoners.

But the practice was against their own legal code.

They were the ones who got caught, probably because they murdered a german missionary to keep him reporting the murder of other Boer prisoners.


You cannot say they were "scapegoated" because

1. They actually murdered the prisoners.

and

2. They were under no obligation to follow an illegal order.  As soon as they did the illegal act, they became part of the criminal conspiracy and were guilty.


Those two points were the basis of the Nuremburg trials after WWII.

There is no moral or legal way of excusing a crime by saying you were ordered to commit a crime.


So the other question is - were there higher officers who deserved to die with Morant?  Probably yes.


The movie makes it very plain that Morant had no moral or legal authority to kill the prisoners under the british military code.

That's what that mumbo jumbo about "rule 303" amounts to.

By saying that, he admits that there is no legal basis for summarily executing prisoners.

He's literally admitting that he did it as an expedient.


if you guys approve of killing POWs, then you must be a big fan of the Malmedy massacre.

I guess the germans could say the killed all the americans under "rule 8mm"

then you'd be all happy because there was a dorky little slogan associated with the crime


This has lots of anachronisms in it.

Both reprisal and summary executions were considered reasonable acts (I.e. Within international custom) until after WWII. For example, the reprisals against Italian civilians during the occupation of Rome were justified during the time after multiple attacks on German soldiers.

Rule 303 refers to the wildly referenced likely word of mouth order regarding reprisals and illegal combatants from Kitchener. It was very likely a "who will rid me of this troublesome priest" style statement, but most contemporary Imperial officers had referenced it.



I believe you are mistaken - there was no sanction under English military law for shooting prisoners

the lawyer for morant could not even find evidence for an unofficial order

or for germans, the prosecutors at Nuremburg made great hay out of the fact that shooting civillians was specifically illegal under german law
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 12:33:57 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I believe you are mistaken - there was no sanction under English military law for shooting prisoners

the lawyer for morant could not even find evidence for an unofficial order

or for germans, the prosecutors at Nuremburg made great hay out of the fact that shooting civillians was specifically illegal under german law
View Quote


The Nuremburg prosecutors made great hay out of creating case law from whole cloth. Reprisals were indeed legal and customary in the specific case of the Roman reprisals but the Germans made such an appealing enemy that all sorts of Italian legal fictions (but I repeat myself) were made to justify their prosecution. The German law was specific for domestic operations. US military allows as a legal (though not functionally, and certainly not lethally) reprisal as justifiable.

Second, its not like the lawyer for Morant had an exceedingly long period of time to generate a defense.

The difference between what the British were doing with the Boers and what the British did (after WWII, no less) during the Mau Mau Rebellion was that the Boer War included white people as belligerents. To claim that the British were somehow more restrained 50 years prior beggars belief.

The BVC were commanded by Kitchener's own -2, Captain Taylor. Both of Morant's superiors (including Taylor) and Kitchner's own CoS had asked why he had taken prisoners in the past, and that they should be shot.

Link Posted: 2/22/2016 12:54:59 PM EDT
[#44]
The Boers wore civilian clothes or capture bits of British Khaki uniforms, conducted raids behind the lines or at night.  By all standards of warfare at the time, they could be executed.  The Brits were not squeamish about such things.  They rounded up thousands of civilians,tossed them in camps, burned their farms and killed the livestock.  many civilians died.  Trying to apply post WW2 standards to the Boer war is kinda silly.

The priest was bad juju.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 12:55:40 PM EDT
[#45]
Morant & Handcock are asked if they want the priest.


Morant: "No, thank you. I'm a pagan."    

Handcock: "What's a pagan?"    

Morant: "Well, it's somebody who doesn't believe there's a divine being dispensing justice to mankind."    

Handcock: "I'm a pagan, too."
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 1:40:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The Boers wore civilian clothes or capture bits of British Khaki uniforms, conducted raids behind the lines or at night.  By all standards of warfare at the time, they could be executed.  The Brits were not squeamish about such things.  They rounded up thousands of civilians,tossed them in camps, burned their farms and killed the livestock.  many civilians died.  Trying to apply post WW2 standards to the Boer war is kinda silly.

The priest was bad juju.
View Quote


By current standards, they could be, too. Wearing enemy uniforms or civilian clothes is perfidy, and the ICRC isn't really going to care if there is some kind of competent tribunal that tries and executes the wearers.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 1:45:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The Nuremburg prosecutors made great hay out of creating case law from whole cloth. Reprisals were indeed legal and customary in the specific case of the Roman reprisals but the Germans made such an appealing enemy that all sorts of Italian legal fictions (but I repeat myself) were made to justify their prosecution. The German law was specific for domestic operations. US military allows as a legal (though not functionally, and certainly not lethally) reprisal as justifiable.

Second, its not like the lawyer for Morant had an exceedingly long period of time to generate a defense.

The difference between what the British were doing with the Boers and what the British did (after WWII, no less) during the Mau Mau Rebellion was that the Boer War included white people as belligerents. To claim that the British were somehow more restrained 50 years prior beggars belief.

The BVC were commanded by Kitchener's own -2, Captain Taylor. Both of Morant's superiors (including Taylor) and Kitchner's own CoS had asked why he had taken prisoners in the past, and that they should be shot.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

I believe you are mistaken - there was no sanction under English military law for shooting prisoners

the lawyer for morant could not even find evidence for an unofficial order

or for germans, the prosecutors at Nuremburg made great hay out of the fact that shooting civillians was specifically illegal under german law


The Nuremburg prosecutors made great hay out of creating case law from whole cloth. Reprisals were indeed legal and customary in the specific case of the Roman reprisals but the Germans made such an appealing enemy that all sorts of Italian legal fictions (but I repeat myself) were made to justify their prosecution. The German law was specific for domestic operations. US military allows as a legal (though not functionally, and certainly not lethally) reprisal as justifiable.

Second, its not like the lawyer for Morant had an exceedingly long period of time to generate a defense.

The difference between what the British were doing with the Boers and what the British did (after WWII, no less) during the Mau Mau Rebellion was that the Boer War included white people as belligerents. To claim that the British were somehow more restrained 50 years prior beggars belief.

The BVC were commanded by Kitchener's own -2, Captain Taylor. Both of Morant's superiors (including Taylor) and Kitchner's own CoS had asked why he had taken prisoners in the past, and that they should be shot.




it's been a long time since I was up to speed in the specifics of this event

but, the fact remains that everyone who could disavow participation these killings did so

and the three defendants were sentenced to death for it by the british

that doesn't jive with your assertion that the brits had a policy or legally sanctioned the killings

if they were killing prisoners then it was an illegal "take good care of those prisoners wink wink" kind of deal




Link Posted: 2/22/2016 11:17:36 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The Boers wore civilian clothes or capture bits of British Khaki uniforms, conducted raids behind the lines or at night.  By all standards of warfare at the time, they could be executed.  The Brits were not squeamish about such things.  They rounded up thousands of civilians,tossed them in camps, burned their farms and killed the livestock.  many civilians died.  Trying to apply post WW2 standards to the Boer war is kinda silly.

The priest was bad juju.
View Quote

This is what I was thinking.  Illegal combatants were summarily shot back then is my understanding
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 10:41:09 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


By current standards, they could be, too. Wearing enemy uniforms or civilian clothes is perfidy, and the ICRC isn't really going to care if there is some kind of competent tribunal that tries and executes the wearers.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Boers wore civilian clothes or capture bits of British Khaki uniforms, conducted raids behind the lines or at night.  By all standards of warfare at the time, they could be executed.  The Brits were not squeamish about such things.  They rounded up thousands of civilians,tossed them in camps, burned their farms and killed the livestock.  many civilians died.  Trying to apply post WW2 standards to the Boer war is kinda silly.

The priest was bad juju.


By current standards, they could be, too. Wearing enemy uniforms or civilian clothes is perfidy, and the ICRC isn't really going to care if there is some kind of competent tribunal that tries and executes the wearers.

I always wondered why ISIS and AQ couldn't be dispatched on the battlefield
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 10:47:38 AM EDT
[#50]
Shoot straight, you bastards... don't make a mess of it.
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top