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Posted: 12/15/2002 12:26:13 PM EDT
Experiences? Opinons? Observations? as to it's practicality as a component of your self-defense package?
Link Posted: 12/19/2002 8:06:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2002 6:21:54 PM EDT by James4]
The greatest weakness on Brazilian full contact Judo (no its not {freakin'} Ju-Jitsu!!!) is that its geared to one on one fighting with a heavy emphasis on ground fighting.  This is great if you want to go into a cage and pound on ONE GUY and there's no possibility of weapons getting involved or multiple attackers.  Think about it, your rolling around on the ground with a guy trying to get him in your "mount" when his buddy come running up behind you with a knife...  Whats going to happen??

I like Danzan Ryu JuJitsu the best, but then I'm probably a little biased.

{Edited down to PG-13.  The only word we allow that begins with "F" and ends in "UCK" is fire-truck.}
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 1:23:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2002 1:24:06 AM EDT by Beachboy]
That's an interesting point.  What are the advantages of the style/system that you mention, Danzan Ryu JuJitsu?  
Links to information or sites that you'd suggest to investigate?

Link Posted: 12/20/2002 11:49:38 AM EDT
I've been involved in martial arts for little over 3 years now with a central base in Tae Kwon Do.  I train under two classic instructors, on TKD, the other a 7 stripe in Shorin Joru karate.  My favorite trainer is a  mixed martial artist who has trained in it all: grappling, karate, TKD, Muay Thai, and without a doubt has the best all around skills; my sternum is still sore from last night's workout. My point in this all around ramble is that no one art is the answer; Bruce Lee was right: start with a central core, then add to it from other styles and disciplines what works for you.  As others hae pointed out, Gracey styles emphasize grappling skills, and they were dominant for a while in UFC - until weaknesses were exploited, then another style, and so on.  We could all learn a lot from the Graceys, but we need to keep an eye on the Big Picture and not get too locked in one discipline.
Link Posted: 12/25/2002 7:10:57 PM EDT

Virtually any legitimate Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu school will let you try out a couple of classes for free.

People who only know Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu from its stunning success in the area of full-contact fighting matches are ignorant of the fact that it is a complete self-defense *system*.

In addition to it's awesome bone breaking techniques and chokes, it contains striking, kicking, weapons defense, and defense against multiple attackers.

If you wanted info about AR's would you ask some duck hunter who'd never owned one?  Of course not.  Get info about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu from someone who actually holds legitimate rank in the art.

Don't be fooled by imitators!  Every strip-mall McDojo in the country has painted "Grappling" on their window in recent years.  

If someone tells you they hold rank in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, don't believe them.  Ask who awarded them the rank.  They will be more than happy to tell you.  That instructor will be more than happy to confirm it if you call them.

Go to the school near you and try it.  You don't need any special gear or have to be in great condition.  Just try it.  

It's free and I guarantee the people you meet there will be some of the nicest, most down-to-earth martial artists you'll ever meet.

Link Posted: 12/28/2002 6:17:14 PM EDT
BJJ is good if you don't want to study the other two phases of Ju Jitsu.  And when you get a boot to the head while you are ground fighting in the parking lot don't cry to me.  If you train for two you can fight one, not the other way around.  Just my biased $02.

Visit Reddragonjujitsu.com
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 12:52:45 AM EDT
cross training is king, but if you can only take one take the Brazillian Ju Jitsu. It is not full contact Judo in any way shape or form, Judo is in fact watered down Ju Jitsu, Ju Jitsu turned into a sport with the emphasis on throws. I have trained with 6 different Gracie Brothers, though not Royce. Renzo is the biggest name I have spent time with. GJJ is in fact a great defensive martial art, or offensive if needed. They teach that going to the ground is often the best way to win a fight, but not always the best option, for instance prison guards don't really want to go to the ground when surrounded by con's, but if they do have to (which is often) at least GJJ will give you a far better chance of winning.
As for the UFC, take out the stupid gloves first off, then the time limit, and then the weight classes. You may still some of the top fighters stay on top, but a lot would fall, and fall fast to smaller guys. If you take two guys and one guy is a steriod monkey trained to defend GJJ (or similar styles) and he is fighting an average size guy of the same weight, the stronger guy will typically win, because he can hold of the other guy longer and wear him out, the other guy has to be hugely superior in talent and ability to overcome someone who is just there to defend, and then smash when the other guy is tired. But in this game that is a fair way to fight. But on the street you are not typically going to be attacked by steriod monkeys who are just there to defend, so the GJJ if you have any is going to be a huge advantage. I know this sounds kind of mixed up, but it is hard to explain exactly what I mean. Tomorrow when I am awake I will try to clean this up.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 6:06:25 PM EDT
BushmasterDan is right, I have 33 years in Karate and Juijitsu and a friend has like 50+ in Judo and Jujitsu. We  were talking about Gracie Juijitsu a few years back. He said all their moves have been arond ofor years. It was nothing new.
 I had a private student that had trained personally with Rorion Gracie when he first came to Kali. HE was good on the ground, but had little defense against multiple strikes. And could only deal with one attacker at a time.
  I taught him how to bridge the attack gap and how to go against multiple attackers.
  GRacie Juijitsu is an aspect, of self defense, not the whole picture
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 6:50:34 PM EDT
I was tussling (friendly-like) with a Gracie style student once, and he got me in a mount position.  I proceeded to feign a nasty strike to his nuts to get the point across that he wasn't in a good position, and he informed me with a straight face that "that sort of thing wasn't allowed".   [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 3:20:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2002 4:44:05 PM EDT by James4]
you guys don't know {jack} about what you are talking about. Groin strikes are not only allowed in the Gracie classes, they are taught, and defenses taught as well, as are multiple attackers and knife and gun threats as well. True for the most part the moves they teach have been around for years, the difference is, Judo tossed the moves out as it became more and more a display sport for the Olympics. Karate, and other striking arts, focused on simply punching and kicking. What the Brazil boys did was redo a martial art that was simply interested in winning fights, through any means necessary. And the simple fact of the matter is, most street fights go to the ground anyhow. They have proven time and time again, as have others following in their footsteps, that if you put a striker against a groundfighter, the striker will lose time and time again, if you put a striker/groundfighter against an equally talented groundfighter, typically the combo artist will win. But in no cases will a simple standup striker win, and in fact I have yet to see a karate fighter (something I have 15 years of experience doing) win a real fight against just about anyone with a moderate amount of training in groundfighting. Hell even highschool wrestlers beat most stand up guys in parking lot brawls. Spouting off, I know a guy who knows a guy is a BS way of defending a defensless position. As well taking someone who has only trained a little bit in any martial art and expecting them to know every position perfectly is ludicrous. Sure you could groin strike me when I am in the mount on you, others have done it to, but then I will smash your face for doing it. The mount has been proven time and time again to be the simply most dominant position in any hand to hand fight, with the exception of the same position on your back (stomach on the ground me mounted on your back). That is the only position that is more devastating in a fight. If you want to be able to form opinions on a martial art, at least do it first. I have.

Edited to reduce the rating to PG-13
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 6:42:20 AM EDT

If you wanted info about AR's would you ask some duck hunter who'd never owned one?

Of course not.

Get info about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu from someone who actually holds legitimate rank in the art.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 4:46:18 PM EDT
C'mon ya-guys, no swearing...don't make me try to figure out how to lock a thread.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 5:28:43 PM EDT
Well, I have already said I know little of martial arts (I am the "fitness" side of this forum).  However, I shall attempt to analytically

Your survival from any unarmed, semi-armed (one party has a weapon), or bi-armed (both parties have weapons, but not necessarily the same weapon) seems to be a function of the following...

your mindset
your awareness
your conditioning
any weapons at your disposal
the environment you find yourself in
the applicability of the moves you execute (how good is the move)
how well you execute that move
how many friends you have with you
your luck
...as well as...
your adversary's mindset
your adversary's awareness
your adversary's conditioning
any weapons at your adversary's disposal
the environment your adversary finds him/herself in
the applicability of the moves your adversary executes (how good is the move)
how well your adversary executes that move
how many friends your adversary brings with him/her
his/her luck

Lots of variables.

It seems that only the "applicability of the moves" really has anything to do with which art is being used.  Moreover, "good applicability" can be overpowered by weakness in other areas or your adversary/ies comparative strength in same or other areas.  

Competition is good training for real life.  Otherwise why shoot IDPA or 3-gun?  If competition wasn't a motivator towards quality, why would the military keep qualification scores?

On the other hand, people can specialize towards competition and diminish the "combative" value of their art.  

Since 99% of the sparing and other testing of moves is done against people trained in the same art, all of the arts are pretty incestuous and probably have gaping holes in them when viewed through the prism of a different art.  That will always be the case unless some sort of cross-pollenization occurs.  Competition fosters that too.

In short, there is no one best art and other aspects of the situation (conditioning, etc.) will contribute to success as much as the art itself.  Moreover, competition is a good way to bring out the best in both an art as well as the person practicing the art.

Let's use this thread to explain the philosophy and "how BJJ works."  How people have combined it with other arts would also be valuable.

Link Posted: 12/30/2002 6:00:32 PM EDT
sorry about the swearing, I'd seen it in other discussions here, thought it was ok, thanks for replacing the offending word with a more appropriate one.
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