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Posted: 1/9/2006 8:08:49 PM EDT
Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence: Why America Should Care that Judge Alito Would Have Struck Down Federal Ban on Machine Guns

1/9/2006 12:26:00 PM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: National Desk

Contact: Peter Hamm of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, 202-898-0792

WASHINGTON, Jan. 9 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Judge Samuel A. Alito's judicial views pose serious dangers to the safety of our communities, our families, and our children, as evidenced by his troubling dissent in U.S. v. Rybar, 103 F.3d 273 (3rd Cir. 1996). For this reason, the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence announced its opposition to Judge Alito's nomination to the United States Supreme Court last month. (It is the first time in its history that the Brady Center has opposed a Supreme Court nomination.)

In the Rybar case, Judge Alito concluded that the federal machine gun ban is an unconstitutional exercise of Congressional power under the Commerce Clause. Alito attempted to erect arbitrary hurdles to Congressional efforts to reduce the availability of machine guns to the criminal element. In unusually harsh language, the Rybar majority criticized Alito's dissent as having "no authority" in the law and "run(ning) counter to the deference that the judiciary owes to its two coordinate branches of government...."

If Judge Alito's view had prevailed, the federal ban on machine gun possession would have been struck down. Apart from the fact that Judge Alito's position in Rybar was legally indefensible, it also is fair to ask: If Alito's view had prevailed in the federal courts, what would have been the real world consequences for the American people?

As shown by the cases described below, if federal authorities were unable to bring charges of machine gun possession against violent criminals, it would increase the risk of injury and death, particularly to law enforcement personnel who must face gun-wielding criminals on a daily basis.

First, we present examples of actual criminal use of machine guns to kill, injure and threaten law enforcement officers. As these cases demonstrate, it is difficult to imagine a more horrifying scenario for our police than a criminal armed with a fully automatic weapon that can fire hundreds of rounds in seconds.

Second, we present examples of successful federal prosecutions of violent criminals, including drug lords, white supremacists and terrorists, for violation of the machine gun possession statute. In each case, the statute was used to put these criminals behind bars before they could commit violent attacks on police and other citizens.

Under federal sentencing guidelines, a violation of the federal machine gun possession ban alone means up to 5 years behind bars, but in combination with other offenses can dramatically increase prison time. For example, possession of a machine gun in furtherance of a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime carries an automatic 30-year prison term.

Machine Gun Shootings

North Hollywood, California -- Bank of America Robbery

On February 28, 1997, bank robbers Larry Eugene Phillips, Jr. and Emil Dechebal Matasareanu turned North Hollywood, California into a war zone. During a botched robbery of a Bank of America, in which they wore body armor and carried fully automatic machine guns (with a trunk full of spare ammunition clips and additional machine guns in their getaway car), they ended up engaging in a massive firefight with police.

Once they were surrounded at the bank, they fired armor- piercing bullets at anything that moved -- about 1,100 rounds in the course of an hour -- wounding 11 Los Angeles police officers and 7 bystanders in the process. The two assailants completely outgunned the first group of responding officers, wounding 9 officers and 3 civilians in the first 5 minutes of the firefight. Their machine-gun firepower was so immense that it ultimately took 350 police officers, including SWAT teams and armored personnel carriers, and more than an hour to kill them in the siege. This was one of the most violent shootouts in U.S. history.

Waco, Texas -- Branch Davidian Shootout

Perhaps even more notorious than the West Hollywood shootout, the 51-day government siege of David Koresh's Branch Davidian complex near Waco, Texas on February 28, 1993, was initiated because the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) learned that Koresh and his followers had been converting semi-automatic weapons into illegal fully automatic machine guns.

A large group of federal agents, attempting to execute a search warrant of the Branch Davidian compound were met by a hail of machine gun fire from Koresh's followers. Four officers were killed and twenty were wounded in the ensuing firefight. (Many other Branch Davidians were killed by their own gunfire.) Koresh's followers had access to a much larger arsenal than the two North Hollywood bank robbers, and it required the government to bring in an army of federal agents and very heavy firepower to subdue the Davidian compound.

Newington, Connecticut -- Officer Slain By M16 Machine Gun

Officer Peter Lavery of the Newington Police Department was slain on December 30, 2004 during a response to a domestic violence dispute. As Lavery and his backup descended into the cellar of the residence where the dispute occurred, he was fired on and killed with a fully automatic M16 machine gun, the weapon used by US armed forces.

West Virginia -- Marijuana Growers Fire Machine Gun at West Virginia State Police

On September 1, 1999, the West Virginia State Police Special Response Team and other law enforcement officers entered a heavily wooded area to apprehend two marijuana growers -- Bobby Wayne Hager and Everett Hager. Police were able to arrest and handcuff Bobby Wayne Hager without being shot at, but as he was being handcuffed, Bobby Wayne shouted, "Everett, they're coming to get you. Everett, they're coming to get you." Shortly thereafter, Everett opened fire on law enforcement officers with a fully automatic SKS machine gun. Luckily, Everett did not hit any of the officers, and he was arrested. Both Bobby Wayne and Everett were charged and convicted under federal law with unlawful possession of a machine gun and other crimes.

San Juan, Puerto Rico -- Drug Lords Shoot Two Federal Officers

Drug lords with ties to the both the Cali and Medellin cartels in Colombia were involved in trafficking cocaine from Colombia to Puerto Rico and New York. In the course of carrying out numerous federal crimes, defendant and his conspirators fired on and seriously wounded two federal agents with automatic weapons. On defendant's orders, members of the conspiracy murdered another individual.

Machine Gun Prosecutions

Tyler, Texas -- Antigovernment Terrorist Planning Assault on IRS Building Sought to Procure an Arsenal of Automatic Weapons

Charles Ray Polk was a car salesman in Tyler, Texas and boasted of a desire to blow up federal buildings and kill federal employees. Polk identified himself as "third in command" of an organization he identified as "Constitutional America." In 1995, Polk sought to procure an arsenal of automatic weapons and explosives from undercover agents, to be used in coordinated assaults on IRS buildings in Austin, Texas.

Polk stated that he and his group planned to blow up the federal buildings and then enlist mercenaries who knew how to use M-60 and Uzi machine guns and who "don't mind shooting people if they get in the way." The defendant compiled a small arsenal of nearly 50 weapons and then paid an undercover federal agent to secure plastic explosives, machine guns and rocket propelled grenades as well as hand grenades. He had detailed information about the Austin building and a clear plan for where explosives should be placed to ensure the building was destroyed. When an undercover agent asked him about the innocent people who would die during his plan the defendant replied: "Doesn't hurt my feelings," and "all I can say, gentlemen, is shit happens." The defendant also possessed a map detailing other I.R.S. buildings in other cities the defendant planned to target after the Austin bombing.

Polk was convicted of violating the federal ban on machine gun possession. Polk argued that the ban was an unconstitutional violation of the U.S. Constitution's Commerce Clause. The 5th Circuit rejected this view and upheld his conviction.

Southern Illinois -- White Supremacists Intending to Rob Banks and Armored Cars and Carry Out Assassinations Convicted of Machine Gun Possession

Defendants were founding members of the "New Order," a white supremacist group that sought to "unit(e) white supremacist groups in a violent struggle against those would resist the creation of a 'pure white Christian country.'" McGiffen, the lead coordinator who was also a Grand Dragon in the Illinois Ku Klux Clan "regularly used...force to maintain members' allegiance." McGiffen threatened to kill one member if he ever talked to anyone about their group again after the member told his mother about their plans. The group decided to carry out a string of robberies of banks and armored cars to finance their scheme. The group stockpiled weapons and was particularly fond of automatic weapons "for their destructive capability." The group accumulated a significant stockpile of weapons -- including several automatic weapons, a rocket, dynamite and homemade hand grenades to carry out the assassination of Morris Dees and the destruction of the Southern Poverty Law Center and other crimes. Thankfully, federal authorities arrested the defendants before they could carry out their plans.

Mississippi -- Leader of Vice Lords Gang Arrested With Machine Gun

Michael Starnes, leader of a gun trafficking gang known as the "Unknown Vice Lords," was arrested after firing gunshots into a trailer home in retaliation for a shooting involving of one of his gang members. Police seized more than a dozen guns from the motel room where he was apprehended, his car, and his apartment, including a fully automatic AR--15 machine gun. Starnes had committed so many offenses that he was sentenced to 145 years in prison.

Georgia -- Arsenal of Automatic Weapons and Pipe Bombs Accumulated By Member of Private Militia Terrified of "New World Order"

Donald Wayne Wright claimed he was "spooked" by the threat of the "New World Order," so he began stockpiling automatic weapons and ammunition and pipe bombs and meeting with members of a "militia." He intended to keep his arsenal until the "threat" of the new world order and the devil arose and it was time to fight.

Federal authorities, who received a tip that Wright wanted to know how to reassemble a .50 caliber machine gun, obtained a warrant to search his premises. They uncovered a huge arsenal, including several machine guns, pipe bombs, 2300 rounds of ammunition, M16 rifle parts, a booby trap device, a handgun, several semi-automatic rifles, The Anarchists' Cookbook, several pieces of literature on weapons and military skills, as well as several pieces of right-wing propaganda materials.

Montana -- Convicted Felon Threatened Federal Agents With Machine Gun

David Burgart, a convicted felon on bail on a charge of felony assault of a police officer was apprehended after he failed to show up at a pre-trial conference. He was found at a Montana camping area where he and others who were a part of a militia group were "stockpiling weapons, ammunition and survival gear." The defendant attempted to flee from authorities again and after a seven-hour standoff during which he threatened federal agents with the machine gun he possessed, Burgart was arrested.

California -- North Valley Jewish Community Center Assailant Buford Furrow Also Charged With Machine Gun Possession

Buford Furrow, the white supremacist who embarked on a hate- crime spree in California in 1999, murdering US postal worker Joseph Ileto and shooting five individuals at the North Valley Jewish Community Center, was also charged with illegal possession of a machine gun.

Mississippi -- Convicted Felon Apprehended With Arsenal of Sixty Guns, Including Machine Guns

J.R. Morgan was a convicted felon who came to the attention of federal authorities when a gun used in a crime was traced back to him. The defendant had nearly sixty firearms at his home, including a machine gun and a silencer. He liked to frequent gun shows where he would buy and resell guns without a license.

Illinois -- Bank Robber and Murderer Acquired Arsenal of Machine Guns

Gary T. Whitlow, a bank robber and murderer, was convicted of ten counts of possessing machine guns, including M16s, M1919s, an MP40, and an Eagle Arms M15. All the weapons were capable of automatic fire. He acquired the guns by buying some of them, and ordered accomplices to steal some others from a storage center. One accomplice testified he feared that Whitlow would kill him if he named him.

Michigan -- Drug Dealer Had Nearly 90 Firearms at His Home

Defendant Ronald Napolean Wolfe had a marijuana growing operation at his home. Upon executing a search officers found and seized 86 firearms, including multiple machine guns.

Indiana -- Bank Robbers Used Machine Guns

Criss Duncan and Ralph Berkey robbed the National City Bank in Leesburg, Indiana in 2003. Each was armed with assault rifles modified to be fully automatic.

Texas -- Cocaine Traffickers Pulled Machine Gun on Federal Officers

Enrique Gonzales Jr. and his co-defendants were engaged in a cocaine trafficking ring in Houston, Texas. When federal agents initiated an undercover drug buy to arrest them, one of the co- defendants pulled a machine gun and threatened to fire, but was persuaded to put the gun down by an officer who had his police pistol trained directly on him.

Illinois -- Convicted Felon Set Up Phony Corporation in Attempt to Evade Firearms Laws

Joseph Fleischli, who had previously been convicted of four felonies, tried to set up a sham firearms manufacturing company in the names of his father- and mother-in-law. Fleischli had previously been denied a federal firearms license by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives. Once law enforcement became aware of Fleischli's scheme, they searched his premises and found numerous illegal machine guns and explosive devices.

North Dakota -- Methamphetamine Dealer Prosecuted For Possessing More Than 50 Firearms, Including a Machine Gun and Street Sweeper Shotgun

Mark Backer owned a shop where he sold methamphetamines and other drugs on the side. Upon executing a search warrant, officers discovered a large cache of firearms, including a machine gun, Street Sweeper shotgun, and a gun with an obliterated serial number.

Montana -- Drug Traffickers Possessed Machine Guns and Tools For Converting Weapons Into Fully Automatic Firearms

Two drug traffickers, Patrick Neiss and James Daychild, were charged with numerous drug and gun violations, including for machine gun possession. At the house that served as their site of operation agents found several semi-automatic firearms, a semi-automatic rifle that had been converted into a machine gun, and all of the tools and materials necessary to convert other semi-automatic weapons into fully automatic firearms. The court found "ominous" evidence that defendants posed a "definite danger" to the community.

Tennessee -- Gun Collector Assembled Machine Guns from Parts "Kits" Obtained Through the Mail

A federal drug task force executing a search warrant found four machine guns in the possession of Bobby Fisher, who admitted to assembling them from parts "kits" he ordered through an advertisement in Shotgun News.

http://www.usnewswire.com/

-0-

/© 2006 U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:11:52 PM EDT
Oh, yeah, like I'm going to take the time to read that ox stomach.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:15:16 PM EDT
Everytime the Brady bunch opens their big soup cooler I buy another gun... I think I will get a fifty this time!
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:17:52 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:18:11 PM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:20:02 PM EDT
Well if the Brady's dont like him, he must be on hell of a good Judge
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:20:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Well if the Brady's dont like him, he must be on hell of a good Judge



Bingo!

Hit the phones and call your senators in support!
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:21:52 PM EDT
I'm going to be watching tommorrow to see him against Finesine, chuckles the clown, and Boris Kennedy.

Is their a published schedule when each Senator gets thier time?
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:22:46 PM EDT
yeah im betting everyone that list will rush right out with form 1s and a set of prints to the sheriffs office if the 86 ban is struck down
fucktards
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:23:21 PM EDT
Check C-SPAN and post back here
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 11:07:28 PM EDT
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:13:13 AM EDT
I would really like someone, who's voice would be heard,
to stand up in some public forum and point out how
that in many of those events the firearms were illegally attained.

I know for a fact that the weapons used in the Hollywood shootout were
illegally snuck accross the border .
Then when the CA police previously arrested these people on other
charges,they confiscated the same weapons that were later used in the
robbery.
They took illegally attained weapons from illegal immigrants that
already had a criminal record ,and then gave them right back !

(One was from Romania ,I forget where the other was from)

Then later they used it as a reason to ban legally owned weapons !

WTF !

Instead of this list being used to ban weapons ,they should be a list of
reasons to put up a wall at the border ,and have stiffer sentences
for those who are convicted of criminal acts !
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:17:46 AM EDT
Hey Sarah.... go tend to your vegetable.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:53:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cobrasks:
I would really like someone, who's voice would be heard,
to stand up in some public forum and point out how
that in many of those events the firearms were illegally attained.

I know for a fact that the weapons used in the Hollywood shootout were
illegally snuck accross the border .
Then when the CA police previously arrested these people on other
charges,they confiscated the same weapons that were later used in the
robbery.
They took illegally attained weapons from illegal immigrants that
already had a criminal record ,and then gave them right back !

(One was from Romania ,I forget where the other was from)

Then later they used it as a reason to ban legally owned weapons !

WTF !

Instead of this list being used to ban weapons ,they should be a list of
reasons to put up a wall at the border ,and have stiffer sentences
for those who are convicted of criminal acts !




FucknA.

Out of the millions and millions of legal, responsible gun owners, their list of crimes and intended crimes with fully-automatic weapons is tiny, at best.

Man, some people are so stupid I swear they have to be reminded to breathe. I wish someone would forget to tell them.

Banning guns in response to crime is like fucking your sister: feels good, but you're still a moron.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:16:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Well if the Brady's dont like him, he must be on hell of a good Judge



That is all I really need to know.


I am not reading through their lies and half truths.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:20:33 AM EDT
I wonder if Sarah Brady came up with that tag line while she was cleaning her un registered pistol in her nightstand...

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:27:28 AM EDT

Four officers were killed and twenty were wounded in the ensuing firefight. (Many other Branch Davidians were killed by their own gunfire.) Koresh's followers had access to a much larger arsenal than the two North Hollywood bank robbers, and it required the government to bring in an army of federal agents and very heavy firepower to subdue the Davidian compound.



Now that's an interesting take on what happened in Waco.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:47:17 AM EDT



i'd like two things to happen.

1) i'd like someone to ask that group how this matters at all since uzi's and ak47's were allowed back on the streets last fall, and then see what their answer is.

2) i'd like someone to hack their site and put the REAL information in where it belongs.


Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:52:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Four officers were killed and twenty were wounded in the ensuing firefight. (Many other Branch Davidians were killed by their own gunfire.) Koresh's followers had access to a much larger arsenal than the two North Hollywood bank robbers, and it required the government to bring in an army of federal agents and very heavy firepower to subdue the Davidian compound.



Now that's an interesting take on what happened in Waco.



Yes...a VERY interesting take.

If you ask me, machineguns are only dangerous in trained hands, just like any gun.
How many rounds expended during the North Hollywood Bank Robbery?
How many police/citizens killed?
Hmm..............
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:05:19 AM EDT
All of those crimes listed happened AFTER the machine gun ban. So what's been acomplished.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:06:36 AM EDT
What's funny is that most if not all of the examples of illegal firearms in the possession of criminals happened AFTER the bad on machine guns. If they get them and use them after the law is in effect, what's the point?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:31:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Praetorian55:
What's funny is that most if not all of the examples of illegal firearms in the possession of criminals happened AFTER the bad on machine guns. If they get them and use them after the law is in effect, what's the point?



A wise man is this one. Strong in the fu is he.

Ever thought about running for office? You've got my vote.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:36:05 AM EDT
I like how they list all the cases where an illegal machine gun was used illegaly.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:40:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By atrophis:
I like how they list all the cases where an illegal machine gun was used illegaly.



Will you please stop introducing common sense? You're going to confuse them and then they'll introduce another law banning illegal machine guns used illegally.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:56:09 AM EDT
If they don't like him, I'm all for him.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:58:18 AM EDT
"On February 28, 1997, bank robbers Larry Eugene Phillips, Jr. and Emil Dechebal Matasareanu turned North Hollywood, California into a war zone. During a botched robbery of a Bank of America, in which they wore body armor and carried fully automatic machine guns (with a trunk full of spare ammunition clips and additional machine guns in their getaway car), they ended up engaging in a massive firefight with police."

So THATS where all the machine guns and spare clips have been hiding since the AWB ended.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:33:58 AM EDT
This morning on "Fox & Friends" the trio were talking about Alito's many skills and how he was an expert marksman.

Steve starts explaining to Brian (who is fooking clueless) how you can shoot two clays with a shotgun when Brian chimes in "you need a machine gun to do that."

E.D. (bless her) says that when she was creating scrapbooks for her kids the first thing she put in were their targets from their first time at the range.

Gotta love that TX girl!
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:38:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 6:42:18 AM EDT by Alien]
Yeah, nevermind that legally owned machine guns, just like .50 caliber rifles, are used in 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000­000000000000000% of crimes and all of the machine guns used in the crimes they listed were illegal. What fucking good did the ban do in those instances? Criminals as usual just ignored the law.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:51:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

If you ask me, machineguns are only dangerous in trained hands, just like any gun.
How many rounds expended during the North Hollywood Bank Robbery?
How many police/citizens killed?
Hmm..............



yep it is a intresting compare and contrast to Platt and Mattox in Miami in 1987 with a couple of mini 14s and some infantry training
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:02:45 PM EDT
Well it's a damn good thing he didn't succeed or those N. Hollywood bank robbers would have had machineguns. er.. wait

How annoying. The NRA needs to launch more advertising aimed at this ridiculous crap. I'm tired of the rest of the country being so misinformed about firearms.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:02:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
yeah im betting everyone that list will rush right out with form 1s and a set of prints to the sheriffs office if the 86 ban is struck down
fucktards



Heck, I'll convert my M1 to FA just for the fun of it.

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:04:26 PM EDT
Alito is teh suck!!!11!!!


If ALITO pisses off the Brady's so much He's gotta be good.

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:08:13 PM EDT
Cool...I was wondering how I felt about this guy.

Leave it to the Brady to help me identify friend from foe and to tell me what gun I should buy next.

If not for them I probably wouldn't own a .50 BMG or a FN 5.7mm.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:11:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
yeah im betting everyone that list will rush right out with form 1s and a set of prints to the sheriffs office if the 86 ban is struck down
fucktards



Heck, I'll convert my M1 to FA just for the fun of it.




sorry meant the list of "machine gun owners" in the brady crime list

yes i too would submit a form 1 for almost everthing i own
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