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Posted: 4/30/2009 5:52:34 PM EDT
Do you have to stop? Are you being detained()? Do you have to answer any question? Can they search your vehicle? At a sobriety CP, do you have to present your ID? What about a Border Patrol CP?

A source would also be appreciated.

p.s. I mean a Border Patrol CP inside the country, not at the border.

p.p.s. It is taking my browser FOREVER to load pages, WTF is going on?
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:12:12 PM EDT
I did some research on Border Patrol internal check points and the short story is you do have to stop, which the SCOTUS has determined is a seizure in United States v. Martinez-Fuerte, 428 U.S. 543 (1976) but is ok because it's small and for the greater good. But for a search they need the following -

Extended Border Search
The border search exception may be extended to allow warrantless searches
beyond the border or its functional equivalent. Under the “extended border search”
doctrine, government officials may conduct a warrantless search beyond the border
or its functional equivalent if (1) the government officials have reasonable certainty
or a “high degree of probability” that a border was crossed; (2) they also have
reasonable certainty that no change in the object of the search has occurred between
the time of the border crossing and the search; and (3) they have “reasonable
suspicion” that criminal activity was occurring.47 This three-part test ensures that a
suspect still has a significant nexus with a border crossing so that border officials can
reasonably base their search on statutory and constitutional authority and to ensure
that the search is reasonable.48

From - http://wikileaks.org/leak/crs/RL31826.pdf
(a congressional report which can also be found here - http://opencrs.com/collections/

As to sobriety check points, I have not looked into that.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:13:01 PM EDT
jump out and do the robot.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:22:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By xaaronx:
jump out and do the robot.



That hit me as just plain funny!  
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 12:47:26 AM EDT
Sobriety Checkpoints are pretty much going to be governed by the Motor Vehicle Codes, Search and Seizure Laws and case law in each state.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 12:51:07 AM EDT
USBP are police officers who mainly patrol around border areas..

they can pull you over for speeding, arrest you for anything illegal, etc..

i don't get why people don't think they are police officers
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 12:54:54 AM EDT
Does your state require you to carry a driver license when operating a motor vehicle?  I'm guessing you are required to show the nice officer your DL at a sobriety CP if asked.

Brian
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 12:59:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
USBP are police officers who mainly patrol around border areas.

they can pull you over for speeding, arrest you for anything illegal etc..

i don't get why people don't think they are police officers


No they can't
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 1:09:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TXGunnersM8:
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
USBP are police officers who mainly patrol around border areas.

they can pull you over for speeding, arrest you for anything illegal etc..

i don't get why people don't think they are police officers


No they can't


BP can't make traffic stops?  Seems like an odd thing to restrict.

Brian

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 1:12:31 AM EDT
Oh..I think I will just tag this one to see where you all decide to take it.

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 1:13:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By TXGunnersM8:
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
USBP are police officers who mainly patrol around border areas.

they can pull you over for speeding, arrest you for anything illegal etc..

i don't get why people don't think they are police officers


No they can't


BP can't make traffic stops?  Seems like an odd thing to restrict.

Brian



What I mean is they can't enforce state traffic law. They are not state certified peace officers and the Federal Government can not enforce traffic code.

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 1:32:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
Oh..I think I will just tag this one to see where you all decide to take it.



Link Posted: 5/1/2009 1:37:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TXGunnersM8:
Originally Posted By brian4wd:
Originally Posted By TXGunnersM8:
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
USBP are police officers who mainly patrol around border areas.

they can pull you over for speeding, arrest you for anything illegal etc..

i don't get why people don't think they are police officers


No they can't


BP can't make traffic stops?  Seems like an odd thing to restrict.

Brian



What I mean is they can't enforce state traffic law. They are not state certified peace officers and the Federal Government can not enforce traffic code.



They can do a traffic stop on anyone that is threatening the safety of the public.  It is not their main duty and they typically avoid it, however, if they see someone weaving all over the road, hitting curbs, blowing through red lights, etc. they are entitled to light that vehicle up and hold them until local or state leo's show up.

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 2:29:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TXGunnersM8:
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
USBP are police officers who mainly patrol around border areas.

they can pull you over for speeding, arrest you for anything illegal etc..

i don't get why people don't think they are police officers


No they can't



whatever you say

i've seen many a ticket written by USBP to speeding PGS employees on r286


Link Posted: 5/1/2009 11:30:24 AM EDT
At Sobriety CPs, Do you have to take a breathalyzer test?
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 4:54:57 PM EDT
At sobriety checkpoints, you do not technically have to take a Breathalyzer test.  That being said, if the officer can substantiate through observation of probable intoxication, further verified by fsb's you can be given the choice of taking the test, or being automatically assumed intoxicated if you do not take the Breathalyzer test (after failing the fsb's).  

So, technically, in most states, you do not have to take the Breathalyzer test, if the officer can make a case that you are intoxicated without it, then it doesn't really matter if you do or do not.  How do you think that they arrest people for driving under the influence of illicit drugs?  Breathalyzer tests only work on alcohol (duh), but you can get a DUI from driving while high on coke too, and that is based purely on observation of behavior of the driver (which will most likely be backed up by a blood test after arrest).
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 5:04:03 PM EDT




Originally Posted By TXGunnersM8:

What I mean is they can't enforce state traffic law. They are not state certified peace officers and the Federal Government can not enforce traffic code.



You may be right, you may be wrong.  It really depends on the state you're in.



In New York, Border Patrol Agents, as well as CBP Officers are Peace Officers.  



Link Posted: 5/1/2009 7:01:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fla556guy:
At sobriety checkpoints, you do not technically have to take a Breathalyzer test.  That being said, if the officer can substantiate through observation of probable intoxication, further verified by fsb's you can be given the choice of taking the test, or being automatically assumed intoxicated if you do not take the Breathalyzer test (after failing the fsb's).  

So, technically, in most states, you do not have to take the Breathalyzer test, if the officer can make a case that you are intoxicated without it, then it doesn't really matter if you do or do not.  How do you think that they arrest people for driving under the influence of illicit drugs?  Breathalyzer tests only work on alcohol (duh), but you can get a DUI from driving while high on coke too, and that is based purely on observation of behavior of the driver (which will most likely be backed up by a blood test after arrest).


AFAIK, in all states the evidentiary BAC test - breath or blood - required under the implied consent portion of a DL is conducted AFTER a driver is arrested.  If you are not under arrest, you can refuse the preliminary alcohol screening (PAS) device, any other FST's and/or answering any questions and the officer will base his decision to arrest (read as PC) on his observations up to that point.

Brian
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 12:23:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
USBP are police officers who mainly patrol around border areas..

they can pull you over for speeding, arrest you for anything illegal, etc..

i don't get why people don't think they are police officers


That's because a lot of guys around here don't bother to think.  Apparently if they think here they can't think later in that amount.

As far as dealing with State Laws, as usual that depends on the state.  And guys here make the assumption that their fuzzy at best understanding of the laws in their state automatically must apply to all the other states.  No matter how many times, it gets pointed out here, that concept never sinks in.

For example in CA (not relevant code sections trimmed for brevity)  In other words in almost all circumstances a Border Patrol Officer is a Peace Officer or could also make a Private Person's Arrest.  You might also note in some states a private person can't make an arrest.  Again different states different laws.

830.  Any person who comes within the provisions of this chapter and
who otherwise meets all standards imposed by law on a peace officer
is a peace officer, and notwithstanding any other provision of law,
no person other than those designated in this chapter is a peace
officer.  The restriction of peace officer functions of any public
officer or employee shall not affect his or her status for purposes
of retirement.


830.8.  (a) Federal criminal investigators and law enforcement
officers are not California peace officers, but may exercise the
powers of arrest of a peace officer in any of the following
circumstances:
  (1) Any circumstances specified in Section 836 or Section 5150 of
the Welfare and Institutions Code for violations of state or local
laws.
  (2) When these investigators and law enforcement officers are
engaged in the enforcement of federal criminal laws and exercise the
arrest powers only incidental to the performance of these duties.
  (3) When requested by a California law enforcement agency to be
involved in a joint task force or criminal investigation.
  (4) When probable cause exists to believe that a public offense
that involves immediate danger to persons or property has just
occurred or is being committed.
  In all of these instances, the provisions of Section 847 shall
apply.  These investigators and law enforcement officers, prior to
the exercise of these arrest powers, shall have been certified by
their agency heads as having satisfied the training requirements of
Section 832, or the equivalent thereof.

836  covers ALL the circumstances of the whens hows and whys of an arrest by a peace officer, suffice it to say, it is way too long to include here.  Look it up if you want to.

837.  A private person may arrest another:
  1. For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence.
  2. When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not
in his presence.
  3. When a felony has been in fact committed, and he has reasonable
cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.

847.  (a) A private person who has arrested another for the
commission of a public offense must, without unnecessary delay, take
the person arrested before a magistrate, or deliver him or her to a
peace officer.
  (b) There shall be no civil liability on the part of, and no cause
of action shall arise against, any peace officer or federal criminal
investigator or law enforcement officer described in subdivision (a)
or (d) of Section 830.8, acting within the scope of his or her
authority, for false arrest or false imprisonment arising out of any
arrest under any of the following circumstances:
  (1) The arrest was lawful, or the peace officer, at the time of
the arrest, had reasonable cause to believe the arrest was lawful.
  (2) The arrest was made pursuant to a charge made, upon reasonable
cause, of the commission of a felony by the person to be arrested.
  (3) The arrest was made pursuant to the requirements of Section
142, 837, 838, or 839.

5150 noted above is involuntary commission of a person that is a danger to themselves or others.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 12:24:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AgentDavis:
At Sobriety CPs, Do you have to take a breathalyzer test?


Depends on the state.  In most, probably not until after you fail FSTs or other indicators.  Practicality comes in to play.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 1:15:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TXGunnersM8:
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
USBP are police officers who mainly patrol around border areas.

they can pull you over for speeding, arrest you for anything illegal etc..

i don't get why people don't think they are police officers


No they can't

Twice I've seen the BP here in WA stop someone for speeding.  Both times they called a WSP (Washington State Patrol) car to write the ticket.  Both times I was waiting to get into Canada so I got to see the entire stop from start to finish.z

Link Posted: 5/2/2009 1:58:20 AM EDT
Am I being detained? Am I free to go?

I'm not a tinfoil owner, you have nothing to fear unless you're an illegal and drunk.

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