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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 7/16/2008 4:57:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2008 10:34:52 PM EST by richkrajewski]
Okay, I'm back. This may sound dramatic, but "Kangaroo" sent me.

I'm in the research stage of writing a book about civilian militias, and I'm looking for input.

So many books out there already focus not on the value of militias or their right to exist, but on possible associations with conspiracy theories, UFO's, you name it.

All that is besides the point, to me, over the more fundamental issue of what militias are.

In the book, I'm trying the make the point that militias are valuable to a free society and should exist, regardless of any current controversy, good or bad. They exist as checks to potential problems and potential abuses. That's all that matters.

So, I'm writing about their history, their current state, and their possible future. And it's a scary future.

It would help to have some input, and maybe some criticism of the manuscript before it's published, which hopefully will be soon (two to three months, if I'm lucky).

Thanks for reading.

-- Rich
richkrajewski, blast all e-mail address web bots, yahoo dot com.

Link Posted: 7/16/2008 11:41:11 AM EST
In before someone calls him a BATFE agent.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:19:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By brianf31:
In before someone calls him a BATFE agent.



He's a BATFE agent!
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:35:18 PM EST
not touchin it
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:56:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 5:05:18 PM EST by safeways1217]
Glad to see you are back. Your project sounds intriguing but, the only Militia I am a part of is the one in my sig line and that is a troop support effort. I would like to see the final product though and I will continue to follow the thread.
sw1217
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 10:22:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2008 10:22:39 AM EST by 223SAINT]
Five-O ^




223SAINT
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 6:59:41 PM EST
Im lost
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 7:11:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/17/2008 10:58:18 PM EST by readytorock556]

Originally Posted By blend708:
Im lost



Guy wanted to write a book on the modern day militia "the unauthorized militia," and wanted our help in background and sources. We all accused him of being ATF or some other agent, at which he bugged out and withdrew his post.

Update: He's back!!
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 4:57:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 5:08:54 AM EST
You mean KangarooAR15-A3?

That guy?

I don't know much about citizen militias but I wish you the best on your project.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 5:06:03 PM EST
Friendly bumpage.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 5:10:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By Deej86:
You mean KangarooAR15-A3?

That guy?

I don't know much about citizen militias but I wish you the best on your project.


Yea, I thought you were writing a book on cougars and assorted internet skanks, what is with the millitia all the sudden

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 5:23:43 PM EST
Look up bed sheet camouflage, home made sterno.

You got the various nut cases and tin foil jobs. They aren't going to talk to you. They make Dale Dribble on King of the Hill look sane.

You got the serious "soldiers" who apparently couldn't give up the Army when they got out. They more or less train to head for the hills for? Mostly to save themselves.

then you got the somewhat serious soldiers, who apparently think they will save their communities. Some are well motivated, and some are involved in other meaningful activities, in search and rescue groups, CERT trained, etc plan to help in emergencies. Hearts in the right places, heads close to the right places.

Most are out in the boonies, planning to protect the corn and wheat fields. Why? because the possibility of making a difference (in their minds) is somewhat possible. The idea of a militia being effective in a city is laughable. A dozen guys can make a difference around a small town. In a City like Los Angeles, it would be too much of a blow to their egos to get ignored.

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 5:35:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 5:36:11 PM EST by readytorock556]
Also what may happen is if some serous shit went down. A guy with respectable military service who is either done his time or has retired may go around with a list and say


<----------sign here!! I can see that happening easy if world altering event took place.



Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:09:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By colklink:

Originally Posted By Deej86:
You mean KangarooAR15-A3?

That guy?

I don't know much about citizen militias but I wish you the best on your project.


Yea, I thought you were writing a book on cougars and assorted internet skanks, what is with the millitia all the sudden


I LOL'd
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:14:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:21:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By richkrajewski:
Okay, I'm back. This may sound dramatic, but "Kangaroo" sent me.

I'm in the research stage of writing a book about civilian militias, and I'm looking for input.

So many books out there already focus not on the value of militias or their right to exist, but on possible associations with conspiracy theories, UFO's, you name it.

All that is besides the point, to me, over the more fundamental issue of what militias are.

In the book, I'm trying the make the point that militias are valuable to a free society and should exist, regardless of any current controversy, good or bad. They exist as checks to potential problems and potential abuses. That's all that matters.

So, I'm writing about their history, their current state, and their possible future. And it's a scary future.

It would help to have some input, and maybe some criticism of the manuscript before it's published, which hopefully will be soon (two to three months, if I'm lucky).

Thanks for reading.

-- Rich
richkrajewski, blast all e-mail address web bots, yahoo dot com.



Look at the Swiss for an example of a real, effective citizen's militia that isn't inhabited by overweight troofers demanding to be called Colonel.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:30:00 PM EST
A consideration of Teddy Roosevelt's organization, and eventual federalization, of the Rough Riders, and the Tillamahook Militia's activities in the Pacific Northwest in WWII, as wel as the NRA'a activities in providing marksmannship training and reloaded rounds for facility guards in WWII as well would be agood start.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:38:51 PM EST
Who is responsible for recruiting, organizing and training citizen militias? Is it some guy who declares himself a Colonel in Colonel Sanders militia? How many can exist within any area? Is every Township, county, voting precinct or block entitled to their own militia? What's to stop my militia from standing against your militia?
Who calls them up? When and why? Who stands them down?

The trouble I have with unorganized militias is that they answer to nobody. They presume themselves to be responsible for local defense and maintaining some kind of order. They assume that they can wield power and use force against the citizenry with no authority or restraint. Nothing more than a gang of thugs with guns.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 6:42:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 6:45:21 PM EST by innocent_bystander]
Arizona Constitution

Article 16

1. Composition of militia

Section 1. The militia of the state of Arizona shall consist of all capable citizens of the state between the ages of eighteen and forty-five years, and of those between said ages who shall have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States, residing therein, subject to such exemptions as now exist, or as may hereafter be created, by the laws of the United States or of this state.

2. Composition and designation of organized militia

Section 2. The organized militia shall be designated "The National Guard of Arizona," and shall consist of such organized military bodies as now exist under the laws of the territory of Arizona or as may hereafter be authorized by law.

3. Conformity to federal regulations

Section 3. The organization, equipment, and discipline of the national guard shall conform as nearly as shall be practicable to the regulations for the government of the armies of the United States.


26-121. Composition of militia; persons exempt

The militia of the state of Arizona consists of all able bodied citizens of the state between the ages of eighteen and forty-five years and all residents of the state between such ages who have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States, except:

1. Persons exempted by the laws of the state or the United States.

2. Idiots, lunatics, totally blind persons and persons convicted of infamous crimes.

3. Judges and clerks of courts of record.

4. State and county civil officers holding office by election, and members of the legislature.

5. Ministers of the gospel.

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 7:35:44 PM EST
Thanks. I was trying to distinguish between the federalized National Guard and the civilian militia, sometimes called the "unorganized militia." I'm reading a book now by Gary Hart called _The Minuteman_ in which he claims the National Guard is the "people's militia," but I don't agree with him, for reasons that I'll explain in the book (as soon as I write it).
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 7:50:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Tim_the_enchanter:
Who is responsible for recruiting, organizing and training citizen militias? Is it some guy who declares himself a Colonel in Colonel Sanders militia? How many can exist within any area? Is every Township, county, voting precinct or block entitled to their own militia? What's to stop my militia from standing against your militia?
Who calls them up? When and why? Who stands them down?

The trouble I have with unorganized militias is that they answer to nobody. They presume themselves to be responsible for local defense and maintaining some kind of order. They assume that they can wield power and use force against the citizenry with no authority or restraint. Nothing more than a gang of thugs with guns.



The Virginia State Defense Force is answerable to and can be called forth by the Governor. They are trained for disaster relief, search and rescue, and assissting the National Guard. While not perfect i would consider the VSDF to be at least a model for other militias. Training and Organization should start at the state level and set standards. Recruiting should be by locality and address concerns of character by setting standards of behaviour. DUI's, Alcoholism, Domestic Violence, Drug usage, etc..should be grounds for dismissal


Unorganized militias that are not answerable to the state are not much more then a mob. Im not really against their existance, simply because its just civilians collaborating together, so its not really feasible to dismiss them without violating people liberties, or appearing Draconic. Unorganized militias of course would never be above the law and should never at any point attempt to enforce laws. Any that would commit a crime such as a lynching should be identified specifically and dealt with by authority figures.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 8:59:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 8:59:48 PM EST by richkrajewski]
Gary Hart's book, _The Minuteman_, made the same distinction between the state and the people. That distinction is true where there is a ruler and the ruled, as in other countries, but if all power is supposed to reside with the people, then saying a militia should be answerable to the state is problematic.

This is a very exciting study to me as I'm getting more and more insight into how people view their role in our Republic.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 7:40:24 AM EST
In Arizona there is an organized and unorganized militia by statute.



26-122. Components of militia

A. The militia is divided into the national guard of Arizona, the state guard when organized, and the unorganized militia.

B. The national guard consists of commissioned officers, warrant officers, enlisted personnel, organizations, staffs, corps and departments of the federally recognized and regularly commissioned, warranted and enlisted militia of the state, organized and maintained pursuant to law, and all members thereof honorably retired by age or disability.

C. The numerical strength, composition, distribution, organization, arms, uniforms, equipment, training and discipline of the federally recognized national guard shall be prescribed by the governor in conformity with the allocation of units to the state by the department of the army and the department of the air force of the United States.

D. The inactive national guard consists of commissioned, warranted and enlisted personnel relieved from assignment to the national guard by the adjutant general, or at their own request, under regulations prescribed by the department of national defense of the United States, and not reassigned to another component of the armed forces of the United States.

E. The unorganized militia consists of members of the militia not members of the national guard or state guard when organized.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:56:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 8:57:50 AM EST by richkrajewski]
height=8
Originally Posted By Deej86:
You mean KangarooAR15-A3?

That guy?

I don't know much about citizen militias but I wish you the best on your project.



He told me to tell you, "Roo sends best. KangarooAR15-A3," and that he's at The Armory.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:08:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By richkrajewski:

Originally Posted By Deej86:
You mean KangarooAR15-A3?

That guy?

I don't know much about citizen militias but I wish you the best on your project.



He told me to tell you, "Roo sends best. KangarooAR15-A3," and that he's at The Armory.
So it was Roo?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:12:08 AM EST
Mark from Michigan

Every Wednesday is "Weapon's Wednesday"
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:12:51 AM EST
How's his attempt to join the Marines going?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:13:44 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
In Arizona there is an organized and unorganized militia by statute.



26-122. Components of militia

A. The militia is divided into the national guard of Arizona, the state guard when organized, and the unorganized militia.

B. The national guard consists of commissioned officers, warrant officers, enlisted personnel, organizations, staffs, corps and departments of the federally recognized and regularly commissioned, warranted and enlisted militia of the state, organized and maintained pursuant to law, and all members thereof honorably retired by age or disability.

C. The numerical strength, composition, distribution, organization, arms, uniforms, equipment, training and discipline of the federally recognized national guard shall be prescribed by the governor in conformity with the allocation of units to the state by the department of the army and the department of the air force of the United States.

D. The inactive national guard consists of commissioned, warranted and enlisted personnel relieved from assignment to the national guard by the adjutant general, or at their own request, under regulations prescribed by the department of national defense of the United States, and not reassigned to another component of the armed forces of the United States.

E. The unorganized militia consists of members of the militia not members of the national guard or state guard when organized.



So I'm learning. Texas also has its State Guard, along with its National Guard.

Allowing the unorganized militia to train itself seems like a matter of basic rights to me. Their reasons for doing so shouldn't affect their rights to do so, as far as I can see, but then again I'm learning more and more about it as I proceed with the book. I'm finishing Gary Hart's related book on the subject, and he said he wants a revival of citizen participation in a "people's militia," but ironically he wants that militia to be controlled by the government, which strips militias of an important safeguard function, because what happens when the government itself steps outside the law? Can only the government define what is within the law? And that leads us to the question, just who is the government? Are we or are we not the ultimate source of power in government?

As a corollary to this, I'm developing an interesting (to me) essay that explores the meaning of representation and accountability, which concerns when a citizenry may feel it is compelled to take arms based on the fading of accountability. The lack of accountability leads directly to a lack of control of the government by not just the people, but by its representatives as well!
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:21:44 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By Deej86:
So it was Roo?


That's what he said.

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:23:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By Deej86:
You mean KangarooAR15-A3?

That guy?

I don't know much about citizen militias but I wish you the best on your project.


[hijack]What happened to him Deej86? You can respond via IM to not derail this thread further. Thanks[/hijack]
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:34:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:38:14 AM EST by richkrajewski]
height=8
Originally Posted By Desdinova721:
How's his attempt to join the Marines going?


I didn't know he was. I met him at LinkedIn.com, and we discovered we share similar political viewpoints. He has access to my resume on that website. In any case, I'm not looking for anyone's personal information. Plus, I expect it will be easier to write other books on this subject once the first one comes out. One of the working titles of the first book is _Extreme Second Amendment: Militias and the Right of the People_, where extreme means full force rather than excessive. The second book has the working title of _From the Field: Militias in Their Own Words_.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:35:39 AM EST
If I remember correctly he was trying to enlist but needed an age waiver and was trying pretty hard to get in.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:20:39 AM EST
Ah, you mean the Disorganized Militia.

States have Organized Militia, (National Guard and State Guard/Reserve by states name), Unorganized Militia, which are the citizens (age and sex as determined by the State Constitution) subject to and when called up by the Governor IAW the State Constitution. The Disorganized Militia are the self-appoint guardians of Truth, Justice and the American Way.

You may think I dislike them, Au Contraire, I like them, they are always good for a chuckle or two.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:35:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 11:44:40 AM EST by justsayin]
I believe there is an AL law legal definition that states if you are a member of a "militia" you are a "domestic terrorist."

Correct me if I am wrong......

Edited for linkage
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:45:38 AM EST
Ohio has an organized militia www.ohmr.oh.gov. We report to the Governor. You may also read about the organization of the unorganized militias Here. Unlike many, I think citizens have every right to organize and train to protect their families and communities. The militia founded this country.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 1:00:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 1:01:19 PM EST by richkrajewski]
height=8
Originally Posted By justsayin:
I believe there is an AL law legal definition that states if you are a member of a "militia" you are a "domestic terrorist."

Correct me if I am wrong......

Edited for linkage


From what I'm learning, some states seem to welcome militias but others don't. I'll investigate the AL situation (I'll be having a state-by-state survey in the book).

Every militia should have a political action committee, it seems to me.... Maybe some do....
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 1:05:51 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By richkrajewski:
height=8
Originally Posted By justsayin:
I believe there is an AL law legal definition that states if you are a member of a "militia" you are a "domestic terrorist."

Correct me if I am wrong......

Edited for linkage


From what I'm learning, some states seem to welcome militias but others don't. I'll investigate the AL situation (I'll be having a state-by-state survey in the book).

Every militia should have a political action committee, it seems to me.... Maybe some do....


By the way, that's an eye-opening website. I'd like to quote some of it in my book if you'll allow it.

-- rich
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 1:11:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 1:14:17 PM EST by richkrajewski]
height=8
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Rob:
Ohio has an organized militia www.ohmr.oh.gov. We report to the Governor. You may also read about the organization of the unorganized militias Here. Unlike many, I think citizens have every right to organize and train to protect their families and communities. The militia founded this country.


Thank you for the link. I appreciate the states that have non-Federalized, but governmental, militias. I think that's a good trend because it keeps the Federal government partially in check. But the ultimate destination of that line of reasoning is to recognize the right of private citizens to train themselves in war, and to call themselves "unorganized," civilian, or constitutional militias as they see fit.
[Edit: I realize that states may just intend to have troops on hand when they are needed internally, such as for natural disasters, and aren't thinking necessarily of states vs. Federal government. Nevertheless, the presence of those state troops helps assure fewer Federal abuses, to my mind.]
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 6:15:08 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By richkrajewski:
height=8
Originally Posted By richkrajewski:
height=8
Originally Posted By justsayin:
I believe there is an AL law legal definition that states if you are a member of a "militia" you are a "domestic terrorist."

Correct me if I am wrong......

Edited for linkage


From what I'm learning, some states seem to welcome militias but others don't. I'll investigate the AL situation (I'll be having a state-by-state survey in the book).

Every militia should have a political action committee, it seems to me.... Maybe some do....


By the way, that's an eye-opening website. I'd like to quote some of it in my book if you'll allow it.

-- rich


The link you sent, which was

http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2007/05/13/you-are-the-homegrown-terrorist-threat/

is truly frightening, the more I think about it. In the book, I will have to more fully explore the implications of being branded a terrorist based on which books you read....

When I started, I presumed the book would be taken as an exploration of one aspect of a citizen's rights, but holy cow! This is serious.

While this issue is closely related to the right to bear arms, it seems to me to affect several other rights as well.

I'll likely finish the book with the information I have, as I don't want to come out with too large a book.

Thanks.
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