I have been looking at a SIG SG550 Sniper rifle completely customized with tactical grips, Adjustable stock and cheekpiece, Leupold scope, and a few more goodies. Does anybody have any good or bad thoughts on it?? Or should I go bolt-action??

Mikie[sniper]

I don't think many people here have one.  I believe Bullocks has a few.  He was RG on the old board.  Tukka might also have coments.

First thought would be, do you have $13,000+ to spend on it???  

Also good luck finding one.  I don't know for sure if any were imported in that configuration.
You might have to buy a Sig550 or 551, (about $8000) and get the sniper kit from Larry at CCF for $5500.

If you have that kind of dough to throw away on a semi auto 'sniper' rifle, I would recommend a PSG1 instead, at least it is a .308 for $13000, instead of a .223 for the same cash.

I've looked at a PSG1 and I like them, I just have to decide what i want. I don't know if I want a semi-auto or a bolt-action, any ideas on a good bolt-action??

Mikie [sniper]

I hate to sound condescending, but I recall on an earlier thread that you said you were still in high school.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a $13000 rifle sounds a bit ambitious for a high school kid.  

But if you have that kind of dough as a youngin', more power to you.

For a lot less money, a Rem 700 PSS, or LTR in either .308 or .223 should do the job just as well.

But again, if you have lots of cash, there is a near endless world of options with some good custom bolt actions.

If you want real long-range accuracy, the bolt gun is the way to go.  Fewer variables to screw with when reloading.  For an econo-sniper rifle, I'm looking at the FN Special Police Rifle available from Fulton Armory [url]http://www.fultonarmory.com[/url].  It's $800, but looks like a hell of a deal.

Of course, that means I have to scrape up $800 for a rifle and another $800 for a scope & rings.....

[sniper]

Most of it's coming from the signing bonus from the air force and the rest i'm gonna earn at work. Yep, still in high school.

Mikie

If you got the cash take it.  If not, a good bolt action is like 1/4 price you are paying.

Browning BAR Stalker w/B.O.S.S.-C.R. and a $hitload of accessories and ammunition would cost a helluva lot less money than $13,000.
BROWNING BAR: [url]http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/bar/bar.htm[/url]
BROWNING BAR STALKER:
[url]http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/bar/bar_stalker.htm[/url]

Before you start howling too much, check out the Arms Tech Ltd Super Match Interdiction Rifle at about a third of the price of the SIG.
It's a .300 Win.Mag. "SUPER BAR".
If you saw a picture of it, you'd probably like it. I'll have to make do with the civilian version...

I couldn't find a link to Arms Tech Ltd, but here's the address I came up with:
ARMS TECH LTD
5133 N. CENTRAL AVE PHOENIX AZ, 85012
Voice: 1-602-264-2173   Fax: 1-602-272-1922  

Good Luck.
Don't blow a wad for nothing!

Mikie,

It really is not my place to say, but you can get an excellent rifle for a lot less than 10 to 13k.

Why not spend 2-3K on an excellent rifle, and put the rest into a nice mutual fund or something for later on.  At least that way you can have a down payment on a house or college later in life.

Save early, save often, and let your money work for you.

I appologize for the lecture, and it's your choice, but dropping 13K into a semi-auto sniper rig just seems like a hell of a lot when it can be done so much cheaper!  Might I suggest a Barrett!  At least then you have range too.

The FN special police rifle looks pretty good for that price. Can't beat .28" grouping at 100 yards. Anymore Ideas anyone?? I did think I was goin a little overboard for a rifle at first and I really was. I've been readin on a bunch of bolt-actions like the Robar sr-60 and the  sr-90 but I don't know.

Mikie

You aren't SteyrAUG's long lost son, are you???
Just a joke.

If that's the case, I would recommend the 700PSS with a nice scope and you will spend well under $2000.  The rest of the money you can either save for your future (college, car, family, house, etc...) or spread out into other guns.

I don't know what sort of collection you already have, but 13k could buy you a lot of nice black rifles if you spread it out.  Hell, I don't even have a PSG1, but I have well over 13K investing in other HK guns.  I would not trade all my HKs for a PSG1.

Don't mean to but into your business, but spending 13K on one rifle would not be my first recommendation for someone getting out high school in a year or two.

But it's your money, so enjoy it as you wish.

I'm takin all of your advice seriously so keep it comin. So far I've heard FN special police in .308, Remington 700ss, and a few others for well under a sg550 price. Heck, i could get all of them for the sg550's price and still have money left over.

Mikie

LOL!

Yeah...You must be a world class rifle shot to need a gun like that.

My REM-700 in 300 Mag with 125 gr handloads is my primary precision gun. Free Floated, acraglased, and NECOlapped.
Will keep pace with any "custom" gun on the planet.

I take my $400.00 Howa PCS in .308 with a little custom work and regularly kick the shit out of dudes with Sako's and Rem 700's, Savages or anything else they can throw at me.

It isn't the gun. It's the shooter. 100% of the time.
Period.My advice is buy a good 300 mag, a reloading press, and tons and tons of ammo and geet to be a shot worthy of a SIG-550.

(BTW- That dude who reccomended the Browning A-Bolt with the BOSS system has taste. It's my next purchase.)

Like HKocker said, I'm still a youngun so I'm still not as smart as some riflemen. Thanks folks for the posts.

Mikie

I like you.

To begin with, I recomend a Howa PCS (Police Counter Sniper) in .308--
They sell for a whopping $450-500 Retail,
and are as accurate as guns 3X as expensive.
With a little custom work (Free floating, glass bedding, rail-way polishing, all which you can do yourseld if you are skilled with basic hand-tools) they are 100% viable as a serious entry level Snipers Rifle.

I can print dead point of Aim 5 Shot Cloverleaf looking groups at 100 with mine.
Like I said. My .300 Mag with 125 NBT's is my baby....
But I wouldn't hesitate to take my heavy barreled HOWA on any job I had to do.

I've found a HOWA PCS for $299. that I kinda like. See if it weren't for you kind people, I would have spent a fortune for a rifle when I could get one that outshoots it for not even an 10th of the price of the other.

Mikie

Semi-autos are not good for snipers because you risk giving your position away by the ejecting brass. When sniping you shouldn't be firing more than 2 shots in one location before moving which is another consideration. Semi/full autos are carried by spotters in the event that close contact occurs.

$299 for a PCS!!!
WHERE!!!!

I'm not sure it's a PCS bt it's at www.auctionarms.com and go to search for HOWA and it'll have a list. It's an auction site as you can tell but the guns are new or very rarely used.

Mikie

I second that, if you must spend the money.

[url]http://www.specialoperations.com/Weapons/Light_Fifty/default2.html[/url]

This bad boy, heck yeah, i would go for that. Is it legal?? That's not a sniper rifle, that's a tank killer!!

Mikie

$299.00 is about Par for a standard Howa Sporter...But they aren't PCS's.
Don't get me wrong. I own a Howa sporter in .270 in addition to my PCS, and frankly, it'll shoot Sub-MOA all day...
Here it is..

[IMG]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/012/NM/eQ/52/Q718746.jpg[/IMG]

If you are looking to learn Sniping Tactics, like engaging multiple abstract targets, the heavy BBL of the PCS helps.
BUT, you also have to learn fieldcraft, doping, intangiables like the "cold barrel shot", ranging, ....Blah Blah Blah.

It isn't easy, but a PCS is an OUTSTANDING platform to start with..

i can't find a pcs, Yours is a beautiful piece of work. If i could find one, i might be able to see if I like it and maybe buy it. Got any links??
Mikie

Hey Mikie,

It's good that young men like yourself are still into the shooting sports.  I don't know what YOU consider a sniper rifle, but as for the semi-auto vs. bolt gun problem, I may have some help for you.


1. What do YOU consider the role of a sniper?
[sniper]

If you take the rather narrow Marine doctrine of sniping, where there is to be a single, well-placed shot from long range that will neutralize the intended target (ie: "one shot, one kill"), then go with a bolt gun.  Bolt guns are GENERALLY more accurate, but not as versitile.

If you take a broader definition of the sniper's role, where you engage any number of targets, often at less than maximum range, and often engaging materiel targets (which may need a greater number of hits to effectively disable), then go with a semi-auto.  Semi's allow you to make shots of opportunity that you may miss with a bolt gun (due to the manipulation of the bolt).

2. Will you have support from other men/troops, etc.? [heavy]

If your intention is to use this gun as a lone operator, then go with the seni-auto.  It keeps you from having to carry a secondary rifle or relying on a pistol if you are moving and make contact with the enemy.

If you have supporting infantry, then the bolt gun is probably your best bet, because you can take your time and you might as well have a weapon that is as accurate as possible.

3. What is the intended range? and what is your maximum range? [rail]

If you can't shoot 1 MOA, then why the F%ck buy a rifle that can pull 1/4 MOA instead of 1/2 MOA?  McUzi is right (oh my GOD! we're all doomed now [:O], if you can't USE it, then why buy it.  It's like the guy who bought an Indy 500 car and can't handle it after 100mph.  Make sure that you can shoot to the limit of your gear before trying to get something better.


Neither is better, per se, than the other.
However, the semi-auto will give you much more versitility than the bolt gun, and most sniping work in a police or non-military setting is under 100 yards, so the extra accuracy gained from a bolt gun is a relatively moot point, as either gun has more than enough practical accuracy to engage targets past 300 yards.  

If you want this for shooting groups and "playing sniper" (not making fun of you here), then either one is fine.  The bolt gun may impress you a little more with its accuracy, but if you want a gun that fits the role of the sniper in a modern sense, then go with a good semi-auto in something that is affordable to shoot, like the 7.62x51 NATO.

My picks in a semi-auto would be:

Springfield Armory M1A (maybe accurized)
DSArms FAL
Armalite AR-10

These are all rock-solid guns.  Not to belittle the HK's, but I like something with a more sturdy reciever.  The M1A is probably, and arguably, the best of the breed for you, if not for any other reason, for the fact that it does not have the "evil" pistol grip, which would allow you to mount a flash hider (unless in PRK).  Also, the M1A is pretty close to the old M21 that was one of the "sniper" rifles used in vietnam to great effect.

Good choice of Leupold optics, as they are good without being too pricey.

Hope this helps you out,

Urban

strokinya!

Okay, here's an "update". Earlier today, I talked to deputy from a neighboring county that was in SWAT for a while. He's gonna get a sniper from their SWAT team to start meeting with me so we can start little training sessions. So I think I might go with McUzi's idea of the HOWA PCS with some customization and a good scope, maybe from leupold and try it out for a while.

Mikie

IMHO
I have a M1A1
And it kicks like a mule!
My HB izzy Fal
Is"IMHO
A better shooter overall.
There it is there!

Skip the PSG-1.  They are terribly overpriced.

If you want REAL long range accuracy, go to www.biggerhammer.net and look at the .50 Barrett discussion boards.  Do a search on "triggerfifty".  

For the kind of money you are talking, I would get an EDM Arms Windrunner in .50 and then get one in .408 Chey-Tac. when it hits the market.  Then you have two EXTREMELY effective long range firearms.  Get a good Nightforce NXS scope for each and you have a top of the line setup.


For all the readers of this, the guy who posts as "triggerfifty" is a long range shooting expert, who literally wrote the book on .50 caliber hard target interdiction.  Go over to the boards and read for yourself what the .408 Chey-Tac is capable of.  

AFARR

How much is the barrett?? I've heard about it from many people, but noone has given an exact price.. I don't think I'll get one right now, maybe in the future, b/c if i take a .50 cal to meet with a cop, he might not like it too much.

Mikie

Dude, really. Seriously.
50 BMG's are about as practical as job advertisments in the welfare line.
They may have some use, but it's more a novelty.
Don't get me wrong. I want one so bad I can taste it.
But unless you have access to a 1000 yard Range, you will never really get a chance to put the gun to it's practical use.

Besides. Material Target Interdiction and "Sniping" are two different things.
Dude, believe me when I say get the $400.00 Howa...
I am a damn good rifle shot, and I know hardware. I've shot it all.
The Howa PCS is a $1000.00 rifle with a $450.00 pricetag.

Can you send me anymore pics of your HOWA?? I like it alot. It looks similar to a SR60 but with 1/3 the pricetag. I think I've made up my mind on it and I'm pretty sure I'll get it. Do you know where a site is on the PCS?? thanks.

Mikie

Mikie,

Barretts run:

M99 (Single Shot Bolt gun)--$2600
M95 (Bolt action repeater)  $5500
M82  (Semi-Auto)            $7500

Other .50's to look at--
Armalite AR-50 $2400
State Arms $1800
Serbu $2000
AMAC  $3000


Those prices are generally without optics, and in most cases, without bipods.  

McU is somewhat correct in that the .50 is a limited use gun.  But it is FUN.  Think about it--if you bought a .50 and a Remington PSS or similar bolt gun, you would have a short range and a long range gun (for a hell of a lot less money than the PSG-1).  I still stand by the Chey-Tac advice though--it looks like the new standard for 2000+ yard shooting.  

AFARR

If you are still looking at semi autos DPMS makes a few guns that will outshoot all but the best of us. Their panther bull models have been tested to shoot under .3" groops, and the gun is under $1000 before tax, scope, clips, ammo (reloading press and supplies if you actually want that kind of accuracy). But man do the semi autos look cool. Their panter extreme has a huge barrel and the whole gun looks pretty amazing.

Don't be a stupid kid( I say this with respect) Take your air force check and put it in a mutual fund and when you come out you will have a lot of money. You can buy a rifle and have money left over. 13 grand on a rifle, no way get a 800 or 1000 plus a scope and have fun. Invest the money. Invest the money. I hope this sinks in!!!

It did, everybody has worked on changin my ways, and it worked. I'm gonna look at a Howa PCS or a Remington 700PSS or LTR and a good high powered scope.

Mikie

I took a nice HK-91 and made a PSG1-forgery:
- HK-91 (IB date code)
- PSG1 stock    
- PSG1 trigger-group    
- PSG1 pistol-grip    
- wide target forearm      
- light bipod    
- port buffer    
- carry handle      
- 1200-meter sight
- claw mount w/1” inserts    
- paddle magazine release
- Swarovski ZFM 10x42T Scope    

[img]albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=258760&a=10577068&p=46196521[/img]

how much is a sighning bonus

It depends on what area you are going into and for how long. I'm hoping to get at least $8,000 b/c I'm probably gonna go for 8-12 years and go to officer training school to be a security officer but it varies.

Mikie

Hey drfcolt, nice rifle.  When your all said and done, how much did that set-up cost you, if I might be so bold as to inquire?

No way man!  I just got out of the Air Force and the most you can enlist for is six years.  The kids that were joining as 2W151's (weapons loaders) were getting about $16,000 and two stripes for six years.  Even then you don't get the cash up front.  You get half after you reach your first base and 1/3 of that goes to taxes.  Of course all those dumb asses blow their cash instead of putting it in a mutual fund and retiring a millionaire.  I'd rather shoot a $400 rifle now and get the PSG1 in 20 years after I retire.

but that's just me, a stupid door gunner, what do I know?

[size=3]MIKIE, You will go to[url]www.SpringfieldArmory.com[/url] where you can get a loaded M1A and they will give you a
Springfield Armory scope and mount for free.
You will practice practice practice. You will
become the fiercest anti-sniper in the world.
Snipers will wet themselves at the mention of
your name. Women will succumb to your glance.
[smoke]

Mikie, listen to Matt S.  You’ll thank yourself latter.

Sitting Bull, here's a break-down:
HK-91 - 2,000
PSG1 stock - 550
PSG1 trigger-group - 365
PSG1 pistol-grip - 165
wide target forearm - 65
light bipod - 150
port buffer - 125
carry handle - 35
claw mount w/1” inserts - 400
1200-meter sight - 140
magazines (1) - 50
paddle magazine release - 60
Swarovski ZFM 10x42T Scope - 900

Pretty close to $5K

And, how's it shoot compared to when it was stock?  Just curious....

DG84

I will also have to say the Browning BAR bolt action with the boss,

Ive got one to hunt deer and elk with in 30-06 its actually a stainless stalker II which has the stainless barrel and synthetic stoc which personaly i think feels and looks great but other hunters seem to frown on it because its not wood but when it starts raining and snowing there all looking at me going out with my rifle while they tip toe around with there wood stocked blued rifle worryed about rust. Mine also has the original BOSS with the muzzle brake in it its very easy to tune in the rifle comes with a book that shows calabers and loads you just set it to your calaber and load and then start fine tuning it to fint the sweet spot which i coluld never find because im not that damn good it is by far way more accurate than i am and im a fairly decent shot its currently got a 4 power leupold scope on it and there the best ive dropped it in the snow 4 times now and its never lost its zero never fogs up its great. you may want to go with a BOSS-CR the CR stands for conventianal recoil it doesnt have the muzzle brake wich you would probably like because the muzzle blast from my rifle is pritty bad and my ears ring for quite a while and the blast seems to come back and hit you in the face which doesnt bother me but has bothered others who have shot it. also may i recommend the 300WSM you get 300 mag ballistics in a lighter mountain type rifle its on my to buy list probably work really well for what you want anyways sorry for the long post others have made good sugestions too i too wouldnt spend 13k on a rifle i also have friends going into the airforce and most of them blow there money mostly on new cars and such its just stupid i am also in high school still i know what its like i currently drive 10k Nissan pickup its great i like it but i pay payments every month and i pay out the ass for insurence io make it every moth cause i have a decent job but i sure cant afford to go tear it up like my frends do with there $500 pickups that are 5 colers and are geting bigger tires and new parts all the time in other words buy a cheaper rifle yull use it more like it better and get more practice with it

doorgunner84,

I got it with the scope on it and it shot about 1 1/2" groups at 100-yd. Typical I heard for a stock HK-91. I don't know.

Added PSG1 stock, trigger, grip and it's consistantly sub MOA at 100-yd, plus it's much more confortable to shoot. The PSG1 stock is very nice - totally adjustible. PSG1 trigger is very nice, too. MUCH better than the stock trigger. Similar to installing a good trigger in an AR.

Made most of the changes over the winter and haven't moved out to 200-yd or further, yet.

This is using Black Hills 168-gr match ammo.

Don't know if the accuracy can be improved more without some serious upgrades (barrel, ...).

I got an e-mail from a guy that's working on a barrel-stabalizer for the HK-91. I guess that's one of the problems with the HK-91, bad harmonics. PSG1 has everything stiffened up and a longer match-grade barrel (and also cost $12K).

Fun to shoot and a real head-turner.

Haven't tried the 1200-meter sight.

Other stuff is just for dress.

Got about every option for an HK-91.

For a Bolt action.....Try a TIKKA M595 SPORTER in .308 .  Out of the box....it'll shoot under 1/2 moa....it you can do your part.. Best of all..they are only about $725.00

My .02

Enjoy

Why not, with a rifle that you know really shoots then you know all you have to worry about is you yourself improving. Of course, I would not spend 13k on a rifle. (Unless Bill Gates dies and will me all his money.)

I bought a Remington 700 ADL Synthetic, stripped everything but the action, recoil lug and trigger off the action. I got a heavy barrel for it, trued up the action and recoil lug, then bedded it into a McMillan A4 stock and slapped a Springfield scope with GG&G rings on top of it. At this point the scope is probably the weak link, not mentioning my lacking shooting skills. ;)


I agree, it's just aquestion of how big a step your taking. ;)


I'm 27 and I wish I started saving sooner!


We need to get Bill Gates into shooting, that would be some good PR for the rest of us. ;)


I would NEVER buy a Barrett semi. The Swedish army bought a bunch of them and now we can't use them anymore - the sears are too F**king soft. Of course if you want a gun that might slamfire on you - hey, that's the way to go. I also don't like the feel of them, and the muzzle brake flat out sucks (sure, it does it's job, but it'll kick up all the shit around you like nothing else - dead give away of your location.) I'd go for a McMillan 50 or maybe a Robar (the robar actions, muzzle brakes, and stocks are manufactured by the McMillan family - stocks by McMillan Fiberglass Stocks and the actions and muzzle brakes by McMillan Bros. Rifle Co.)