Body Armor Question

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Posted: 11/15/2005 11:31:37 AM EDT

Any civilian types here own and /or use body armor ? if so what make did you go with.

Also, Is it true that some are trying to outlaw the ownership of body armor by civilians?

Any info or comments are appreciated.

Posted: 11/15/2005 11:38:39 AM EDT

[#1]

Yes

American Body Armor, level IIIA

They try, nothing has passed.

Posted: 11/15/2005 11:42:46 AM EDT

[#2]

I'll have to post a pic of my newest set up!

Posted: 11/15/2005 11:46:04 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Yes

American Body Armor, level III

They try, nothing has passed.

I didn't know ABA made "level III"?

I've got a IIIA concealable vest and Level IV plates. After NOLA it doesn't seem the least bit excessive to me.

ABA/Safariland is good.

Posted: 11/15/2005 11:48:40 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

I didn't know ABA made "level III"?

I've got a IIIA concealable vest and Level IV plates. After NOLA it doesn't seem the least bit excessive to me.

ABA/Safariland is good.

IIIA, you are right.

Posted: 11/15/2005 11:50:53 AM EDT

[#5]

Body armor must be banned for the children.

Posted: 11/15/2005 12:04:07 PM EDT

[#6]

so with plates, will a rifle bullet to an area not protected by the plate(except for the head,etc.) be non-fatal?

Posted: 11/15/2005 12:10:13 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
so with plates, will a rifle bullet to an area not protected by the plate(except for the head,etc.) be non-fatal?

absolutely not! rifle bullets will zip right through soft armor...thats the whole point of adding the plates

Posted: 11/15/2005 12:12:01 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
so with plates, will a rifle bullet to an area not protected by the plate(except for the head,etc.) be non-fatal?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over?

-Ben

Posted: 11/15/2005 12:12:44 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
so with plates, will a rifle bullet to an area not protected by the plate(except for the head,etc.) be non-fatal?

A rifle bullet to an area not protected by the plate will penetrate. If it's from any angle but straight ahead (or behind), it could easily be fatal.

Posted: 11/15/2005 12:18:04 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

so with plates, will a rifle bullet to an area not protected by the plate(except for the head,etc.) be non-fatal?

THe plates are designed to cover the most vital areas, but a non-plate hit could certainly prove fatal.

Posted: 11/15/2005 12:20:46 PM EDT

[#11]

i have a "point blank" i use when im hunting..

Posted: 11/15/2005 12:37:28 PM EDT

[#12]

So what brands would you guys recommend? What vendors give the best prices? What level is comfortable enough to wear and not feel like you're inside a rucksack?

Posted: 11/15/2005 12:40:22 PM EDT

[#13]

If Plan A involves taking multiple hits of .308, I suggest Plan B.

Posted: 11/15/2005 12:41:37 PM EDT

[#14]

Go for something that is 100% aramid (Kevlar or Twaron). Stay away from laminates like Spectra Shield and esp. Zylon.
If you look on Ebay, you can find some Safariland Zero G vest for a good price. Just be sure you get teh "Silver" armor package. It is all aramid. The Gold package is thinner buy not as comfortable and has laminates

Posted: 11/15/2005 1:18:16 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Go for something that is 100% aramid (Kevlar or Twaron). Stay away from laminates like Spectra Shield and esp. Zylon.

Kevlar and Twaron are good. Stay away from ANYTHING Zylon.

Uncovered Spectra isn't so great for a point blank shot with a 44mag, but the stuff has been used for many years as sail material and holds up better than kevlar for that application... so regardless of what's on tacticalforums, I think spectra is just fine.

Posted: 11/15/2005 1:20:56 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
If Plan A involves taking multiple hits of .308, I suggest Plan B.

Some sage advice.

Posted: 11/15/2005 4:04:53 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
If Plan A involves taking multiple hits of .308, I suggest Plan B.

Some sage advice.

+2
I prefer not to opt to get shot, but would like to be prepared just in case.

Posted: 11/15/2005 5:57:45 PM EDT

[#18]

Point Blank Level III with trama plates. Level II will stop most regular handgun rounds, but not the big stuff. Level III will stop about all handgun rounds including the magnum. Be careful when purchasing online, particularly from something like E-bay. Modern stuff breaks down after about 5 years. Watch dates.

Posted: 11/15/2005 6:02:37 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Point Blank Level III with trama plates. Level II will stop most regular handgun rounds, but not the big stuff. Level III will stop about all handgun rounds including the magnum. Be careful when purchasing online, particularly from something like E-bay. Modern stuff breaks down after about 5 years. Watch dates.

I think you meant Level IIIA. Level III is a rifle plate. And a vest that is properly cared for will last much longer than 5 years. The 5 year number is there for liablity purposes and takes into account severe use and also to get definate reorders. This does not apply to a vest that contains ANY Zylon. The NIJ had decertified all vests that contain Zylon.

Posted: 11/15/2005 6:06:55 PM EDT

[#20]

There was guy (Gecko45) that just duct tapped trauma plates to his bare skin. He even wore those ninja boots that let him go straight up walls.

Posted: 11/15/2005 6:12:41 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
The 5 year number is there for liablity purposes and takes into account severe use and also to get definate reorders.

That sounds plausible. I've been watching these vests on ebay for some time now but have been reluctant to buy.
mcantu, how do you know so much about BP vests?

Posted: 11/15/2005 6:15:45 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
If Plan A involves taking multiple hits of .308, I suggest Plan B.

Posted: 11/15/2005 6:17:41 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The 5 year number is there for liablity purposes and takes into account severe use and also to get definate reorders.
That sounds plausible. I've been watching these vests on ebay for some time now but have been reluctant to buy.
mcantu, how do you know so much about BP vests?

I've been studying armor and armor design (historical and modern) for about 15 years now

Posted: 11/15/2005 6:19:36 PM EDT

[#24]

I am on the same boat as some of the above posters. I don't want to drop $$$ for a vest and have it 'degrade' after only a few years. So what is the scoop on the stability of the vests? Can I expect the same vest I purchase today to stop what it is rated to stop say 20 years from now?

Posted: 11/15/2005 6:19:54 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
I've been studying armor and armor design (historical and modern) for about 15 years now

Do you wear BP armor yourself?

Posted: 11/15/2005 6:25:24 PM EDT

[#26]

Ok, so I do a search for "level IIIA" on ebay and i see the brands described in this thread. Honestly they don't look all that comfortable to wear under your clothes. Are there any brands out there that are favored over the other. I figured there were scores of LEO's here that would have an ~~informed opinion~~. more of a subject matter expert.

Posted: 11/15/2005 6:36:30 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Ok, so I do a search for "level IIIA" on ebay and i see the brands described in this thread. Honestly they don't look all that comfortable to wear under your clothes. Are there any brands out there that are favored over the other. I figured there were scores of LEO's here that would have an ~~informed opinion~~. more of a subject matter expert.

Level IIIA might be too thick if if youre not likely to come up against a 9mm subgun or .44 mag. Level II might be a better choice

Posted: 11/15/2005 7:31:20 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
... Honestly they don't look all that comfortable to wear under your clothes. ...

Nor should they!!

I’ve never seen BA that didn’t have comfort – and heat – issues. These issues are worsened by individuals who want the highest level of protection and greatest area of protection that they can get. The result can be a vest that is very difficult to wear for any period of time – thus you might not be wearing when you suddenly need it!

As already stated, BA apparently degrades with use (and abuse) rather than age (unless made with Zylon, which is plain and simply a defective product). Also, exposure to things like UV light and bleach can degrade some ballistic materials. Some folks have even argued that storing BA folded will weaken it along the fold.

The problem with buying off e-bay is that you don’t know the history of the vest and don’t get to inspect it till after you’ve bought it. And the only way to actually test the effectiveness of a specific vest is to destroy it by shooting it. Plus if you’re not careful you could wind up with a Zylon vest.

Any new non-Zylon BA armor made by any of the well-known manufacturers should be fine so long as the model you’re getting is certified by the NIJ. (NIJ certification is another argument that we can skip for the moment.)

Used is taking a chance but is certainly better than nothing.

Posted: 11/16/2005 5:26:29 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
I am on the same boat as some of the above posters. I don't want to drop $$$ for a vest and have it 'degrade' after only a few years. So what is the scoop on the stability of the vests? Can I expect the same vest I purchase today to stop what it is rated to stop say 20 years from now?

You can if you just go with a plate carrier with HARD armor plates. Plus, it's not that expensive. I run a SO tech callahan carrier with Kejo armor plates. the whole set up was a little over $300 and it will last a long time. The downside is you don't get much side protection.

Posted: 11/16/2005 6:34:40 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
I am on the same boat as some of the above posters. I don't want to drop $$$ for a vest and have it 'degrade' after only a few years. So what is the scoop on the stability of the vests? Can I expect the same vest I purchase today to stop what it is rated to stop say 20 years from now?

www.bulletproofme.com/Bullet_proof_Vests_Catalog.shtml#Police_Surplus

"“NIJ tests failed to demonstrate any significant differences in 10-year-old armor, regardless of the extent of use or apparent physical condition”

“The warranty exists solely to limit the manufacturer's liability on the product and is not a reflection of the anticipated service life of the product.”

...Guide to Police Body Armor, National Law Enforcement and Corrections Technology Center (NLECTC) "

Posted: 1/16/2006 4:54:18 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
If Plan A involves taking multiple hits of .308, I suggest Plan B.

Now that was a blast from the past! I wish I had saved that thread...

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