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Posted: 3/29/2002 8:45:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Military doesn't wear body armor they wear flak jackets. They are not bullet proof. Reporters could be wearing anything. Hopefully explosives so there can be a few less of those worthless liberal reporters in the world.
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Posted: 3/29/2002 8:58:10 PM EDT
[#2]
I was told that the kevlar helmets could stop a bullet. anyone know for sure?
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Posted: 3/29/2002 9:08:56 PM EDT
[#3]
The K-pots don't stop 5.56, I've seen one chewed to hell by an A2 at 50 or so yards, just as a demo. Most of our protective gear is designed to stop fragments and shrapnel and will not stop bullets. An exception is the RBA or Ranger body armor, with the plates installed it can supposedly stop all sorts of stuff.
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Posted: 3/29/2002 9:09:25 PM EDT
[#4]
I've heard that some of the stuff they're wearing in afghanistan has ceramic plates in it..it might be new or specialty..body armour changed three times while I was in...its probably done at least that since i left
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Posted: 3/29/2002 9:15:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Military doesn't wear body armor they wear flak jackets. They are not bullet proof. Reporters could be wearing anything. Hopefully explosives so there can be a few less of those worthless liberal reporters in the world. You're wrong. The military is wearing body armor now. The Point Blank Level IIIA Interceptor vest. MOLLE pouches can be attached directly to it, and it can accomodate a front and back level IV trauma plate. |
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Posted: 3/29/2002 9:25:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Some of the Special Ops are now wearing body armor.
The Marines are wearing Point Blank "Interceptor" body armor now in Afghanistan. It's NOT a flak vest, it'll stop 7.62 NATO rounds with the hard plates installed. Without the hard plates installed, it still has a NIJ Level IIIA protection. [url]http://www.pointblankarmor.com/interceptor.html[/url] [url]http://www.pointblankarmor.com/armytimes_article.html[/url] [url]http://www.usmc.mil/news98.nsf/b924eaf296063ec58525657e0051062a/3ad2dbfd71f48b7a852566d300663e5c?OpenDocument[/url] PASGT Kevlar helmet will stop most pistol calibur projectiles.[url]http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/pasgt.htm[/url] [url]http://www.itoa.org/Helmet/article.html[/url] |
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Posted: 3/29/2002 9:26:32 PM EDT
[#7]
when is the synthetic spider web armor supposed to be out? army scientists said it would be the lightest ever, and the strongest.
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Posted: 3/29/2002 9:49:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Well some spec ops guys might be wearing it but it's not issue yet. Since most of the guys over in Afnukeistan are spec ops they very well could be.
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Posted: 3/30/2002 1:55:20 AM EDT
[#9]
We have refered to our flak jackets as "body armor" since at least 1989. The term body armor just means something that gives more protection than either the human skin or a cammie blouse, not something that stops bullets. The interceptor is now being issued to army troops that will go in harms ways and all Marines in divisional units.
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Posted: 3/30/2002 6:12:17 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Some of the Special Ops are now wearing body armor. The Marines are wearing Point Blank "Interceptor" body armor now in Afghanistan. It's NOT a flak vest, it'll stop 7.62 NATO rounds with the hard plates installed. Without the hard plates installed, it still has a NIJ Level IIIA protection. . . [url]http://www.usmc.mil/news98.nsf/b924eaf296063ec58525657e0051062a/3ad2dbfd71f48b7a852566d300663e5c?OpenDocument[/url] From the above news piece: Without the SAPI plates, the vest will stop a 124 grain, 9 mm round traveling at 14,000 feet per second, said Church WTF!! |
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Posted: 3/30/2002 6:29:24 AM EDT
[#11]
LMAO!!!!! Thats the Hornady 9mm +P+P+P+P+P+P+P+P+P+P+P+P+P+P+P+P+ rounds.
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Posted: 3/30/2002 8:20:22 AM EDT
[#12]
9mm at 14,000 fps? Think about the recoil on that baby! What's the muzzle energy on that?
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Posted: 3/30/2002 8:47:10 AM EDT
[#13]
I'd LOVE to see the armor that would shrug off a 14,000 FPS strike from a .357 diameter 124 grain slug.. "And this is where we attach the wheels, try not to fall over please.."
Meplat- |
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Posted: 3/30/2002 9:18:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Yes they showed one of those vests on the news the other night, the soldier stated that the vest saved him when he was hit with a 30 cal round. They showed one of the plates that had stopped the round and it was bulged out on the back.
By the way how much of the body do the plates cover, do they just cover the center mass or do they have plates that cover the lower portion of the body like the belt line. It seems like if you feel that they have the plates installed then all you need to do is aim a little lower and gut shoot them. With a nice ballistic tip round that would be a nasty and painful wound. |
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Posted: 3/30/2002 9:23:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Yes they showed one of those vests on the news the other night, the soldier stated that the vest saved him when he was hit with a 30 cal round. They showed one of the plates that had stopped the round and it was bulged out on the back. By the way how much of the body do the plates cover, do they just cover the center mass or do they have plates that cover the lower portion of the body like the belt line. It seems like if you feel that they have the plates installed then all you need to do is aim a little lower and gut shoot them. With a nice ballistic tip round that would be a nasty and painful wound. |
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Posted: 3/30/2002 9:51:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Some of the Special Ops are now wearing body armor. The Marines are wearing Point Blank "Interceptor" body armor now in Afghanistan. It's NOT a flak vest, it'll stop 7.62 NATO rounds with the hard plates installed. Without the hard plates installed, it still has a NIJ Level IIIA protection. [url]http://www.pointblankarmor.com/interceptor.html[/url] [url]http://www.pointblankarmor.com/armytimes_article.html[/url] [url]http://www.usmc.mil/news98.nsf/b924eaf296063ec58525657e0051062a/3ad2dbfd71f48b7a852566d300663e5c?OpenDocument[/url] PASGT Kevlar helmet will stop most pistol calibur projectiles.[url]http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/pasgt.htm[/url] [url]http://www.itoa.org/Helmet/article.html[/url] Thanks for all the info. |
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Posted: 3/31/2002 1:55:41 AM EDT
[#17]
The Interceptor body armor & SAPI plates do show up on eBay from time to time.
SAPI boron carbide plates cost twice as much as the Level IIIA vest alone ($800-$1000). The SAPI plates increase the vests protection to NIJ Level IV. I linked an eBay picture showing how large an area that the SAPI plates cover, compared to the vest. They cover a larger area than what you would expect. They only add about an additional 8 lbs to the 8 lbs vest. [img]http://abacus.sj.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_484e223ecb6d37159234f8bb5/i-1.JPG[/img] (picture may not last long, since it's linked to an eBay service.) Body Armor 101: [url]http://www.pointblankarmor.com/nij_ratings.html[/url] The SPEC OPS guys like to wear the [b]Special Operations Forces Equipment Advanced Requirements (SPEAR)[/b] system. The SPEAR stuff also shows up on eBay, very rarely though and very expensive. [url]http://www.sbccom.army.mil/products/cie/SPEAR_BALCS.htm[/url] This a great page to see all the different body armor systems out there. [url]http://www.specwargear.com/armor&vest.html[/url] |
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Posted: 3/31/2002 2:08:02 AM EDT
[#18]
[red]SAPI Plates[/red]
[img]abacus.sj.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_a77388ece648b2f13ece5ef2/i-1.JPG[/img] |
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Posted: 3/31/2002 5:13:55 AM EDT
[#19]
As a matter of fact the USAF Security Police are also wearing the interceptor vest, and while they are rather bulky it's nice knowing you have "real" body armor that will stop a 7.62 instead of the "old" ranger style level III vests that we were issued.
Quoted: Some of the Special Ops are now wearing body armor. The Marines are wearing Point Blank "Interceptor" body armor now in Afghanistan. It's NOT a flak vest, it'll stop 7.62 NATO rounds with the hard plates installed. Without the hard plates installed, it still has a NIJ Level IIIA protection. [url]http://www.pointblankarmor.com/interceptor.html[/url] [url]http://www.pointblankarmor.com/armytimes_article.html[/url] [url]http://www.usmc.mil/news98.nsf/b924eaf296063ec58525657e0051062a/3ad2dbfd71f48b7a852566d300663e5c?OpenDocument[/url] PASGT Kevlar helmet will stop most pistol calibur projectiles.[url]http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/pasgt.htm[/url] [url]http://www.itoa.org/Helmet/article.html[/url] |
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Posted: 3/31/2002 7:03:54 AM EDT
[#20]
As far as what the Kevlar helmet will stop . . . or the effects thereof . . .
A former 82nd MP buddy of mine says that during the Panama invasion (he took part) some guy was hit in the head with a round. The helmet stopped the bullet, but the force of the bullet hitting the helmet broke the guy's neck and killed him. Perhaps there is a CIB from Panama in this board that can verify this story . . . |
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Posted: 3/31/2002 10:02:30 AM EDT
[#21]
No offense JPPJ, but the story you were told sounds strikingly similar to the old (Hollywood-esque) 12 guage blasting someone off their feet and through a wall behind them when shot.
If the bullet struck a protective helmet hard enough to break a guy's neck, wouldn't it have broken the arms and/or shoulder of the guy who fired it? |
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Posted: 3/31/2002 10:17:43 AM EDT
[#22]
oh newtons law or something like that, I think a rifle round that stopped and transmitted all its energy into a helmet would break someones neck.
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Posted: 3/31/2002 10:24:04 AM EDT
[#23]
I do remember seeing a guy on the news during panama who was shot in the head with a AK, he lived, with just a cut scalp and chin. They showed where the AK round hit him in the center front of the helmet, it penetrated but it also tumbled. He was dazed, got a concussion, but it could have been a lot worse and the credit was given to the helmet.
The injury to the chin was from the strap, the helmet didn't stay put, it was ripped off his head. Thing is, I have seen ads for helmets now, same pattern as the US Kevlar, but made of Spectra, and other materails that are supposedly ClassIII. |
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Posted: 3/31/2002 10:56:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Again, it wasn't "my" story, only one that was relayed to me by a veteran of the 82nd, who was performing MP duties during the Panama invasion.
[:)] |
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Posted: 3/31/2002 11:02:23 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: As far as what the Kevlar helmet will stop . . . or the effects thereof . . . A former 82nd MP buddy of mine says that during the Panama invasion (he took part) some guy was hit in the head with a round. The helmet stopped the bullet, but the force of the bullet hitting the helmet broke the guy's neck and killed him. Perhaps there is a CIB from Panama in this board that can verify this story . . . IIRC, the guy was on his back, wounded, and he was shot point blank by a Panamanian regular. The round glanced off the side, forcing the guys neck to take the energy, and tore the hell out of his neck muscles. He lived, and the round was stuck in his helmet. I believe somebody says it's on display at Ft. Bragg. |
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Posted: 3/31/2002 4:39:37 PM EDT
[#26]
My grandfather tells me that during WW2 they never strapped the steel pot on, they just tossed it on like a hat. They didn't strap it because there were supposedly (remember this is soldier scuttlebut) men killed when shockwaves from explosions would rip the helmet off, but break the guy's neck in the process. Without strapping it, the rumor was that the energy of a striking fragment or shell concussion would just knock the helmet off.
My grandfather swore by the pot, it saved his life a couple of times, so he told me. |
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Posted: 3/31/2002 7:19:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Thats what my dad said too. When they were in combat zones they would tuck the chin straps in. He said they more worried about blasts taking their heads off. They did show a marine in Afghanistan that took a couple of AK rounds in his chest. He thought he wasdead becasue it didnt hurt. He said the rounds were embeded in his armor. The bad guys were also several hundred yards away.
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Posted: 3/31/2002 7:23:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Thats what my dad said too. When they were in combat zones they would tuck the chin straps in. He said they more worried about blasts taking their heads off. They did show a marine in Afghanistan that took a couple of AK rounds in his chest. He thought he wasdead becasue it didnt hurt. He said the rounds were embeded in his armor. The bad guys were also several hundred yards away. Yeah but he also had a interceptor with Level IV plates in. So they didn't have to be THAT far away. |
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