Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 1/17/2015 7:20:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/17/2015 7:44:37 PM EST by sheldonap90]
Blacksmithing to coal or not to coal.

I want to get into it but i know gas is easier to start with but it only seams right to do it with coal.



Suggestions?




Edit


Also whats a reputable place to get a not Chines shit anvil, i mean have access to RR rail but i want a real anvil.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:21:48 PM EST
Black smiting?



Is this is a Mike Brown thread?
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:22:38 PM EST
#blacklivesmatter

Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:25:58 PM EST
Get an anvil

First 2 posts had me
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:27:24 PM EST
Coal gets ficking hot

Go for it
I'm watching
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:29:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/17/2015 7:30:43 PM EST by 1Andy2]
Waste motor oil burner.

Free fuel and the convenience of gas.

Also, it's a form of recycling, so the environmentalists will love you for it.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:31:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By sheldonap90:
Blacksmithing to coal or not to coal.

I want to get into it but i know gas is easier to start with but it only seams right to do it with coal.
http://www.saveourskills.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/blacksmith-fire-small-550x220.jpg


Suggestions?
View Quote

I decided to get into learning how to blacksmith and went the way of the olden days, right now im using lump hardwood charcol instead of actual coal so i can practice my heat control both in the metal and the fuel itself. And lump hardwood is pretty cheap
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:33:28 PM EST
Coal if you can find enough of it. Kingsford charcoal works almost as good. Stock up on it when Lowes or Home Depot has it on sale.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:33:55 PM EST
Be a real hero and take an old cast iron bath tub, crush it up into small pieces, and amend it to make crucible steel.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:36:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/17/2015 7:37:20 PM EST by Tuckahoe64]
I use coal. But if you really want to be hardcore, go charcoal.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:37:00 PM EST
I went to Antique Gas and Steam Engine Museum in Vista, CA just before Christmas. The black smithing exhibit had a sign: Dear Santa, I've been bad. Send COAL.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:37:40 PM EST
Coal.

Coal is king.

Then again, I'm biased since I heat my home with coal.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:38:24 PM EST
I use coal. Gas is much easier. I have access to cheap or free coal, so it makes sense to use it. I hope to fire up the forge tomorrow.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:40:57 PM EST
I drive a duramax so coal.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:42:46 PM EST
Coal is too impure. Coke is where it's at. They heat the coat to remove its impurities and to make coke. Stuff burns cleaner after that.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:51:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 4v50:
Coal is too impure. Coke is where it's at. They heat the coat to remove its impurities and to make coke. Stuff burns cleaner after that.
View Quote


And honestly that doesnt matter with a forge.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 7:58:19 PM EST
I'm not an expert or even a dilettante but it depends on what size anvil you want. A 140-160 pound anvil is going to cost you over a grand likely in the 1800 range.

There are some good German and Czech anvils out there.

The harbor freight junk is just that. On the blacksmith websites they call those things ASO's. Anvil shaped objects, other than the outline they have nothing in common with a good anvil.

I was eyeballing a 120ish pound anvil from Germany. It was on sale for a bit under a grand. Solid forged and not cast with welded forged surfaces.

Used is another story, condition condition condition. At least $3 a pound for one in decent shape.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:03:04 PM EST
Lump charcoal is cheaper than coal if you can make it yourself.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:11:09 PM EST
Coal.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:14:17 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By johnbrown1856:
Coal.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:15:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DieselEngineer:
I went to Antique Gas and Steam Engine Museum in Vista, CA just before Christmas. The black smithing exhibit had a sign: Dear Santa, I've been bad. Send COAL.
View Quote
Heh, yeah, they're a good group of guys.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:20:51 PM EST
I knew this lab manger who decided to grab the
leftover coke from the testing. One morning he
threw in two handfuls into his steel stove. Went to
shower and get ready for work. Got out of the
bathroom and the house was full of smoke.

Turns out the coke got hot and melted through
his stove and the floor. If you want hot get coke
or find some cannel coal.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:24:08 PM EST
You are going to want wood, charcoal, and coal around. What kind of forge do you have?
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:32:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/17/2015 8:34:28 PM EST by JAD762]
Coal gives you less scale, gas gives a better regulated heat.

When using coal you've got to wait a while to get a good lump of coke going, gas is light & go.

Coal gets hotter if you're wanting to forge weld, gas is easier to source.

We've got both in our shop. The gas forge gets used the most.

ETA - go to trade fairs to get your anvil. That or check craigslist regularly. You can get a good deal, but you have to wait for them.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:35:22 PM EST
All coal is not created equal. I like low sulfur myself. 9 times out of ten 10 coal is overkill for a home forge. The only time I have really needed it was for folding leaf springs from an old C70 into axe heads. As far as an anvil, I got both of mine from craigslist, and had to drive over 200 miles for one of them. You also do want a piece of rail. The curve is perfect for a surprising number of things. Get at least one anvil with a center hole. A large piece of oak tree cut about 3 feet long is the best thing I have ever put an anvil on.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:41:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 4v50:
Coal is too impure. Coke is where it's at. They heat the coat to remove its impurities and to make coke. Stuff burns cleaner after that.
View Quote


If you're properly building the fire around your firepot / forge pit, you'll have what is basically a ring of coal that is being converted to coke at all times. That coke is fed into the fire and used to put heat into the workpiece.

A proper forge runs hot enough to make its own coke from coal.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 8:43:52 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tuckahoe64:


And honestly that doesnt matter with a forge.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tuckahoe64:
Originally Posted By 4v50:
Coal is too impure. Coke is where it's at. They heat the coat to remove its impurities and to make coke. Stuff burns cleaner after that.


And honestly that doesnt matter with a forge.

Better have a good blower/bellows then. The heat must be hot enough to melt the steel. The impurities can slow down the heating process.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 9:09:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DieselEngineer:
I went to Antique Gas and Steam Engine Museum in Vista, CA just before Christmas. The black smithing exhibit had a sign: Dear Santa, I've been bad. Send COAL.
View Quote
Ain't no way they let them burn that stuff in Commifornia.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 9:22:03 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Iliveinatrailer:
You are going to want wood, charcoal, and coal around. What kind of forge do you have?
View Quote



Undecided planning to build a Semi-permanent one tho.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 10:31:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/17/2015 10:33:15 PM EST by ShOcKeRpb]
Gas forges fire quicker and you can start working in minutes. Coal takes a lot longer to get a good heat worked up and a lot more maintenance to keep it clean and hot. Downside, building a gas forge can be more costly than a coal. And fuel cost can be a killer.

A lot of gas forges are made with 20# propane bottles lined with ceramic blanket coated with high temp mortar and heat reflective liner. Burners are the big part. You can roll your own to get in the door, but buying one form a place like Hybrid Burners, will be much more efficient.

Coal forges are the old school, tried, true, cheap, and simple way to do it all. Downside, it's filthy, hungry, and a little temperamental. Coal with a lot of impurities can form a lot of clinkers. And, IT'S HOT!!! You WILL burn your metal in a coal fire if you are not careful and get distracted. It's not if, it's when.

A coal forge can me made from things as simple as an old car brake drum and am A/C blower motor attached to a tee on the bottom of the drum with flex pipe.


The local forge group I'm with is on the grounds of a train yard and museum which operates and maintains old steam locomotive, so coal abound. I am building a gas forge for use at the house since there is a 500gal LP tank on the property.

Gas, once dialed in, you can be working with it in less than 5 minutes and is clean. Coal takes a more effort to keep it stable and dirty, but is usually cheaper.

Coal IS more fun to work with (to me at least) because you are more immersed in keeping things rolling. Gas is better if you want to actually work.

E.T.A. Get both. If you stick with it, you are probably going to find some things you need a coal forge for (large pieces that need a truckload of heat) and some for gas (small pieces that you REALLY don't want to burn up...again).
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 10:36:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 4v50:

Better have a good blower/bellows then. The heat must be hot enough to melt the steel. The impurities can slow down the heating process.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 4v50:
Originally Posted By Tuckahoe64:
Originally Posted By 4v50:
Coal is too impure. Coke is where it's at. They heat the coat to remove its impurities and to make coke. Stuff burns cleaner after that.


And honestly that doesnt matter with a forge.

Better have a good blower/bellows then. The heat must be hot enough to melt the steel. The impurities can slow down the heating process.

Yep, I have pulled clinkers the size of a baseball from a fire that I let be for too long.

Dirty coal = bigger, faster clinkers
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 10:40:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fairplay:
Ain't no way they let them burn that stuff in Commifornia.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fairplay:
Originally Posted By DieselEngineer:
I went to Antique Gas and Steam Engine Museum in Vista, CA just before Christmas. The black smithing exhibit had a sign: Dear Santa, I've been bad. Send COAL.
Ain't no way they let them burn that stuff in Commifornia.
Heheh. Yep, they've been trying to shut them down for years. Still ain't happened. Museum grounds are smaller than they were ten years ago, though. Too damned many folks around here.
Link Posted: 1/17/2015 10:52:16 PM EST
I would start looking in old antique barns and flea markets for a really old anvil. That Is how my dad and I got his. Took us both to get it out.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 7:41:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2015 7:41:52 PM EST by sheldonap90]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gmezz4:
I would start looking in old antique barns and flea markets for a really old anvil. That Is how my dad and I got his. Took us both to get it out.
View Quote



There is one in the shop at the high school from idk how far back, i'm going to go talk to my old shop teacher about buying it from the FFA seeing as they are always in need of money and never use it.


I know its got to be a good anvil i broke many a thing on it while in high school.
Top Top